SGOTM 06 - Geezers

[erikthecelt]

I will look at the save tomorrow and post a plan (borrowing heavily from The Hawks notes ) I think I will play 5 + 5 as there is a lot of action going on

 

[Sam_Yeager]

I will look at the save tomorrow and post a plan (borrowing heavily from The Hawks notes ) I think I will play 5 + 5 as there is a lot of action going on

Both ideas sound quite sensible. Looking forward to the plan.

 

[erikthecelt]

Tech - up to 50% CS in 8 turns. Then Metal Casting.
Builds - Cats + a spear for escort duty to bring spears from iron city to the front.
Iron City will complete barracks will start a cat.

Workers to complete mines for London - will chop hill N of London next. Nottingham has been well whipped and will get unhappy citizens this turn set. I think I would like to start a worker there after the completeing the current cat and a second one as Kumbi could use some development as well as iron city. We could be producing a lot more hammers per turn. Any thoughts?

I think the current stack should take out Alex's new city and then move into Hanni's territory - see #1 in the attached map. I think I will accummulate a second stack to go to the hidden Alex city - see #2 and then proceed to take and hold Thebes (alternatively we should have a settler ready to settle after we raise Thebes).

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/106568/plan.JPG

(Plans got changed because of bad weather, so I got a chance for this tonight).

 

[The-Hawk]

I agree a worker or two would be good, especially built in Nottingham which is on the happy cap.

I'd be wary of splitting into two forces. We are going to waste cats on the LB's, don't want to end up with two weak stacks that are too far apart to rejoin. I would keep feeding reinforcements to our one stack. If we get to a point where that stack is too big, then we can think about a second.

One other thought. Thebes is a good city (gold, iron, wheat, flood plains). We have CoL now, probably should consider keeping some of the better cities versus razing all. Anyone have thoughts on that? The more cities we have, the faster we build our army.

If we want to keep cities, I would attack Alex before Hanny (so we don't have exposure on both flanks). If we are razing everything, then it doesn't matter so much.

/Edit: can someone explain what 5+5 means?

 

[Sam_Yeager]

@erik - I feel The-Hawk's thoughts on sticking to one stack and concentrating on Alex have merit. Should we be anticipating any trouble from either Parthian or Cherokee? Bear in mind that Alex might send try a naval landing from Cherokee. That worker on the iron looks somewhat exposed.

@The-Hawk - 5+5 (lifted from CRC team) is the idea of playing 5 turns, reporting back and/or posting the save and then playing another 5 turns. Keeping Thebes looks attractive provided we have enough troops to defend it adequately. It will be an expensive liability if Alex/Hanny can pillage it's improvements with impunity.

 

[markh]

Good to see that still Alex and Hanny are smaller than us. I would agree to stick to one enemy at a time and one big stack. Let us grow the stack and maybe keep Thebes and Athens. With whipped courts they will be good and it will distract Hanny from our core.

 

[erikthecelt]

Given the preference for a single stack, I am going to kill the elephant city (again) and then proceed West to the city in the fog (#2). I do want to let Alex start building elephants. I think the first 5 moves are enough to kill the elelphants and the second 5 will be healing and heading toward that costal city.

EDIT: I am uneasy about the amount of time it will take to get from the elephants to the city in the fog. What do people think about having the current stack head for #2 and the reinforcements taking out the elephant city. The two stacks would then link up at Thebes.

I had noticed the exposed worker but he has a clear field of view and there are units in Iron City that can move to protect him. I'll move an archer out to guard the iron and maybe a spear after the elephants are gone. I'll probably route the reinforcements for the stack through the iron as additional protection.

Nottingham will switch to a worker after it reaches the happy cap and completes the unit it is producing. After the current cat, I'll see whether a spear, archer or cat will finish closest to reaching the cap.

I do covet Thebes, with the gold mine it will cover the additional expense and set us to eventually settle the elephants ourselves.

 

[Sam_Yeager]

EDIT: I am uneasy about the amount of time it will take to get from the elephants to the city in the fog. What do people think about having the current stack head for #2 and the reinforcements taking out the elephant city. The two stacks would then link up at Thebes.

Ok as long as you make sure Iron city has a decent defence between the stack moving away and the reinforcements turning up.

 

[The-Hawk]

EDIT: I am uneasy about the amount of time it will take to get from the elephants to the city in the fog. What do people think about having the current stack head for #2 and the reinforcements taking out the elephant city. The two stacks would then link up at Thebes.

This sounds OK. Elephant city is not really a priority. Might as well get at Alex's core asap.

I had noticed the exposed worker but he has a clear field of view and there are units in Iron City that can move to protect him. I'll move an archer out to guard the iron and maybe a spear after the elephants are gone. I'll probably route the reinforcements for the stack through the iron as additional protection.

Right... the worker can't be nabbed, he can see a threat coming. My thought was to mine the iron to make iron city more productive. There is some risk of pillaging, but I am banking on Alex being a non-factor pretty soon. Once Alex is under pressure, the threat of pillage should go down.

 

[Harbourboy]

I am still here, but don't have anything useful to add at this stage. Don't get killed!

 

[erikthecelt]

I played 5 turns - heading into the fog was a bad decision - there was no city there. It looks like we have to raise Thebes but it will be a challenge as Alex has a small stack approaching.
2 Alex HA's killed, no losses.

Here is the turn commentary:

Pre Turn 1665
Move archer to protect iron worker ( a galley could come out of the fog and grab it)
Move attack stack, Research – 50%
IBT - Parthian archer suicides on ours, Hannibal learns MC, Alex HA appears in the hills above Thebes

Turn 1 (680)
York: cat -- > cat
London Defense Force (LDF) – spears to jungle hills, cat to heal, cat to iron city, York cat to London – Parthian archer promoted Drill 2 – healing
Nott – Move cottage worker to hill for 2 hammers per turn and slower growth (can now produce a cat in less than 5 turns)
IBT – Alex HA to oasis, 2nd HA appears on hill

Turn 2 (695)
Stack moves, spears fortify in jungle hills, workers complete London mine (London grows next turn)
IBT – HA moves next to Iron City, 2nd HA follows

Turn 3 (710)
Stack moves – no city, it must be cultural boundry for Athens
LDF axe – spices (will stay there until some kind of threat appears somewhere)
IBT - HA retreats from Iron City spear

Turn 4 (725)
Promote IC cat to C1 – kill HA @ 22% (the healthy one) C2 Axe kills 2nd HA
Nott – Cat – Spear
Workers complete London mine (London now produces 16 hammers per turn)
IBT – Numi arrives near Iron City, Alex stack (2 cats, 1 HA, 1 sword) south of Thebes

Turn 5 (740)
Alex has C2 Phalanx on Thebes iron.
Iron City barracks - cat

Edit - Paint moved the text I had put in - the label Alex Stack is over top of our stack, Alex's is 2 tiles due south.

Here's the view around Thebes:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/106568/Thebes.JPG

I want to see what Alex's small stack does - the cats may suicide on our stack. If things are ok I will kill the Phalanx (75% chance with C2 axe and pillage the iron). Then bombard Thebes. A second stack of 5 cats plus some spears will be ready in Iron City at the end of the next 5 turns.

I will play the next set of 5 turns tomorrow.

The GOTM web site is down so here is the save:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/106568/Churchill_740-AD_Feb-01-2008_14-07-14.CivWarlordsSave

 

[Sam_Yeager]

I played 5 turns - heading into the fog was a bad decision - there was no city there. It looks like we have to raise Thebes but it will be a challenge as Alex has a small stack approaching.
2 Alex HA's killed, no losses.

Well at the time it seemed likely that there was a city in the fog. :shrug: We know Alex has at least one more city since the galley & trireme obviously didn't come from Thebes. Presumably this city (cities?) is not too far from the clams.

Edit - Paint moved the text I had put in - the label Alex Stack is over top of our stack, Alex's is 2 tiles due south.

I must be going blind because I'm blowed if I can see Alex's stack. All I can see is the phalanx.

 

[erikthecelt]

Alex stack is in the fog, they vanished when I moved into the woods.

 

[The-Hawk]

Forgot to mention this before... can we kill the barb city? Barb won't be producing archers forever. One of these days, he is gonna send an axe or mace. Why we don't finish them off with some units from the London Defense Force?

 

[Harbourboy]

Things are looking interesting. I agree that it would be nice to get rid of Barbarian city soon as it will just be one less thing to worry about.

Looking forward to seeing us off bottom place some time soon.

 

[erikthecelt]

I would just as soon take Parthian with culture. I am not at the point where I want to risk the LDF being caught away from home, nor do I want to divert troops from the attack on Alex and Hanni. Someone else can go for it.

 

[erikthecelt]

Body Count

Alex: 1 Phalanx, 2 cat, 2 HA
Hanni: 2 Numi, 2 chariot, 1 cat
Mansa: 1 LB
Churchill: 3 cats, 1 axe

Our stack outside Thebes will heal in 4 turns, Iron City has a stack ready to move on Alex’s elephant city.

We are 2nd overall in hammers per turn (mfg goods) and 5th in most other demographics. We have more hammers than Alex, Hanni or Mansa. We are 5 in # of soldiers.

IBT (740) – nothing ???

Turn 6 (755)
York cat – cat
Axe kills phalanx outside Thebes (garrison – elephant, LB, HA, sword, 2 cats, phalanx)
IBT – 2 cats attack stack and 1 dies, 1 retreats, Numi suicides on Iron City archer

Turn 7 (770) tech 30% +1 CS in 3 turns
Kumbi cat – cat
London spear – archer
Nott spear – axe
Bombard Thebes and pillage iron mine (hope it’s the only metal Alex has).
IBT – Mansa LB kills out cat outside Thebes, Alex cat kills our cat, our cat kills Alex cat

Turn 8 (785)
Mansa LB kills our cat @ 68% odds, axe kills LB, stack retreats to forest
Iron Mine complete
IBT
Hanni stack approaches Iron City

Turn 9 (800)
Promote units in Iron City for Hanni’s stack, withdraw from Thebes (stack needs 6 turns to heal)
IBT – Islam has been founded

Turn 10 (815) revolt to bureaucracy – chose MC 24 turns
London archer -- sword
Cat kills Numi, Hanni cat kills axe, spear kills chariot, spear kills chariot, cat kills cat.
Thebes stack healing.

 

[Harbourboy]

Looks reasonably successful. Metal Casting still 24 turns away? It all seems so slow in this game. What event coming up next will push us up to 4th in power then?

 

[erikthecelt]

We are in anarchy right now, it will get better when we see what Bureaucracy does to London. Besides, this is a game of hammers and we are #2. There is a good stack in iron city ready to take out the elephant city and then link with the stack outside Thebes. The two are big enough to take on Alex.

In looking at the stats, I think that we are on the biggest continent with 3 AI and there are 2 AI on a second continent with the other one isolated (hopefully the wonder demon (Rameses maybe)). We should be thinking about Liberalism - Astronomy unless we can count enough squares on this continent to win by domination.

 

[Sam_Yeager]

In the future I think it would be very helpful to post saves either just before or just after anarchy. In this case erik should probably have played until the anarchy was over.

Besides, this is a game of hammers and we are #2.

Not to mention being #1 compared to the civs we actually know.

There is a good stack in iron city ready to take out the elephant city and then link with the stack outside Thebes. The two are big enough to take on Alex.

Since Alex has elephants we need to make sure we pillage any camps to stop any more being built. I don't think the merged stack will be big enough. It may, just, be big enough to take Thebes.

We still haven't found Alex's capital and both Alex & Hanny are friendly with each other so we can expect further attacks from Hanny. Incidentally Hanny seems to be the tech leader. I wonder if we can expect to see carthaginian maces appearing in the not too distant future.

In looking at the stats, I think that we are on the biggest continent with 3 AI and there are 2 AI on a second continent with the other one isolated (hopefully the wonder demon (Rameses maybe)). We should be thinking about Liberalism - Astronomy unless we can count enough squares on this continent to win by domination.

I find it difficult to believe Gyathaar would make the game that easy.