Beshbalik is working the farm/gold. This gives galley in 17 turns, growth in 23, alphabet in 4. Switching to farm/stone would give galley in 14, growth in 12, alphabet in 6. Better?
In Karakorum, switching from forest to bananas doesn't change time to chariot, but cuts growth from 18 to 9 turns. Of course, we'll have the pigs improved before then.
What do people think about Kufah? Raze it and resettle where we were before, or keep its current location?
We'll get a border pop in Beshbalik in 15 turns but I don't think that will give us the iron. (I think it will just give us the two desert squares next to the iron.) Does anyone know?
What should be our next tech? I suppose that depends on what we can trade alphabet for. We're getting free beakers for Monarchy and Math, so some other civs already have those. We can probably trade for Math, so maybe we should go Monarchy.
I was considering the somewhat unusual step of researching horseback riding ourselves to enable our UU as a next research step, although literature for libraries (and specialists) would improve our research overall.
I had intentionally slowed Karakorum's growth earlier, and forgot to change it back--good call.
My feeling is that, if we can kick Saladin off our island, he may be more willing to accept a cease fire. We need to try (long term) to get to the main island and create some fog to help our allies if we can.
If we go literature, we'll probably want to hold off trading alphabet around for a bit.
I agree about getting to the main island. I think HBR can wait until we have the capability to do that. Maybe literature is the best thing, if we can take Saladin's two cities on our island sooner rather than later.
What's the plan for the next settler? Iron/Rice city? Having swords would be helpful.
260 AD Alphabet is done, started on Monarchy. Start building another chariot in Karakoram. There is a barb archer moving in on Kufah, move in with him in case he gets lucky. Barbs will research Monotheism in 33 turns.
275 AD A galley from Sal with two chariots shows up 1 SE of Kufah. There is also a chariot in Kufah.
290 AD The chariot from Kufah attacks my chariot, which was moving in. It retreats, but then the barb archer kills it, robbing our chariot of the XP.
305 AD There were two chariots in the galley, but now there is only one on the shore. It is sitting on the stone, I whip a chariot in Beshbalik to deal with it.
320 AD The barb archer attacks, reducing the Kufah archer to 2.6. The odds of a chariot and two archers aren't that good, but I'm worried that the Sal archer would promote to CG II. The final archer finally does the deed. I keep the city because it fits in with the other cities that are now here.
335 AD Asoka wants alphabet for peace, even though he is relatively backwards I blow him off.
350 AD When Beshbalik pops it covers the iron! I changed Karakoram from settler to worker. The worker that was around Beshbalik I was moving north to help with the copper, he also had to run when the chariots showed up.
Somewhere in there I agreed to open borders with Isabella.
Once our gold is hooked up again in a couple of turns the research rate should go back up. One worker should head back to the south to hook up the iron. If he makes a road through the jungle then another one could help. I think Kufah should build granary then barracks. There is an archer with two promotions coming, I think he should promote to Guerilla II so he can move on the hills, he and/or the chariot should check out Najran, which has popped its borders. I like the placement of Najran, I think it is a keeper. I think when the settler comes out he should settle the island to the NE. The barbs are researching Monotheism.
Tech when alphabet was discovered:
Game Log:
Spoiler:
Turn 181/660 (215 AD) [10-Sep-2007 16:18:13] Attitude Change: Cyrus(Persia) towards Qin Shi Huang(China), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
Turn 185/660 (275 AD) [10-Sep-2007 16:57:30] Beshbalik begins: Archer (10 turns) Attitude Change: Alexander(Greece) towards Tokugawa(Japan), from 'Pleased' to 'Friendly'
Turn 186/660 (290 AD) [10-Sep-2007 16:59:08] Chariot promoted: Combat I Beshbalik begins: Chariot (10 turns) State Religion Change: Alexander(Greece) from 'no State Religion' to 'Judaism' Attitude Change: Asoka(India) towards Alexander(Greece), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed' Attitude Change: Alexander(Greece) towards Tokugawa(Japan), from 'Friendly' to 'Pleased' Attitude Change: Alexander(Greece) towards Cyrus(Persia), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Turn 188/660 (320 AD) [10-Sep-2007 17:04:44] While attacking in Arabian territory at Kufah, Chariot loses to: Arabian Archer (2.13/3) (Prob Victory: 23.1%) Archer promoted: Combat I While attacking in Arabian territory at Kufah, Archer loses to: Arabian Archer (1.17/3) (Prob Victory: 36.0%) Archer promoted: Combat I While attacking in Arabian territory at Kufah, Archer defeats (1.02/3): Arabian Archer (Prob Victory: 89.5%) Captured Kufah (Saladin) Chariot promoted: Combat I While attacking in Mongolian territory at Beshbalik, Chariot loses to: Arabian Chariot (1.72/4) (Prob Victory: 32.4%) While attacking in Mongolian territory at Beshbalik, Archer defeats (3.00/3): Arabian Chariot (Prob Victory: 93.0%) Karakorum finishes: Chariot
Turn 189/660 (335 AD) [10-Sep-2007 17:32:05] Beshbalik begins: Archer (19 turns) Archer promoted: City Garrison I Archer promoted: Combat II Beshbalik's borders expand
I grabbed the save. I'm up next, right? I can play tomorrow morning if I get enough feedback.
Karakorum has just started building a worker. He can be whipped after one turn. I think I will do so. There's a settler in the queue next, with 62 out of 150 . I think I will let him continue, at least until the copper is hooked up.
I will let Beshbalik finish its galley, if possible. A granary for Kufah seems reasonable.
Qin has alphabet. Should we switch to literature to go for the great library? Unfortunately, we can't trade alpha to anyone.
My priority for the workers will be to hook up the copper, then the stone, then the iron, then build roads between the cities and start chopping jungle. When I have three workers in epic, I usually combine them into a single team.
We'll pop a great prophet during my turnset. I propose to settle him in Karakorum.
The settler will probably also finish; what's his destination? The island seafood city to the NE? The galley should be just about finished by the time he is. (Oh, I see Welnic proposed this destination---I agree.)
I'll probably move the two archers in Karakorum down to Kufah.
I thought that about Toku when I first saw the tech list, mainly because I was surprised that he would have techs available. It turns out it is because we are at war with him.
I think hooking up the stone can wait until Beshbalik can actually work the stone, and I think that will be a while.
Whipping a worker in Karakoram sounds good, there are only two good squares to work in that town anyway.
I think Monarchy is the way to go, it will fix our happiness problems, especially since we have a lot of units hanging around anyway.
My thoughts on the stone were (a) it's on the way to the iron, (b) it's a workable tile and will give us some flexibility on worked tiles even at pop 2, and (c) copper will allow for axes, which I think we need right now more than swords anyway. I expect that the iron will be online by the time we want to build swords even if we hook up the stone first. With three workers, the stone and iron will get hooked up pretty fast once we get there; the main inefficiency is the travel time.
Edit: Of course, if people think this is wrong, say so, and I'll hook up the iron first.
I would look at the situation when you are at the stone, but I think that the first worker there would be better building the road to the iron. I think the second worker there could build the quarry before Beshbalik can grow to use that tile.
I think we need a couple of spears even before axes, since Sal is showing up with chariots.
I agree with the general drift: spears then axes on defense (meaning the copper is top priority, and stone and iron less so in the short term). The seafood island will be a good spot. We may want a second galley in the short term: two galleys have a decent shot of sinking a boat; one usually doesn't.
Pretty uneventful. Hooked up copper. Did the workers a little differently than I planned. Chopped the forest next to Kufah to rush the granary and take advantage of our bonus for being expansive. Built a few more roads than I expected to.
Kufah now building a spearman. Beshbalik is still building the galley. Whipped a worker in Karakorum, let the settler finish (it's currently fortified in Karakorum, waiting for the galley), working on archer now (already had into the archer, thought I would let it finish).
Settled a great prophet in Karakorum.
There's a bit of a situation at Najran. It's guarded by a lone archer and there is a barb sword right next to it. We have three units there, two that can still move, one that can't. The two that can move are the chariot and an archer (the other is an archer). We need to decide if we want to attack before the barb sword does or let the barb sword go first. I'm not sure what to do. Our attack odds are poor, but I think the barb sword's will be decent. I don't know exactly how to calculate the odds though. The barb sword is unpromoted and the defending archer is CG I and has a 20% cultural defense. If the barb takes the city and doesn't raze it, we'll lose that site unless Saladin retakes it.
Turn 192/660 (380 AD) [12-Sep-2007 07:10:21] Mahavira (Great Prophet) born in Beshbalik Attitude Change: Qin Shi Huang(China) towards Asoka(India), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed' Attitude Change: Asoka(India) towards Alexander(Greece), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious' Attitude Change: Cyrus(Persia) towards Qin Shi Huang(China), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious' Attitude Change: Alexander(Greece) towards Cyrus(Persia), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'
Turn 193/660 (395 AD) [12-Sep-2007 07:11:20]
Turn 194/660 (410 AD) [12-Sep-2007 07:12:16] Attitude Change: Alexander(Greece) towards Tokugawa(Japan), from 'Pleased' to 'Friendly'
Turn 195/660 (425 AD) [12-Sep-2007 07:13:04]
Turn 196/660 (440 AD) [12-Sep-2007 07:14:01]
Turn 197/660 (455 AD) [12-Sep-2007 07:16:14]
Turn 198/660 (470 AD) [12-Sep-2007 07:17:05] Karakorum finishes: Settler Kufah finishes: Granary Attitude Change: Alexander(Greece) towards Cyrus(Persia), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Turn 199/660 (485 AD) [12-Sep-2007 07:17:40] Kufah begins: Spearman (11 turns) Civics Change: Qin Shi Huang(China) from 'Paganism' to 'Organized Religion'
If I understand the combat system correctly, and also correctly used the calculator here, the sword should have about a 60% chance of defeating the archer.
If we give our chariot Combat 1, he'll have about an 8% chance of victory.
My vote would be to let the barb sword try to take Najran and hope he either fails or razes the city. I'm afraid if we attack we'll just make it easier for him.
If the swordsman attacks and fails, we shouldn't have any trouble taking the city. If we attack and fail, then the swordsman will take the city for sure. AIs do get an extra bonus against barbs, unless that was taken into account the odds should be better for us than 60%. In any case, 40% is better than our odds of taking the city with a chariot and archer.
We need to root for Sal's archer.
Peace would work if we could get it. We won't have forces ready to take the city for 10 turns anyway.
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. I think I will let him continue, at least until the copper is hooked up.
