stuge
Emperor
Seconded.
About the pigs, I think it's worth the six worker turns to build a pasture while Karakorum grows and then mine over it when we wish to stagnate the city.
Crazy anal-retentive MM ftw, yay!
SGOTM 05 - Trash Team
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Seconded.
About the pigs, I think it's worth the six worker turns to build a pasture while Karakorum grows and then mine over it when we wish to stagnate the city.
Crazy anal-retentive MM ftw, yay!
I'd say start building a granary using the mine
1) farming the bananas first,
2) then indeed pasturing the pigs
3) then growing like a weed, working cottages
would be the most efficient anal retentive MM
.Maybe we don't need to whip after all.
pigswill
fly (one day)
Given up trying to get this sgotm going; maybe I need a new HDD and total reload; can play other games anyway.
So I think it would be more realistic to drop out (tho' lurking loyally while ignoring other threads) than maintain indefinite autoskip.
Sorry chaps (though I'm playing v. poorly atm so you ain't mising much)
So I think it would be more realistic to drop out (tho' lurking loyally while ignoring other threads) than maintain indefinite autoskip.
Sorry chaps (though I'm playing v. poorly atm so you ain't mising much)
remconius
Deity
Alright 4 cities is good for now.
There is one more good site to the west of copper site, though. It has a food resource and several grass hills hidden in the jungle. With +4 food it should be able to support 4 grass hills and be potentially one of our best production sites at size 5. We are lacking production.
Let's expand to 4 cities, then build an improvement or two before completing another settler to give us 5 cities. Meanwhil our new cities can build a few workers for cottages and the jungle sweep.
[edit] Sorry to hear you can't join us, Pigswill. Feel free to lurk and if you find the spirit to reinvigorate your civ4 vanilla, you are welcome to rejoin anytime [/edit]
There is one more good site to the west of copper site, though. It has a food resource and several grass hills hidden in the jungle. With +4 food it should be able to support 4 grass hills and be potentially one of our best production sites at size 5. We are lacking production.
Let's expand to 4 cities, then build an improvement or two before completing another settler to give us 5 cities. Meanwhil our new cities can build a few workers for cottages and the jungle sweep.
[edit] Sorry to hear you can't join us, Pigswill. Feel free to lurk and if you find the spirit to reinvigorate your civ4 vanilla, you are welcome to rejoin anytime [/edit]
patagonia
Emperor
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2006
- Messages
- 1,025
Hope you can sort your problems out pigswill.
I've just played an exceptionally uneventful 15 turns. The barbs pillaged a bit, but haven't managed to take any cities unfortunately. I thought they might snag Pasargadae from Cyrus on the last turn, but the AI bonus saved the wounded archer there.
They have founded a city of their own on the main continent though! I vote we consider peace over there once they've got workers built and can start developing - IW will help them get the gems at Delhi online.
Back home, we're 10-11 turns from IW. Horses are online and copper's mined. I finished the worker that was part-built in Beshbalik so we've got one by each city now. The one at Turfan should probably road to the capital so we can get copper online and start cranking axes. Then he can be teamed with the one already there. I'm building a cottage by Beshbalik so the city will have another tile to work at size 3, after which that worker could start the arduous task of roading up the island (we'll want to do that for stone city anyway).
Karakorum's got a granary now and has started on a rax to allow it to grow.
Save.
PS - I know we had some thoughts on AI ineptitude after trying to coach Gandhi to a space win last time, but watching the barb galleys patrol the same 3 squares 15 turns in a row doesn't fill me with confidence where our allies are concerned.
I've just played an exceptionally uneventful 15 turns. The barbs pillaged a bit, but haven't managed to take any cities unfortunately. I thought they might snag Pasargadae from Cyrus on the last turn, but the AI bonus saved the wounded archer there.
They have founded a city of their own on the main continent though! I vote we consider peace over there once they've got workers built and can start developing - IW will help them get the gems at Delhi online.
Back home, we're 10-11 turns from IW. Horses are online and copper's mined. I finished the worker that was part-built in Beshbalik so we've got one by each city now. The one at Turfan should probably road to the capital so we can get copper online and start cranking axes. Then he can be teamed with the one already there. I'm building a cottage by Beshbalik so the city will have another tile to work at size 3, after which that worker could start the arduous task of roading up the island (we'll want to do that for stone city anyway).
Karakorum's got a granary now and has started on a rax to allow it to grow.
Save.
PS - I know we had some thoughts on AI ineptitude after trying to coach Gandhi to a space win last time, but watching the barb galleys patrol the same 3 squares 15 turns in a row doesn't fill me with confidence where our allies are concerned.
remconius
Deity
Roster
Remconius (UP)
cabert (on deck)
Cam_H
Stuge
patagonia (just played)
Lurking
Pigswill
I'll have a look at it tonight and play if all is clear. Otherwise I'll propose a plan.
Remconius (UP)
cabert (on deck)
Cam_H
Stuge
patagonia (just played)
Lurking
Pigswill
I'll have a look at it tonight and play if all is clear. Otherwise I'll propose a plan.
patagonia, from what I can read.Just one thing : we don't want a worker per city improving slowly the tiles, we want to work improved tiles all over the place. This means that fast growing cities should get 4 workers most of the time, and the stacked workers can improve a tile or 2 in slow growing cities when the time is right.
Remco, about the western city, it sure is OK when we have IW and 8 workers to go for it.
pigswill
fly (one day)
If barbs are settling cities independently then it may be worth considering a strategy of razing cities, keeping AIs from resettling through naval action and letting barbs do the settlement.
Do barb city maintenance costs have any effect on us?
Do barb city maintenance costs have any effect on us?
only on the barbs
they may not research anything beyond this point anyway, so it's no big deal.
The razing is not the best option though, because we'll have to wait, and I don't think waiting is a good option.
remconius
Deity
Turn 101/660 (985 BC) [13-Aug-2007 20:20:58]
Civics Change: Isabella(Spain) from 'Tribalism' to 'Slavery'
Turn 102/660 (970 BC) [13-Aug-2007 20:21:47]
Turn 103/660 (955 BC) [13-Aug-2007 20:22:32]
Karakorum grows: 3
Turn 104/660 (940 BC) [13-Aug-2007 20:24:33]
Karakorum begins: Settler (14 turns)
At size 3, settler is prioritized over barracks.
Turfan finishes: Galley
Turn 105/660 (925 BC) [13-Aug-2007 20:26:01]
Turfan begins: Worker (12 turns)
Tech learned: Masonry (FREE from BARBS
Turn 106/660 (910 BC) [13-Aug-2007 20:28:44]
Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards Isabella(Spain), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Isabella(Spain) towards Tokugawa(Japan), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Turn 107/660 (895 BC) [13-Aug-2007 20:29:57]
Beshbalik finishes: Barracks
Turn 108/660 (880 BC) [13-Aug-2007 20:31:52]
Beshbalik begins: Galley (19 turns)
Alexander comes for peace. I deny him until we make a group decision.
Turn 109/660 (865 BC) [13-Aug-2007 20:33:17]
Beshbalik grows: 3
Turn 110/660 (850 BC) [13-Aug-2007 20:36:27]
Tech learned: Iron Working
We have iron.... unfortuantely it's just out of BFC of Beshalik
Turn 111/660 (835 BC) [13-Aug-2007 20:37:52]
Research begun: Horseback Riding (33 Turns)
Turn 112/660 (820 BC) [13-Aug-2007 20:39:26]
Turfan finishes: Worker
Turn 113/660 (805 BC) [13-Aug-2007 20:41:37]
Turfan begins: Barracks (9 turns)
Turn 114/660 (790 BC) [13-Aug-2007 20:43:28]
Turn 115/660 (775 BC) [13-Aug-2007 20:45:48]
Two interesting fishing vilages. They can also act as culture bridge to Qin.
To the west is the easy culture bridge to the continent:
We do have a major problem.... WW is worse than anticipated. Each population causes 2 unhappiness. Beshalik has +3 for "It's too crowded" and one +3 for "War, what is it good for?"
We need to adjust our strategy to deal with this... Either religion, temples and monarchy or theatres with drama.
THE SAVE
Civics Change: Isabella(Spain) from 'Tribalism' to 'Slavery'
Turn 102/660 (970 BC) [13-Aug-2007 20:21:47]
Turn 103/660 (955 BC) [13-Aug-2007 20:22:32]
Karakorum grows: 3
Turn 104/660 (940 BC) [13-Aug-2007 20:24:33]
Karakorum begins: Settler (14 turns)
At size 3, settler is prioritized over barracks.
Turfan finishes: Galley
Turn 105/660 (925 BC) [13-Aug-2007 20:26:01]
Turfan begins: Worker (12 turns)
Tech learned: Masonry (FREE from BARBS
Turn 106/660 (910 BC) [13-Aug-2007 20:28:44]
Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards Isabella(Spain), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Isabella(Spain) towards Tokugawa(Japan), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Turn 107/660 (895 BC) [13-Aug-2007 20:29:57]
Beshbalik finishes: Barracks
Turn 108/660 (880 BC) [13-Aug-2007 20:31:52]
Beshbalik begins: Galley (19 turns)
Alexander comes for peace. I deny him until we make a group decision.
Turn 109/660 (865 BC) [13-Aug-2007 20:33:17]
Beshbalik grows: 3
Turn 110/660 (850 BC) [13-Aug-2007 20:36:27]
Tech learned: Iron Working
We have iron.... unfortuantely it's just out of BFC of Beshalik
Turn 111/660 (835 BC) [13-Aug-2007 20:37:52]
Research begun: Horseback Riding (33 Turns)
Turn 112/660 (820 BC) [13-Aug-2007 20:39:26]
Turfan finishes: Worker
Turn 113/660 (805 BC) [13-Aug-2007 20:41:37]
Turfan begins: Barracks (9 turns)
Turn 114/660 (790 BC) [13-Aug-2007 20:43:28]
Turn 115/660 (775 BC) [13-Aug-2007 20:45:48]
Two interesting fishing vilages. They can also act as culture bridge to Qin.
To the west is the easy culture bridge to the continent:
We do have a major problem.... WW is worse than anticipated. Each population causes 2 unhappiness. Beshalik has +3 for "It's too crowded" and one +3 for "War, what is it good for?"
We need to adjust our strategy to deal with this... Either religion, temples and monarchy or theatres with drama.
THE SAVE
remconius
Deity
Roster
Remconius (just played)
cabert (UP)
Cam_H (on deck)
Stuge
patagonia
Lurking: Pigswill
Remconius (just played)
cabert (UP)
Cam_H (on deck)
Stuge
patagonia
Lurking: Pigswill
Got it.
So what do we do?
I suggest ceasefires (suing for peace isn't going to help right now, no currency, no alphabet) with a few "neighbours", to get WW under control.
If this is agreed on, who do we make peace with?
I'd go for the lowest in score first. Since I suggest ceasefires only, it doesn't matter if we're going after them sooner or later.
So what do we do?
I suggest ceasefires (suing for peace isn't going to help right now, no currency, no alphabet) with a few "neighbours", to get WW under control.
If this is agreed on, who do we make peace with?
I'd go for the lowest in score first. Since I suggest ceasefires only, it doesn't matter if we're going after them sooner or later.
remconius
Deity
I checked at the end of my turnset (What's the price for peace?)
and right now we can only make peace with Alexander. I think we should sign peace with two opponents on the continent, so the barbs can focus their efforts on the third. With Sally and Qin we can also sign peace with until we get round to kicking them off their respective islands.
STRATEGY DISCUSSION TIME!
I think now is also the time to consider the Grand Strategy. In the near future we have to start mass producing military with the goal to never stop.
We can build a culture bridge to Alex, Qin or the continent. Who will be first, second and third? And which units will we be using?
One plan is to go via Alex, assimilate his cities and use them to increase the war production taking the main continent in one go. Alternatively we could go South for Sally, then North for Qin, East for Alex and West for the continent.
QUESTIONS:
Not sure if Alex' land and the continent gives enough for domination.
Not sure if WW let's us go for fast continuous domination.
Not sure if we can keep up with maintenance.
I think Hereditary rule is a must, for happiness.
Is cease fire different than 10 turn peace treaty?
and right now we can only make peace with Alexander. I think we should sign peace with two opponents on the continent, so the barbs can focus their efforts on the third. With Sally and Qin we can also sign peace with until we get round to kicking them off their respective islands.
STRATEGY DISCUSSION TIME!
I think now is also the time to consider the Grand Strategy. In the near future we have to start mass producing military with the goal to never stop.
We can build a culture bridge to Alex, Qin or the continent. Who will be first, second and third? And which units will we be using?
One plan is to go via Alex, assimilate his cities and use them to increase the war production taking the main continent in one go. Alternatively we could go South for Sally, then North for Qin, East for Alex and West for the continent.
QUESTIONS:
Not sure if Alex' land and the continent gives enough for domination.
Not sure if WW let's us go for fast continuous domination.
Not sure if we can keep up with maintenance.
I think Hereditary rule is a must, for happiness.
Is cease fire different than 10 turn peace treaty?
stuge
Emperor
I never thought that WW would be so crippling. Must be because the barb units are dying off like fruit flies.
Here's my two cents:
-Make peace (ceasefire, whatever) with Alex and Sally. Their islands are too small for barb spawning.
-On the big continent, perhaps we should get Izzy fight the barbs alone.
-We must start building the culture bridge to the big continent soon, so drama should be prioritised, perhaps after monarchy. Theaters will also help with unhappiness, once we hook the dyes up. We must get Keshiks over there to stifle the AIs before they get too strong.
-Sally would be good target practise while we strive to reach the big continent. His lands don't look like much but another capital is always welcome.
Here's my two cents:
-Make peace (ceasefire, whatever) with Alex and Sally. Their islands are too small for barb spawning.
-On the big continent, perhaps we should get Izzy fight the barbs alone.
-We must start building the culture bridge to the big continent soon, so drama should be prioritised, perhaps after monarchy. Theaters will also help with unhappiness, once we hook the dyes up. We must get Keshiks over there to stifle the AIs before they get too strong.
-Sally would be good target practise while we strive to reach the big continent. His lands don't look like much but another capital is always welcome.
remconius
Deity
Does anyone know if WW can get bigger than 1 unhappiness per pop?
If this is the max, we know what we are up against --> Each pop needs to be covered by 2 happiness.
If this is the max, we know what we are up against --> Each pop needs to be covered by 2 happiness.
there is no limit to WW
I remember a game with 20+ unhappiness from war, with a population far less than 20.
I'm playing now, and will take every ceasefire available. we can redeclare whenever we're ready to go.
Here it is.
Summary : the barbs are good. We are weak.
Inherited turn : made peace with Alexander.
The others wouldn't stop the fight. let them suffer...
The power graph shows Alex is rather punny, but growing.
I changed beshbalik from galley to granary, easier to whip.
turn 116 : Whipped the granary in beshbalik. Now they're happy
.
turn 117 : Seville falls to the barb. jew holy city
(only saw it afterwards, although I have a screenie from the troops closing in 2 turns earlier.
turn 116 : settler en route to stone city.
turn 117 : mysticism in. thank you barbies.
turn 121? : we found stone city
turn 124 (625BC), we finally have an archer, i switch to a granary (easy to whip!)
turn 126 : granary whipped.
turn 127 : workboat finished in karakorum. I invest 1 turn (overflow) into a worker.
galley finished in beshbalik. I start the pyramids now than the stone is hooked. We desperately need the money (I have no doubt we will miss them, even with a few chops).
Isabella took a city from the barbs in the meantime. Nothing I can do about it.
turn 128 : switch karakorum to axeman. MM to remove every removable hammer : working cottages!
turn 129 : whip kara for 2 pop towards the axe.
turn 130 : our barbaric friends are very useful. the swordsmen take back the city they had lost to isabella and raze damascus!
I suggest moving our troops (present and future) towards saladin. He just took a bad hit, and should be easy picking.
2 galleys full of axemen should do the trick.
I queued an obelisk in a few cities.
We need to keep our population low (2 all over the place/3 in karakorum). This means whipping for 1 pop mostly. In the capital, we can whip for 2 pop.
when beshbalik will be about to grow, switch to an obelisk, let it grow, and whip it.
The WW indeed seems to cap at city size for now.
Summary : the barbs are good. We are weak.
Inherited turn : made peace with Alexander.
The others wouldn't stop the fight. let them suffer...
The power graph shows Alex is rather punny, but growing.
I changed beshbalik from galley to granary, easier to whip.
turn 116 : Whipped the granary in beshbalik. Now they're happy
. turn 117 : Seville falls to the barb. jew holy city
turn 116 : settler en route to stone city.
turn 117 : mysticism in. thank you barbies.
turn 121? : we found stone city
turn 124 (625BC), we finally have an archer, i switch to a granary (easy to whip!)
turn 126 : granary whipped.
turn 127 : workboat finished in karakorum. I invest 1 turn (overflow) into a worker.
galley finished in beshbalik. I start the pyramids now than the stone is hooked. We desperately need the money (I have no doubt we will miss them, even with a few chops).
Isabella took a city from the barbs in the meantime. Nothing I can do about it.
turn 128 : switch karakorum to axeman. MM to remove every removable hammer : working cottages!
turn 129 : whip kara for 2 pop towards the axe.
turn 130 : our barbaric friends are very useful. the swordsmen take back the city they had lost to isabella and raze damascus
!I suggest moving our troops (present and future) towards saladin. He just took a bad hit, and should be easy picking.
2 galleys full of axemen should do the trick.
I queued an obelisk in a few cities.
We need to keep our population low (2 all over the place/3 in karakorum). This means whipping for 1 pop mostly. In the capital, we can whip for 2 pop.
when beshbalik will be about to grow, switch to an obelisk, let it grow, and whip it.
The WW indeed seems to cap at city size for now.
Wow ... good work guys! The Barbarians may be the most cultured tribe yet! 
Pigswill - it would be great to have you back on the roster. I hope you find a solution to this problem.
Stuge - please feel free to cut in before me if you wish. It will be at least two days before I can play.
... although "Grand Strategy" discussion seems like a good idea too.
Pigswill - it would be great to have you back on the roster. I hope you find a solution to this problem.
... although "Grand Strategy" discussion seems like a good idea too.
remconius
Deity
Roster
Remconius
cabert (just played)
Stuge (UP Wednesday or Thursday)
Cam_H (on deck for the weekend)
patagonia
Lurking: Pigswill
GRAND STRATEGY
As cabert proposes, we can hit saladin with 4 axes... That sounds good and is the only feasible plan for now. Let's build some extra axes to serve as reinforcements.
For others we need to build a city to act as culture bridge. The options are:
1. Qin - Tundra base, out of the way of the rest of the world. Although the fishing villages are nice.
2. Alex - Launching platform for the continent.
3. Continent - Biggest gain, and we can support our Barbarian friends with workers, defense, attack.
I am in between 2 and 3. Moving through alex gives us extra cities, whereas plan 3 lands us on the strong side of the Barbarians.
Remconius
cabert (just played)
Stuge (UP Wednesday or Thursday)
Cam_H (on deck for the weekend)
patagonia
Lurking: Pigswill
GRAND STRATEGY
As cabert proposes, we can hit saladin with 4 axes... That sounds good and is the only feasible plan for now. Let's build some extra axes to serve as reinforcements.
For others we need to build a city to act as culture bridge. The options are:
1. Qin - Tundra base, out of the way of the rest of the world. Although the fishing villages are nice.
2. Alex - Launching platform for the continent.
3. Continent - Biggest gain, and we can support our Barbarian friends with workers, defense, attack.
I am in between 2 and 3. Moving through alex gives us extra cities, whereas plan 3 lands us on the strong side of the Barbarians.
Similar threads
- Sticky
