Iron Working is less important the more we're at peace with everyone. Barbarian swordsmen won't attack anyone we're at peace with.
SGOTM 05 - Mac Team
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
dr_s
Prince
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2006
- Messages
- 539
But IW allows us to chop jungle which will be very important. It also moves us closer to metal casting (which could be bulbed by the GE from Pyramids, correct?) and forges (+1 
from gold). We may also get lucky and find convenient iron which would make more 
for us, which is important because we are poor.
OTOH, Alpha has advantages too.
from gold). We may also get lucky and find convenient iron which would make more for us, which is important because we are poor.OTOH, Alpha has advantages too.
Welnic
Emperor
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2006
- Messages
- 1,057
I think that it is more important to find out where the iron is and be able to chop jungle than to know what techs the other civs have. I do think it should be the next tech we get. The tech times will start to drop once we hook the gold up. I think that Beshbalik is not really worth doing anything with until Civil Service, we should just work the gold mine.
a_man
no longer a Chieftain
IW instead works too,I figure either points to advantages, and we are trying for a conquest vic.
galleys from Salidin, that would be bad. really bad
we can starve a small city for a good couple of turns while we work all production worthy spots and switch back to food right before we lose a pop point this would be a good idea esp. if we hit our pop cap in one of the citys.
galleys from Salidin, that would be bad. really bad
we can starve a small city for a good couple of turns while we work all production worthy spots and switch back to food right before we lose a pop point this would be a good idea esp. if we hit our pop cap in one of the citys.
Welnic
Emperor
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2006
- Messages
- 1,057
Here is my hand written turn log:
835 BC: Cyrus goes for peace, Asoka wants Beshbalik. I think about it, but don't give it to him.
760 BC: Qin finishes the pyramids. I change Karakoram to granary.
745 BC We get 231 gold for pyramids. Worker at Karakoram finishes horse stables and moves to pigs.
715 BC Stonehenge finishes, Beshbalik starts on worker.
700 BC Beshbalik pops its border, we get 58 gold from hut.
670 BC Karakoram finishes granary and starts on settler.
The worker in Beshbalik finishes next turn. He should chop the forest that he can irrigate. I think the build should be library.
Karakoram is 5 turns from a settler. I think it should pick up the copper. I think the best spot would be 1 SE of the copper. Karakoram should then start on a library.
The island just to the NE of Karakoram could support 5 specialists at size 8. If it is built on the NE tile once the border pops once we could sail to China.
I tried for peace several times with Sal and Asoka, but they didn't budge. After making peace with Cyrus there was only 1 WW unhappiness in Karakoram, but it went back up to 2 at some point.
The game log:
The save:
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm5/Mac_Team_SG005_BC0535_01.Civ4SavedGame
835 BC: Cyrus goes for peace, Asoka wants Beshbalik. I think about it, but don't give it to him.
760 BC: Qin finishes the pyramids. I change Karakoram to granary.
745 BC We get 231 gold for pyramids. Worker at Karakoram finishes horse stables and moves to pigs.
715 BC Stonehenge finishes, Beshbalik starts on worker.
700 BC Beshbalik pops its border, we get 58 gold from hut.
670 BC Karakoram finishes granary and starts on settler.
The worker in Beshbalik finishes next turn. He should chop the forest that he can irrigate. I think the build should be library.
Karakoram is 5 turns from a settler. I think it should pick up the copper. I think the best spot would be 1 SE of the copper. Karakoram should then start on a library.
The island just to the NE of Karakoram could support 5 specialists at size 8. If it is built on the NE tile once the border pops once we could sail to China.
I tried for peace several times with Sal and Asoka, but they didn't budge. After making peace with Cyrus there was only 1 WW unhappiness in Karakoram, but it went back up to 2 at some point.
The game log:
Spoiler :
The save:
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm5/Mac_Team_SG005_BC0535_01.Civ4SavedGame
dojoboy
Tsalagi
Nice Welnic - always a very clean player!
Do we know shift to 10 turns per play? I vote we do, for reasons stated much earleir, but it'll also allow more team input.
Order of Play:
dr_s - up
peter grimes - on deck
dojoboy - warming up
a_man
willpax -
Welnic - just finished
Do we know shift to 10 turns per play? I vote we do, for reasons stated much earleir, but it'll also allow more team input.
Order of Play:
dr_s - up
peter grimes - on deck
dojoboy - warming up
a_man
willpax -
Welnic - just finished
dr_s
Prince
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2006
- Messages
- 539
Missing the pyramids may be problematic, but I guess we just didn't have enough hammers.
I can do 10 turns for the next set, if others agree. I'll do them tomorrow or Saturday once people chime in.
I agree about the placement of the next city. I've made a new dotmap (which I can't seem to attach), showing where I'd put more cities. The main other two locations are 2W of the clams and 1NE of the rice out west. I will put marks on the map at those locations when it's my turn. I agree that copper city should be next, and probably the only other city for a while.
I agree with the worker plan for Beshbalik, but I would build a barracks next. We're aggressive, so that will give us a bonus for the chop. I'm not sure we need a library in Beshbalik now; we won't work specialists there for a long time. Is the 25%
bonus worth the right now? I would put the into military, chariots first, then axes, then galleys.
Should I pop-rush the settler when it's down to a few hammers to create overflow for the library in Karakorum?
That's a great thought about the island NE of Karakorum. Building on the NE tile also gives an extra to the city square; of course we'd lose out on a mine. But I think we'll need to get to China sooner rather than later.
Saladin has a copper tile SW of Medina---it may be his only metal. I vote we build a raiding party (axe, chariot, galley) and go after it ASAP. I see he also has horses as well; we probably need to go after him before he gets HBR.
So, on my turn my plan would be to settle the copper city, hook up copper, mine the hills there. What should be the first build there? Barracks?
We need to figure out a way to get Isabella mad at someone. Unfortunately she has a + diplo bonus with the other civs due to "mutual military struggle". I think this is due to the Iceman civ, unfortunately.
I can do 10 turns for the next set, if others agree. I'll do them tomorrow or Saturday once people chime in.
I agree about the placement of the next city. I've made a new dotmap (which I can't seem to attach), showing where I'd put more cities. The main other two locations are 2W of the clams and 1NE of the rice out west. I will put marks on the map at those locations when it's my turn. I agree that copper city should be next, and probably the only other city for a while.
I agree with the worker plan for Beshbalik, but I would build a barracks next. We're aggressive, so that will give us a bonus for the chop. I'm not sure we need a library in Beshbalik now; we won't work specialists there for a long time. Is the 25%
bonus worth the right now? I would put the into military, chariots first, then axes, then galleys.Should I pop-rush the settler when it's down to a few hammers to create overflow for the library in Karakorum?
That's a great thought about the island NE of Karakorum. Building on the NE tile also gives an extra
to the city square; of course we'd lose out on a mine. But I think we'll need to get to China sooner rather than later.Saladin has a copper tile SW of Medina---it may be his only metal. I vote we build a raiding party (axe, chariot, galley) and go after it ASAP. I see he also has horses as well; we probably need to go after him before he gets HBR.
So, on my turn my plan would be to settle the copper city, hook up copper, mine the hills there. What should be the first build there? Barracks?
We need to figure out a way to get Isabella mad at someone. Unfortunately she has a + diplo bonus with the other civs due to "mutual military struggle". I think this is due to the Iceman civ, unfortunately.
Great job... Too bad about the Pyramids 
I'm fine with doing 10 turns, if that's the consensus.
If another civ is trading a resource with Isabella, pillaging that resource should give Isabella a -1 diplo hit towards the supplying civ. Just a thought.
I'm fine with doing 10 turns, if that's the consensus.
If another civ is trading a resource with Isabella, pillaging that resource should give Isabella a -1 diplo hit towards the supplying civ. Just a thought.
a_man
no longer a Chieftain
pyramids, what else is there to say.....
10 turns is fine
Raiding party is a good idea I say 2 (atleast) Axes (with cover) and 2 (also atleast) chariots with flanking or com1.
i'm gonna look at the save later but still ...... pyramids
10 turns is fine
Raiding party is a good idea I say 2 (atleast) Axes (with cover) and 2 (also atleast) chariots with flanking or com1.
i'm gonna look at the save later but still ...... pyramids
I'm not so sure the raiding party has to be quite as robust as a_man suggests. Clearly, the more the better.. but we have limited resources here. That said, a Medic promotion for one of the units would be wise. And Cover is also good.
But this is really micromanaging on an almost irrelevent level. The next turnset will see us closer to Iron Working, and the buildup of military forces.
We obviously won't be activating promotions until they are needed
But this is really micromanaging on an almost irrelevent level. The next turnset will see us closer to Iron Working, and the buildup of military forces.
We obviously won't be activating promotions until they are needed
dr_s
Prince
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2006
- Messages
- 539
Played my ten turns. Pretty uneventful. Save: here
Founded Turfan SW of the copper, which is being hooked up.
Chopped one forest next to Beshbalik to take advantage of the bonus for being aggressive. Gold is now being mined.
Whipped one pop for the settler to create some overflow for library. Both Karakorum and Beshbalik are building libraries, Turfan building a barracks.
I noticed our WW went up and down for no apparent reason. It's now at +2, so we have one unhappy citizen in Karakorum. That will change once we have gold and the whipping penalty wears off, so Karakorum will be able to grow.
Alex asked for open borders, declined, but I accepteded Qin's open borders. Didn't see how it could hurt. No new opportunities for peace.
Barb cities have gotten border pops due to Stonehenge.
Next up: Peter
Founded Turfan SW of the copper, which is being hooked up.
Chopped one forest next to Beshbalik to take advantage of the bonus for being aggressive. Gold is now being mined.
Whipped one pop for the settler to create some overflow for library. Both Karakorum and Beshbalik are building libraries, Turfan building a barracks.
I noticed our WW went up and down for no apparent reason. It's now at +2, so we have one unhappy citizen in Karakorum. That will change once we have gold and the whipping penalty wears off, so Karakorum will be able to grow.
Alex asked for open borders, declined, but I accepteded Qin's open borders. Didn't see how it could hurt. No new opportunities for peace.
Barb cities have gotten border pops due to Stonehenge.
Spoiler :
Next up: Peter
I'll try to take a look at the save tonight. I will then post my gameplan, and as long as there aren't things to work out, I'll play saturday evening.
dojoboy
Tsalagi
OoP:
dr_s - just finished
peter grimes - up
dojoboy - on deck
a_man - warming up
willpax -
Welnic -
Looking over the save now.
dr_s - just finished
peter grimes - up
dojoboy - on deck
a_man - warming up
willpax -
Welnic -
Looking over the save now.
Oh god, I can't believe what just happened. This turnset was an absolute calamity. I hang my head in shame
For those who want to peek before reading on... here's the save
First of all, I can sum up this turnset in one word: DEVASTATION.
If you think I might be overly dramatic, just look at the screenshot that greeted me on my second turn:
Yup, Saladin just landed 2 chariots, both with Combat 1, one of them also has combat 2 and Shock
Just for kicks, I sue for peace. No deal. This bastard is out for blood.
So what could I do?
We had no units in Turfan, and copper wasn't hooked up yet, so I switched Karakorum to Archers so that we wouldn't lose our capital. Needless to say, the bastards RAZED Turfan. I should have evacuated the worker - I neglected to consider that both chariots could move 2, and so they took our worker.
But then it gets worse!
They razed Turfan, I whipped an archer in Karakorum, but there's no way I can stop their Chariots! They pillage our Horse Pastures, and land a settling party
Again, there's nothing at all I can do about it, so I remain focussed on holding our Capital. Before going back to the library, I opt for a second archer. I really would prefer axemen, but we lost our copper city
Cyrus approached us for Open Borders - I figure "Hey! Everything else is sucking so bad, why not?", and accept. At the same time, the gold mine is completed, and I assign the worker to chop a forest for the library. Mind you, we've still got 20+ turns of to burn through in Karakorum, even after the gold is hooked up.
Finally, on my last turn, I have to choose a research path. I opt for Alphabet. But this can be changed upon the next player's turn. The only positive thing that came out of this turnset:
Yay. We get Iron after the next expansion.
I was really gung-ho about building up a raiding party to go after Alex. But Saladin just smacked us down so hard, I'm not sure how we can recover from this. Hooking up Iron is the next priority, and I think we should beeline for Construction for Catapults.
This one really sucked.
For those who want to peek before reading on... here's the save
First of all, I can sum up this turnset in one word: DEVASTATION.
If you think I might be overly dramatic, just look at the screenshot that greeted me on my second turn:
Yup, Saladin just landed 2 chariots, both with Combat 1, one of them also has combat 2 and Shock
Just for kicks, I sue for peace. No deal. This bastard is out for blood.
So what could I do?
We had no units in Turfan, and copper wasn't hooked up yet, so I switched Karakorum to Archers so that we wouldn't lose our capital. Needless to say, the bastards RAZED Turfan. I should have evacuated the worker - I neglected to consider that both chariots could move 2, and so they took our worker.
But then it gets worse!
They razed Turfan, I whipped an archer in Karakorum, but there's no way I can stop their Chariots! They pillage our Horse Pastures, and land a settling party
Again, there's nothing at all I can do about it, so I remain focussed on holding our Capital. Before going back to the library, I opt for a second archer. I really would prefer axemen, but we lost our copper city
Cyrus approached us for Open Borders - I figure "Hey! Everything else is sucking so bad, why not?", and accept. At the same time, the gold mine is completed, and I assign the worker to chop a forest for the library. Mind you, we've still got 20+ turns of
to burn through in Karakorum, even after the gold is hooked up.Finally, on my last turn, I have to choose a research path. I opt for Alphabet. But this can be changed upon the next player's turn. The only positive thing that came out of this turnset:
Yay. We get Iron after the next expansion.
I was really gung-ho about building up a raiding party to go after Alex. But Saladin just smacked us down so hard, I'm not sure how we can recover from this. Hooking up Iron is the next priority, and I think we should beeline for Construction for Catapults.
This one really sucked.
dojoboy
Tsalagi
I've got the save. Don't beat yourself up PG. Who could've known. We'll survive.
a_man
no longer a Chieftain
That was one unlucky turnset
Ready to go after dojo
Ready to go after dojo
Yeah, it was unlucky. At least I got to watch all the blood and gore from the driver's seat 
I'd love to learn if there was a better way I could have handled it. If anyone would like to replay the turnset, just to try out some alternative defenses, I'd say Go For It! and I'll email you the save...
I'd love to learn if there was a better way I could have handled it. If anyone would like to replay the turnset, just to try out some alternative defenses, I'd say Go For It! and I'll email you the save...
dojoboy
Tsalagi
The chariot north of our capital needs to be dealt with so we can move pur worker up there to connect the horses. Then, we can build some chariots to take out the enterloper in the southwest. Our 2 archers should be plenty, but which promotions should we give. Drill or Combat?
We need to also get some boats in the water and patrol that crossing between us and Saladin.
PG, are there any of Saladin's forces in the fog, between our 2 cities?
If there is enough feedback, I can play tonight.
OoP:
dr_s
peter grimes - just finished
dojoboy - up
a_man - on deck
willpax - warming up
Welnic
PG, I played the save your turnset began w/, and outside of gifting that city to Cyrus there was nothing you could've done. The worker had used it's turn, so you couldn't have him flee either. Gifting the city to Cyrus may have allowed our worker to "pop" outside of Cyrus's city borders = one more tile away from Saladin's chariots.
We need to also get some boats in the water and patrol that crossing between us and Saladin.
PG, are there any of Saladin's forces in the fog, between our 2 cities?
If there is enough feedback, I can play tonight.
OoP:
dr_s
peter grimes - just finished
dojoboy - up
a_man - on deck
willpax - warming up
Welnic
PG, I played the save your turnset began w/, and outside of gifting that city to Cyrus there was nothing you could've done. The worker had used it's turn, so you couldn't have him flee either. Gifting the city to Cyrus may have allowed our worker to "pop" outside of Cyrus's city borders = one more tile away from Saladin's chariots.
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