SGOTM 06 - Misfits

I can get the save later this afternoon.

I want to digest all you guys have written. Is it time to visit Alex again? Raze his new city, perhaps? :p
 
I want to digest all you guys have written.

Hey, it's not that much too read, is it? :D


I think for now, we should assemble some forces in Sparta, and try to RAZE Hannibal's new city, as namliaM suggested above:
The free Axe and chariot should I think go to Sparta, as should the 2 new units. If we take the current Chariot and go SE, SE-SE (onto that Hill) we can make sure there are currently no Skirmishers on their way to Horico.
Meanwhile heading south to reinforce Sparta.

Sparta with 2 Axemen and 1 Chariot soon arriving (6 turns) should be strong enough to take 2 Axemen SE to Hannibal's new city (HNC). It is a 4 turns march from Sparta to HNC so in 10 turns we would like to have Hannibals VPP join the 2 Axemen at HNC from the Southeast, make sure to be on the right side of the river first to not get that penalty!
Maybe if all looks clear we can take the Chariot as well, for added protection and power. With 4 Axemen and a chariot even if we find 2 Archers in HNC we should be able to take it without much problems. But make sure to RAZE it, it is to far away for us currently and is actually nothing special in general.


For now, we have to raze all the cities we attack. Their capitals are too strong without Cats, because of the culture, and their other cities are too far away from London and they are nothing special (for now).

Instead, we should keep the AI busy, pillage their lands (but leave their cottages/hamlets!!! alone), and keep them from connecting resources ...

Just make sure they cannot get into your back and attack our cities, because they aren't well defended ...


For London, we have the 'problem' that it will go unhappy in 6 turns.
That's why namliaM and I suggest to finish the Axe (2 turns), start the library (3 turns), start the granary for 1 turn, then :whipped: it for 2 pop, then finish the started library ...

For London's worker, he should stop mining the hill, as we won't need it until we regrow to size 7. Instead, he should finish the road to Horico (for added commerce and to allow Horico to build Axes as well), then mine the 2nd Gold for +1:)
 
Nah, not too much to read at all... Just want to do it for my own understanding, as well as moving in the team direction. I should be getting it soon, and play in a couple hours. (It's Saturday and my wife wants some of my time... imagine the nerve!)

BTW: I have relatives in Brussels, and I noticed it's about 1/2 way between the two of you. I know I'll be out there one of these summers. It's so interesting... the distance from there to either of you is shorter than me leaving my own state!
 
BTW: I have relatives in Brussels, and I noticed it's about 1/2 way between the two of you. I know I'll be out there one of these summers. It's so interesting... the distance from there to either of you is shorter than me leaving my own state!

That's true, it's roughly in the middle between Amsterdam and Luxembourg; it's an 2 1/2 hours drive to Luxembourg ;)

But by the way: if you are living in a bigger town of the US, I bet its surface is bigger than my whole country :D
Not to talk about population; we have a total of ~450'000 ...
 
Nope. I work in a town of 3700, and live right next to it in a tinier town of 300! All of this in the middle of national forest. Closest "big" city of 50,000 is 45 miles away. Portland, OR is the closest major city... about 2 1/2 hours away! My house would be on the right side of this covered bridge:

http://2gconstruction.com/projects/images/bridges_office_bridge.jpg

Oh, got the save! I'll play it tonight, I believe... You guys should be seeing it when you wake up.
 
................
 
I hope you have recovered from your Archer-nightmares ... :p

Yeah, I'm cool.

I have a funny feeling MM has another city to the east where we haven't explored. We might put that on our list of things to do.

For London's worker, he should stop mining the hill, as we won't need it until we regrow to size 7. Instead, he should finish the road to Horico (for added commerce and to allow Horico to build Axes as well), then mine the 2nd Gold for +1:)

Two gold gives +2 happiness? I thought only the first of any resource gives a bonus... :confused: Have I been missing that all this time?!
 
I guess my nightmare isn't over... The RNG doesn't seem to like me one bit. I'm sorry guys, I lost 3 axes this time, and the plan was one at the most. :wallbash: There is good news, though...

1) Turn 111-113 were uneventful and mostly pillaging farms. I found a better one to pillage on the Hanny VPP (+:commerce: ), but didn't hang around to get the last one as I wanted to sack HNC.

Also, I sent the axe/chariot combo east of MM. He has a coastal city.

WGOTM120-1.jpg


About 112 Alex sends a C2 Axeman up around Sparta, but he leaves. Around the same time, our chariot arrives from the south and I send it and the axe to HNC. (A back-up axe from the capitol is arriving)

2) Turn 116 - The monument, granary, and road to Horico all finish up. Also, the C2 axe also comes back. This time he attacks, and with 73% odds, kills our axeman. I kill him with the spear. Dangerous, I know, but he had to die! :mad: Since the wounded spear was alone, I sent the chariot back. (Good thing)

Also this turn, we find a barb city has been founded. I sent a chariot to cover the cows, but a barb warrior is headed south.

WGOTM120-2.jpg


3) Turn 119 - With a 59% I attack the lone archer in HNC. My turn to win one, right? Wrong. He dies. And not only does he die, but he inflicts only 20 HP of damage?! One lousy hit! :aargh: This means the other axes, who would have mopped up, were still across the river, and coudn't help, :cry: and just move into position.

WGOTM120-3.jpg


4) Turn 120 - HNC falls, and we take a worker... please get him home safe, it was expensive.

5) Turn 120 - We have an issue. Two skirmishers (no promotions) show up out of the FOW. We have 1 chariot and one healing C1 spear (3.0 of 4.0) in the city. Assuming we win one of the battles, the axeman will arrive to help.

WGOTM120-4.jpg


I got everything done (the gold isn't hooked up yet) I saw on the list, but it sure didn't go as planned. Sorry I'm so unlucky... :dunno: Oh, Alex finished the Great Wall. It'll look nice on over our mantle!

Spoiler :
Turn 116, 760 BC: Churchill's Chariot (4.00) vs Barbarian's Warrior (1.90)
Turn 116, 760 BC: Combat Odds: 99.3%
Turn 116, 760 BC: (Barbarian Combat: -5%)
Turn 116, 760 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 28 (72/100HP)
Turn 116, 760 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 28 (44/100HP)
Turn 116, 760 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 28 (16/100HP)
Turn 116, 760 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 28 (0/100HP)
Turn 116, 760 BC: Churchill's Chariot has defeated Barbarian's Warrior!
Turn 116, 760 BC: You have constructed a Granary in London. Work has now begun on a Library.

Turn 117, 745 BC: Alexander's Axeman (6.00) vs Churchill's Axeman (5.00)
Turn 117, 745 BC: Combat Odds: 73.0%
Turn 117, 745 BC: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 117, 745 BC: (Combat: -50%)
Turn 117, 745 BC: (Combat: +50%)
Turn 117, 745 BC: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 117, 745 BC: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 117, 745 BC: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 21 (37/100HP)
Turn 117, 745 BC: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 21 (16/100HP)
Turn 117, 745 BC: Alexander's Axeman is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 117, 745 BC: Alexander's Axeman is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 117, 745 BC: Alexander's Axeman is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 117, 745 BC: Alexander's Axeman is hit for 18 (28/100HP)
Turn 117, 745 BC: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 117, 745 BC: Alexander's Axeman has defeated Churchill's Axeman!

Turn 118, 730 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Sparta!
Turn 118, 730 BC: Churchill's Spearman (4.00) vs Alexander's Axeman (3.08)
Turn 118, 730 BC: Combat Odds: 88.3%
Turn 118, 730 BC: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 118, 730 BC: (Plot Defense: +50%)
Turn 118, 730 BC: (Combat: +50%)
Turn 118, 730 BC: Churchill's Spearman is hit for 26 (74/100HP)
Turn 118, 730 BC: Alexander's Axeman is hit for 15 (13/100HP)
Turn 118, 730 BC: Churchill's Spearman is hit for 26 (48/100HP)
Turn 118, 730 BC: Alexander's Axeman is hit for 15 (0/100HP)
Turn 118, 730 BC: Churchill's Spearman has defeated Alexander's Axeman!
Turn 118, 730 BC: Your Spearman has destroyed a Axeman!

Turn 119, 715 BC: Churchill's Axeman (5.50) vs Hannibal's Archer (5.25)
Turn 119, 715 BC: Combat Odds: 59.2%
Turn 119, 715 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 119, 715 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 119, 715 BC: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 119, 715 BC: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 119, 715 BC: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 119, 715 BC: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 119, 715 BC: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 19 (24/100HP)
Turn 119, 715 BC: Hannibal's Archer is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 119, 715 BC: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 19 (5/100HP)
Turn 119, 715 BC: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
Turn 119, 715 BC: Hannibal's Archer has defeated Churchill's Axeman!
Turn 119, 715 BC: Your Axeman has died trying to attack a Archer!
Turn 119, 715 BC: Alexander has completed The Great Wall!

Turn 120, 700 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Sparta!
Turn 120, 700 BC: Churchill's Axeman (5.50) vs Hannibal's Archer (5.85)
Turn 120, 700 BC: Combat Odds: 28.1%
Turn 120, 700 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 120, 700 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 120, 700 BC: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 120, 700 BC: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 120, 700 BC: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 120, 700 BC: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 120, 700 BC: Hannibal's Archer is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 120, 700 BC: Hannibal's Archer is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 120, 700 BC: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 120, 700 BC: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 120, 700 BC: Hannibal's Archer has defeated Churchill's Axeman!
Turn 120, 700 BC: Your Axeman has died trying to attack a Archer!
Turn 120, 700 BC: Churchill's Axeman (5.00) vs Hannibal's Archer (3.62)
Turn 120, 700 BC: Combat Odds: 84.3%
Turn 120, 700 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 120, 700 BC: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 120, 700 BC: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 120, 700 BC: Hannibal's Archer is hit for 20 (42/100HP)
Turn 120, 700 BC: Hannibal's Archer is hit for 20 (22/100HP)
Turn 120, 700 BC: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 120, 700 BC: Hannibal's Archer is hit for 20 (2/100HP)
Turn 120, 700 BC: Hannibal's Archer is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 120, 700 BC: Churchill's Axeman has defeated Hannibal's Archer!
Turn 120, 700 BC: Your Axeman has destroyed a Archer!
Turn 120, 700 BC: You have captured a Worker
Turn 120, 700 BC: You have captured Hadrumetum!!!
Turn 120, 700 BC: You have destroyed the city of Hadrumetum!!!
 
Two gold gives +2 happiness? I thought only the first of any resource gives a bonus... :confused: Have I been missing that all this time?!

I haven't read your write-up yet, but no, two gold DOES NOT give 2 hapiness ...

... mining the 2nd gold gives us 1 hapiness, because the 1st gold isn't connected yet!
 
About 112 Alex sends a C2 Axeman up around Sparta, but he leaves. Around the same time, our chariot arrives from the south and I send it and the axe to HNC. (A back-up axe from the capitol is arriving)
...
Turn 116 ... Also, the C2 axe also comes back. This time he attacks, and with 73% odds, kills our axeman.

If you know there is a C2-Axeman around, why do you send the chariot away :confused: :(


Mastiff_of_Ar said:
3) Turn 119 - With a 59% I attack the lone archer in HNC. My turn to win one, right? Wrong. He dies ... the other axes, who would have mopped up, were still across the river, and coudn't help, :cry: and just move into position.

Why do you attack him if you weren't ready? There was no need to destroy the city this turn. Wait 1 turn, and you have 3 Axes in position :(

The way you did it, you lost the first Axe, and his Archer was able to promote (recovering half of his damage, and getting even better odds!) and rest for 1 turn ...


Mastiff_of_Ar said:
5) Turn 120 - We have an issue. Two skirmishers (no promotions) show up out of the FOW. We have 1 chariot and one healing C1 spear (3.0 of 4.0) in the city. Assuming we win one of the battles, the axeman will arrive to help.

Doesn't look good :(


Mastiff_of_Ar said:
I got everything done (the gold isn't hooked up yet)

Your worker has moved to the 'wrong' gold; we were planning to connect the gold SE of London, because it will be needed by our spice-city, and a road to the gold NW will never be needed ...
 
If you know there is a C2-Axeman around, why do you send the chariot away :confused: :(

Why would he attack the city the second time, but not the first? I figured he was headed down to reinforce Alex's other city.

Why do you attack him if you weren't ready? There was no need to destroy the city this turn. Wait 1 turn, and you have 3 Axes in position :(

The way you did it, you lost the first Axe, and his Archer was able to promote (recovering half of his damage, and getting even better odds!) and rest for 1 turn ...

At 59% odds, I figured it would do more damage, and he woulnd't have time to pop another archer.

Doesn't look good :(

Don't say that... :(

Your worker has moved to the 'wrong' gold; we were planning to connect the gold SE of London, because it will be needed by our spice-city, and a road to the gold NW will never be needed ...

Someone needs to explain the difference to me... really.
 
MoA said:
Also, I sent the axe/chariot combo east of MM. He has a coastal city.
Why did you leave that farm in his capitol behind??

Mansa seems to be asettling on Hill tops :(

I know I am a bit of a nitpicker... I hope I am not comming down to hard on you... but ...
- Yes why indeed take a Chariot away from Sparta when you know a C2 Axe is around, that is what Chariots are for. Losing this Axe could have been prevented.
IIRC the HNC rading party was intended for 2 Axemen + 2 from the south? To take into account there could have been 2 Archers there. Why did you leave the second Axe in Sparta?
The spear take down of the Axe at 88% was a good choice tho.

- I agree with CfL dont attack untill you are ready, if you had taken the western farm of Hannibal instead of the northern one, you could have arrived west of HNC -aka hadrumetum- on the same turn as the first one. Ready for attack.
Turn 119, 715 BC: Churchill's Axeman (5.50) vs Hannibal's Archer (5.25)
Turn 119, 715 BC: Combat Odds: 59.2%
Turn 119, 715 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 119, 715 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 119, 715 BC: (City Defense: +50%)

Turn 120, 700 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Sparta!
Turn 120, 700 BC: Churchill's Axeman (5.50) vs Hannibal's Archer (5.85)
Turn 120, 700 BC: Combat Odds: 28.1%
Turn 120, 700 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 120, 700 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 120, 700 BC: (City Defense: +70%)

Notice the difference for city defense %, the difference in power and the noticable diffence in Combat Odds.
Had you waited this would only have cost us 1 Axe like it did in your second attack.

- The road you build to complete the road should have been NOT on the hill, but on the grass fields south of there. By moving it to the Hill you lost one turn in stepping onto the hill. Also the road on the grass would eventually have made the route south shorter... A road on the Forrest east of london would make Horico => London a 3 turn trip, while now it is a 3.5 turn trip :(

- The second gold reasoning:
Now you are roading to the first gold, this takes 3 turns on the grass road, 1 turn to climb the hill and 3 more for the road on the gold (which we should now finish).
This road will serve us (near) NO purpose in the future (except maybe to connect that Western city sometime in the future). With the road allready going SouthEast from London, connecting it with that second river. The MINE of that second gold would have auto connected the gold to London, same as Sparta is connected to London. The mine also takes 7 turns but can be used by City C to the east of London.
Where the road is just the road, costing 7 turns. The mine can be mined for $$$.

- The warrior North of Horico
Why did it not:
Explore the north?
Atleast fogbust on the Forrest west of the Horses, this would have prevented the barb city that is now up there :(
The peak inside the Horico Culture should cover the first 2 tiles from fog, where the warrior would take care of the next 3.

- The Skirmishers
They are unpromoted, when they are attacking our units I am not that worried. The C1 (the proper promotion I think :goodjob: ) Spear SHOULD hold his own. It is currently on HEAL instead of FORTIFY, change that to build defensive strength!
The battles should atleast be 50% for the Chariot (no defensive bonus for him) and 50+% for the Spear (3 + Healing + 10% C1 + 10% Defense + 5% per turn Fortification).
Even if they are both 50% change of winning, that results in 75% chance of wining one or the other and the Axe arriving just in time.

- The Barb city
Why havent you looked at the barb city yet?
There may only be warriors and a Chariot can tackle warriors no problem.

- London
Finish the Library => Turn on Research ! Lets get to Construction...
Road the gold, mine the (roaded) hill
Road the second gold and Rice due SE (atleast) to shorten London => Sparta Transit by 1 turn.

I think we have to make a choice pretty soon, we cannot keep building units only and working the hammer tiles. We need Commerce soon too!
To this point I think Horico is much better suited to be a commerce city than the (fronline) city of Sparta.
So I suggest building a Library in Horico soon and maybe even run two scientists there for a GS/Academy in London.
Meanwhile London builds our Army, and Sparta should join in after building a Barracks?
We should then start by building Cottages behind the mountains, eventually jumping over. With the Rice + Cows + Horses beeing base tiles we can work 4 cottages at size 7. Or really focus when the time comes changing the Horses to a cottage too.

Roster (update) :
ChrisFromLux
Mastiff_of_Ar => Now having Axe nightmares
ArcadicGamer => UP, we will wait untill the new year I think...
namliaM => Still want more discussion, come on guys join in! and On deck

I cannot take it untill new years anyway :(, so unless Chris or MoA is dying to get their hands on Alex/MM... lets wait for AG.

CNWJR => Out of this for a while, Unable to load the save
MaroWaker => Out of this till Januari 18th
 
Roster (update) :
ChrisFromLux
Mastiff_of_Ar => Now having Axe nightmares
ArcadicGamer => UP, we will wait untill the new year I think...
namliaM => Still want more discussion, come on guys join in! and On deck

I cannot take it untill new years anyway :(, so unless Chris or MoA is dying to get their hands on Alex/MM... lets wait for AG.

CNWJR => Out of this for a while, Unable to load the save
MaroWaker => Out of this till Januari 18th

My vote goes to waiting for AG ... and pausing the game 'til next year ...
 
In addition...

I dont like the Kumbi Saleh spot at all, to much space between it and MMs capitol.

Djenne looks like it would have been better off 2 North or 1 NW, but its the Holy capitol of Judaism, we probably want to keep it. But we are going to need us 3 priests to get the full use of them holy cities, It is going to take a LONG while to get those 3 priests. As well as need really need to "waste" hammers to Spread the Religion too. Maybe we can make due with just 2 religions cities and raze this?

Utica, should go 1 East or 1 Southeast to fit better with the Cow/horse city down there

Corrinth can be a great commerce city IF we move it 1 west to grab the gold.

So far the AI are not really helping in settling new cities for us (except for Sparta offcourse, and their capitols)

Alex building the Great wall is a bad thing I think... Any barbs spawning south of him are now stuck. As well as any barbs spawning between Alex and Us now will be comming to us instead of Alex
 
Sorry guys... I really am learning here. :(
 
Maybe we can make due with just 2 religions cities and raze this?

I agree, because Holy Cities develop their full strength only if their religion spreads; and in this game (AW), we will never spread religions to AI cities on our own ...
And with all the units we are going to need, I think we should concentrate on spreading a 1st religion ... I even am not sure we are able to fully spread 2 religions in our own cities, because this needs 2 Prophets to start paying, as you said ... :confused:
 
Sorry guys... I really am learning here. :(

Not to worry, just ask questions if things are not clear like "what is that second gold thing" or something

No matter we all make mistakes and we are all learning...

Maybe we get Lucky and either (or both) MM and Hannibal build us that shrine... before we capture it. Save us the bother of getting a priest ourselves.
I think we should also try and make a FINAL dotmap of our lands someday... See what we can do with this land... Unfortunatly we still have to much black stuff laying around.
 
Spoiler Dotmap North :


A Production capitol of this continent! Again HE should go here I think.
5 hills and a Cow = 19 production, add a farm or two and Workshops.
B Cow and Fish, Cheap city. 3 Cottages and scientists :)
C Nice city but needs LOTS of chopping of Jungle
D Little semi productive city, in particular is we bring Irrigation to the Rice...
E Main reason for excisting is to bring Irrigation to the Rice for F.
F is real important I think. Bring irrigation from the south, work 2 gold hils and more cottages... :drool: Also grabs Wine for extra happy face with Monarchy.
G Filler city with again LOTS of jungle, but once up and running is going to be worth getting :)
Spoiler Dotmap South :

H A bit low on food, but can work the cows and cottage all the grasses. Also looks like a potential site to put the Forbidden Palace if we ever get around to it.
I :drool: 5 FPs (1 farmed, 4 cottaged), Goldmine, 4 Plains Cottages, 3 Grasslands and a hill and cow for production.
J With Oasis (+1) , Cows (+1) and Wheat (+2) can work 2 gold mines Very nicely. Plus ones Irrigated the Wheat gives +1 food more. Good for 4 more grassland cottages and one Plains cottage.
K I rethought my position on Utica, It fits nicely... Thank you Hannibal
M work the Crabs + Lighthouse + Goldmine... ?? Do we want that?
L Nothing special really, can live without it I think
N With the Rice can work all 10 cottages, decent filler city

A, B, C, F, I, J and Athens with its gold are cities we want to settle/capture ASAP I think... They will be the core of our Economy, A offcourse Military, but others... :drool:
 
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