SGOTM 06 - Misfits

namliaM · Jan 5, 2008

Mastiff_of_Ar said:
Oh, I know you're next... I was just having fun with Nam.

Beeing a joker right?? Hmz... Like the enthousiasm tho... keep it going

Do we have some defense units up there? It's pretty close to MM capitol.

We do need an Axe or something there to protect.... But MM is not posing much of a threat at the moment

This why I think he is not much of a threat, just look at his Manufacturing graph (hammers)

On the power graph he looks more scary... But there are reasons for that:
1) 2 skirmishers are as powerfull as 3 Archers (on the graph)
Presuming he has 2 skirmishers in each of his 3 (visible) cities (seems likely to me) that is 9 archers to "us"
2) Pop = power. Presuming the AIs spread around equally fast, both Alex and Hannibal would have had 4 cities at this time.
Except we Razed one city each. Captured one from Alex and a Settler steal from Hannibal. This means MM will have a 4th city someplace (on the coast between his capitol and Kumbi Saleh?) each 4 pop = 1 archer.
3) Tech
Tech adds to power as well, we all know MM is a tech king... so... Also the powergraph shows a nice jump prior to the 2 skirmisher deaths. This IMHO can only be accounted for by a tech. These techs could be:
- BW (we know he has had that loooong time now allready)
- Machinery (to early even for MM)
- Horsebackriding (no horses, no harm)
- Iron working (the likely candidate as he has LOTS of jungle to chop, enabled by IW)

ChrisFromLux · Jan 5, 2008

I will play my turnset tomorrow morning (~16 hours from now).

Cities
London: build 1 settler, than start WE
Horico: build 2 settlers
Sparta: OK for the Spear ... just to be sure
York: well, continue the library

As soon as city F is up, it will work Horico's rice. So we need another tile for Horico to work on ... work the spices for 2 :food:

/1

/1

or cottage 1 grassland; this gives 1 :hammers:

less, but of course, the cottage can start growing ...
And if we work the cottage instead of the rice, this gives us both settlers in 26 turns, instead of 22: 300-44 = 256/10 = 26 turns

Workers
London: finish mine, then chop N of York and mine it afterwards
Horico: cottage the grass SW (see above), before roading to to F as namliaM suggested.
Sparta: finish the camp, cottage the floodplain, then road back to Sparta for faster unit-movement
'Roader': road to F's rice, then farm London's dye

Units
- 3 chariots near Athens: look for worker on Wheat and Gold, and use the 3rd to visit Corinth and Utica
- MM's Axe/Chariot: [party]

/scout SE, towards the coast
- Axe near London: to F for defense
- Axe/Chariot/Spear from Sparta: [party]

Carthage; Bronze and Horses and ...
- 2 Axes near Djenne: pillage its farms, then ...!?!

namliaM · Jan 5, 2008

Horico IMHO "owns" the rice atleast as long as it is producing settlers. But we can indeed work the spices or a cottage if it is done.
The 26 turns is overdoing it, as we will atleast work the rice untill F is founded.

Workers
London: The chop @ York can wait a few turns. Maybe have him make the cottage/chop the Horico Forrest, while the Horico worker goes off towards F?
The chop at York we have another 25 turns to make happen I think.

Roader, road to F's rice? That is going to take a LOOONG while to do. I think you mean C's rice (York) Which is 7 or 8 turns then farm the Dye... sounds OK.

Units
The 3rd "unmarked" chariot just finished a tour of Utica and Corinth NOTHING there. Send him home to Sparta's culture to save a coin and be able to rush to reinforce the "worker" parties should it be needed. Keep an Axe near south of Sparta too, just to be safe !

I was thinking to take one of those southern Axemen and heading east to explore. The Chariot/Axe up north are going to have some fun re-removing those farms up there. and maybe a road or two connecting cities? Hopefully find a worker (unlikely tho)?

The Axe near London is a 5xp Axe. There is a unpromoted Axe in Horico which can serve (better?) as defence in F I think? While the two 5xp (CR2?) Axemen clean up that western barb city.

First build in F, a library same as York? Except here we can really chop out the Lib fast like (2 chops + normal production should have it just about finished).

Idea: Shut down research after construction untill we can research calander 100% ??

Tech:
Can we afford to go for IW next after Calander? Dont we need Currency and CoL soon? or can that wait untill after IW?
We need IW for A (mostly) but... we need workers to CHOP CHOP CHOP, otherwize IW will do us no good....

ChrisFromLux · Jan 5, 2008

namliaM said:
Horico IMHO "owns" the rice atleast as long as it is producing settlers. But we can indeed work the spices or a cottage if it is done.
The 26 turns is overdoing it, as we will atleast work the rice untill F is founded.

If we don't give the rice to F, it cannot work the gold (except being stagnant, of course!). I think we should immediately start working the rice, as soon as F is founded. That way, it can already start growing while the gold is mined, and at size 2, it still can keep growing, to work the 2nd gold at size 3, and be stagnant, until we get fresh water up there.
Horico does not absolutely need the rice, even if it builds Settlers. 26 turns was too much, OK, let's make it ~24 turns. That makes each settler 1 turn slower than if we work the rice; on the other hand, F can grow, and Horico can start building up a cottage.

namliaM said:
Workers
London: The chop @ York can wait a few turns. Maybe have him make the cottage/chop the Horico Forrest, while the Horico worker goes off towards F?
The chop at York we have another 25 turns to make happen I think.

York doesn't need the tile to be improved ... that's true! My idea was chopping now, so that the library is out faster, the culture pops earlier, and the city can develop earlier. It's not because of the mine ... but as we are already there, I thought we could do it as well.
Main reason: get these 44 :hammers:

into the library ... it's the most important building (for now) for that commerce city!

namliaM said:
Roader, road to F's rice? That is going to take a LOOONG while to do. I think you mean C's rice (York) Which is 7 or 8 turns then farm the Dye... sounds OK.

Well, of course I was thinking about York's rice ... :blush:

namliaM said:
Units
The 3rd "unmarked" chariot just finished a tour of Utica and Corinth NOTHING there. Send him home to Sparta's culture to save a coin and be able to rush to reinforce the "worker" parties should it be needed. Keep an Axe near south of Sparta too, just to be safe !

Didn't notice that Utica and Corinth have just been visited. In that case, I agree on sending him home to Sparta ...

namliaM said:
I was thinking to take one of those southern Axemen and heading east to explore. The Chariot/Axe up north are going to have some fun re-removing those farms up there. and maybe a road or two connecting cities? Hopefully find a worker (unlikely tho)?

Catch a worker on a road-network? Hmmm, really unlikely ... but I'll do my best :scan:

I agree on taking 1 of these Axes to scout the coast, the 2nd one will then be scanning the aera, and waiting for a Spear/Chariot to VPP Corinth

namliaM said:
The Axe near London is a 5xp Axe. There is a unpromoted Axe in Horico which can serve (better?) as defence in F I think? While the two 5xp (CR2?) Axemen clean up that western barb city.

Agreed! Didn't notice their Exp, and didn't see the other Axe sitting in Horico. Start to get difficult to follow all units/moves, if you haven't touched the game yourself for 30 turns, and there's no 'grouped', precise attack going on yet :crazyeye:

namliaM said:
First build in F, a library same as York? Except here we can really chop out the Lib fast like (2 chops + normal production should have it just about finished).

Agreed!

namliaM said:
Idea: Shut down research after construction untill we can research calander 100% ??

You think it's worth it? I won't do any calculations anymore tonight :nono:

namliaM said:
Tech:
Can we afford to go for IW next after Calander? Dont we need Currency and CoL soon? or can that wait untill after IW?
We need IW for A (mostly) but... we need workers to CHOP CHOP CHOP, otherwize IW will do us no good....

We can live without it for the moment, I think. We have WE and Cats to attack ... and our cities need many turns before they need the jungle to be removed, as we calculated in our Skype-summary-post. I think we can go for Currency first ...
Of course, finding Iron in one of our cities would greatly improve its production (mainly city A, looks like a candidate)

namliaM · Jan 6, 2008

Main reason: get these 44 into the library ... it's the most important building (for now) for that commerce city!

York is going to be building the Library for the next 135 - 44 = 91 / 4 = 23 turns. If we can fit in the chop in that time it will be good enough. The chop at Horico IMHO is MUCH more important and moreso the Cottage is of greater importance as well as the road to F... The chop at york will not do much... the Cottage brings +1 commerce

Well, of course I was thinking about York's rice ...

Good, I thought it was me at the late hour :crazyeye:

Catch a worker on a road-network? Hmmm, really unlikely ... but I'll do my best

Not on the roads themselves. but if you pillage them ... maybe the worker gets stuck?

I agree on taking 1 of these Axes to scout the coast, the 2nd one will then be scanning the aera, and waiting for a Spear/Chariot to VPP Corinth

Djene or Carthage you mean ?? :crazyeye:

Corinth has just been visited...

Agreed! Didn't notice their Exp, and didn't see the other Axe sitting in Horico. Start to get difficult to follow all units/moves, if you haven't touched the game yourself for 30 turns, and there's no 'grouped', precise attack going on yet

Maybe we should rename units more?
Barb sacker1, Barb sacker2...
MM VPP1,2,3
etc??

Would that help?

Also I was thinking about the WE builds.... Maybe we should focus more on Catapults first? 3 catapults > 2 WEs I think...

You think it's worth it? I won't do any calculations anymore tonight

It shouldnt matter either way... but it doesnt hurt either... and if we get a library done while saving that is a few extra (free) beakers

We can live without it for the moment, I think. We have WE and Cats to attack ... and our cities need many turns before they need the jungle to be removed, as we calculated in our Skype-summary-post. I think we can go for Currency first ...
Of course, finding Iron in one of our cities would greatly improve its production (mainly city A, looks like a candidate)

Any Iron anywhere will make my day + NO Iron for MM would be nice too

But MM allready beeing stuck without Copper and no Horses.... I am no betting man, but... I will bet he has Iron in his capitol

Tho with Copper and Elephants, who needs Iron... as long as its is on this continent someplace... it is good enough.... preferably NOT in anyone's culture...

A will need some time to develop, before Jungle removal is needed. But at break even (50% research and -1 GPT)
33 turns Currency
35 turns CoL
15 turns IW
29 turns Calander

CoL vs Currency
CoL downside it needs hammers to construct the courthouses.... but with just the 2 courthouses in York and Horico it save allmost as much as Currency would net us. 3 GPT vs 4 GPT
F will be more expensive and increase costs on our excisting cities too. So maybe CoL > Currency?
Offcourse Courthouse build in F is a ways off yet...

ArcadicGamer · Jan 6, 2008

remember, that seeing the enemies iron will also be a benefit of IW, although tiles with it are apparent, they can be overlooked. I think IW>CUR>CoL might be better for our attack, which i assume would be about the time we finish cur.

ChrisFromLux · Jan 6, 2008

namliaM said:
York is going to be building the Library for the next 135 - 44 = 91 / 4 = 23 turns. If we can fit in the chop in that time it will be good enough. The chop at Horico IMHO is MUCH more important and moreso the Cottage is of greater importance as well as the road to F... The chop at york will not do much... the Cottage brings +1 commerce

OK, agreed! This means London's worker goes working for Horico, building a cottage, then chopping, while Horico's worker leaves in direction of F ...

namliaM said:
Djene or Carthage you mean ?? Corinth has just been visited...

Of course it has ... I meant Carthage ... I really have to stop posting that late

namliaM said:
Maybe we should rename units more?
Barb sacker1, Barb sacker2...
MM VPP1,2,3
etc??

Would that help?

Yeah, well, maybe ... or I could have re-read your write-up before posting ...

namliaM said:
Also I was thinking about the WE builds.... Maybe we should focus more on Catapults first? 3 catapults > 2 WEs I think...

Yes, we could go for Cats first ... on the other hand, WE don't have to fear any unit except Spears ... but I agree on building Cats first

ChrisFromLux · Jan 6, 2008

OK, game loaded, off I go ... :ar15:

ChrisFromLux · Jan 6, 2008

Short summary of my turnset: 3 cities razed and 3 units lost, no worker/settler captured and nothing special pillaged.

Detailed summary; all in all, everything worked out the way it was planned:
Cities:
- London finished an Axe, who headed down to Sparta, and started a settler
- Horico finished its settler, and started a new one
- Sparta finished the Spear, and started another Axe
Workers:
- London's worker finished his mine, then went cottaging up in Horico
- Horico's worker roaded the grass and the rice, then headed to the gold and started the mine (city F not connected yet!)
- Sparta's worker finished the camp, then started the cottage S of the camp
- The 'Roader' roaded to the rice near York, then started farming London's dye

City F (AKA Nottingham) was founded, and started building a library and working the rice (but 1 or 2 turns after settling only)

We learned Construction, then Sailing, and started Calendar.

On the last turn, our chariots near Athens spotted 2 workers. At the moment, 1 chariot is ready to strike on the next turn ... but probably, these workers will move away ...

MM's workers are hiding inside Timbuktu, and they haven't improved much yet

Beside this, there was quite a lot of fighting.
Both Axes near Horico were promoted to CRII, and razed the barb-city (Burgundian). At the moment, they are healing on the cows near Horico (3 turns left). I have them already promoted to CRIII, to take out the northern barb city sooner.

Our worker-scouting Chariots near Athens didn't spot workers, but a settler, escorted by 2 Archers. Our chariots attacked at 73,6% odds on the cows. 1 Archer was defeated, the second one killed our chariot. I called for another chariot from Sparta (the one that left Athens, to wait inside our borders). He arrived 2 or 3 turns later, and razed the city (Argos) at 70%-odds ... and I had the surviving, healing chariot that could have finished him of, if he had destroyed yet another chariot.

Unfortunately, there was my 1st mistake; in the beginning, I had sent the promoted Chariot back to Sparta, leaving 2 unexperienced Chariot looking for workers. The experienced Chariot would of course had much better odds against these Archers. Sorry!

Meanwhile, there was another greek Archer scouting Sparta. Our Axe attacked him at 94,8% odds ... and lost, of course.

Used another chariot to finish him of ...

The scouting Axe waiting between Djenne and Carthage spotted another carthagian settler, escorted by an Archer, heading towards the spot where we already razed a city. Unfortunately, he stayed in the forests, until the city was founded. So, the Axe was promoted to CRI, attacked the city @85,2%-odds ... and lost, as well. But I had a chariot near-by, who finished the injured archer off the next, and Hippo was razed!

IBT, Hannibal adopted 'Hereditary Rule', a Great Prophet was born in Athens, Christianity was founded in Corinth and Alexander adopted 'Theocracy'

The save is online, and here are both logs ...

Spoiler HOFMod log :

Spoiler Upload log :

namliaM · Jan 6, 2008

Wow to bad about the bad battles. RNG doesnt seem to like us!

2 more AI cities razed...nice... 2 CR3 ! Axemen up north.. nice..

London still working the forrest, not so nice

Please change it to work the mine for +1 hammers

The warrior East of York is still outside our borders. He is doing us no good there and costing us 1GPT. Use him as MP in York...

The workers of Alex will probably run... but if we move the chariot out of sight (1 SE where it was at my save) they will come to reconnect the roads between Corinth (yet another Holy city we will raze) and Athens.

I am worried a little about our treasury.
We have 4 cities and once Nothingham is working the gold we are at breakeven at 50%.
Settling 2 more cities will drive that down even more unless we have some way of combatting costs.
At 50% calander is 22 turns away and will gain us 4 coins (2 beakers/2gpt) and 2 happy faces. (spice below York and the Dye)
Also it obsoleets Obelisks, we want I think atleast one Obelisk in A before we obsoleet it.

Currency will add 5 gpt over 5 cities

CoL at the expense of building Courthouses in Horico, Sparta and Nothingham 1.5 2 and 2 = 5.5 costs

All are simular

, currency is the most expensive tech of the 3 and Calander allready has beakers invested.

Roster (update) :
ChrisFromLux => Razed some cities
Mastiff_of_Ar => The joke is on you, UP
ArcadicGamer => Get ready for more RNG fun

namliaM

From now on I will link to The dotmap so everyone can find it easy like.

CNWJR => Out of this for a while, Unable to load the save
MaroWaker => Out of this till Januari 18th

P.S. First post updated.

ChrisFromLux · Jan 6, 2008

namliaM said:
London still working the forrest, not so nice Please change it to work the mine for +1 hammers

The warrior East of York is still outside our borders. He is doing us no good there and costing us 1GPT. Use him as MP in York...

True! Didn't pay attention to the warrior ... but working the wrong tile after a worker's action, that normally doesn't happen to me :blush:

namliaM said:
The workers of Alex will probably run... but if we move the chariot out of sight (1 SE where it was at my save) they will come to reconnect the roads between Corinth (yet another Holy city we will raze) and Athens.

That's for MoA to see ... the chariot just moved into that position on my last turn ...

namliaM said:
I am worried a little about our treasury.
We have 4 cities and once Nothingham is working the gold we are at breakeven at 50%.
Settling 2 more cities will drive that down even more unless we have some way of combatting costs.
At 50% calander is 22 turns away and will gain us 4 coins (2 beakers/2gpt) and 2 happy faces. (spice below York and the Dye)
Also it obsoleets Obelisks, we want I think atleast one Obelisk in A before we obsoleet it.

Currency will add 5 gpt over 5 cities

CoL at the expense of building Courthouses in Horico, Sparta and Nothingham 1.5 2 and 2 = 5.5 costs

All are simular , currency is the most expensive tech of the 3 and Calander allready has beakers invested.

Another idea (done without any calculations): maybe, instead of founding cities A and B next, we could found A and J. Of course, J is close to Athens, and needs more protection, and it costs more maintenance than B, and we still wouldn't produce a GS, but it could work 2 Gold-Mines once grown to 4!

Today, I'll leave it up for namliaM to tell me that this is a stupid idea

Mastiff_of_Ar · Jan 6, 2008

I'm reading up... I may play tonight if I get enough direction on where we want to go...

EDIT: I had a couple things come up here. I'll post some thoughts from work tomorrow, then play about 14 hours from now, if that's okay.

ChrisFromLux · Jan 7, 2008

ChrisFromLux said:
Another idea (done without any calculations): maybe, instead of founding cities A and B next, we could found A and J. Of course, J is close to Athens, and needs more protection, and it costs more maintenance than B, and we still wouldn't produce a GS, but it could work 2 Gold-Mines once grown to 4!

Today, I'll leave it up for namliaM to tell me that this is a stupid idea

To continue with my own idea: we have the choice between cities B and J, IMHO. Both cities need to border-pop before they can work their important tiles, so they both need a library ... if we use London's settler for this city:

City B
3 turns: finish London's settler
2 turns: move to site B
11 turns: grow to size 2 (gives 11 :hammers:

: 1 from CC, and working Banana)
12 turns: grow to size 3 (gives 24 :hammers:

: 1 from CC, 1 from Spices, while working Banana and Spices)
---
28 turns, the city would be @size 3 and we would have 35 :hammers:

in the library.
We could then start to chop the spices, during 5 turns. This would give us 10 :hammers:

+ 44

from the chop, = 89 :hammers:

total after 33 turns. The last 46 :hammers:

could then be whipped for 1 pop, including the 1 :hammers:

from CC.

City B would finish its library after 34 turns from now, being @size 2.

City J
3 turns: finish London's settler
4 turns: move to site J (and a worker already ready to farm the wheat!!!)
13 turns: grow to size 2 (gives 26 :hammers:

: 1 from CC, 1 from Wheat, and working the Wheat)
17 turns: grow to size 3 (gives 34 :hammers:

: 1 from CC, 1 from Wheat, while working the Wheat and the Grassland)
---
37 turns, the city would be @size 3.
But the library would finish the turn after. 44 :hammers:

from the chop SW and 29 :hammers:

from the chop 2W = 73 :hammers:

from both chops.
The 62 :hammers:

remaining would be build by the city itself during 31 turns.

City J would finish its library after 38 turns from now, but it would be @ size 3.

To sum up, city J would finish the library (and pop its borders, of course) 4 turns later than city B.
But as soon as these borders pop, it can work 2 gold-mines!

Whereas city B would need to improve the fish and the cows after the borders pop.
So, as we need commerce, city J would cost more maintenance, but it would give us much more commerce. But we still wouldn't have a GP-Farm, of course ...

Mastiff_of_Ar · Jan 7, 2008

Just a general question... well, two:

1) Why are we expanding right now? I'm sure there's a good answer, but if we're about to take out Hannibal, isn't his capitol going to hurt our economy? Or do all the improvements make up for that? (Oh, and since much of his food comes from the ocean, we might want to consider a ship for protection so they don't get pillaged.)

2) What's our present thought for the win? Conquest? If so, we might want to chart our next tech "set" with Astro and Chem at the end for Galleons and Frigates...

namliaM · Jan 7, 2008

2) Conquest/domination would seem the fastest way to win... tho Domination offcourse is expensive.

1) Capitols are great cities... but I dont think we can afford to keep Carthage at this point. It has no way to pay for itself at current.

Expanding = more pop, more pop = higher Unit support = More units for free = Lower support cost for units. IIRC Roughly every 4 pop adds a free unit to be used.
50% of our cost currently is Units. So I think we want higher pop cities ASAP. Which is A and B I think... Possibly also allowing Nothingham to grow ASAP chopping like crazy for a Granary and Library soon after before working the gold mines to pay for its own upkeep.
But we can take a few days to deliberate this... we are ahead of the pack in our turnsets anyway. So I suggest holding off on playing untill we can make some true to life options.
It is going to be hell to make a mockup of our current game... but... it will teach us/me a few things I think.

To keep expanding ... or capturing cities we need some way of financing our cities by
1) Techs
- Currency
- CoL (FP ! veeeeerrrrrryyyy important here! And its location too)
- Calander
- CS
2) Conquest
Go get cities for their money, which means 2 or 3 catapults and go smash heads/cities razing them to the ground! The second city of Alex will get razed anyway. If we raze that second city of Hannibal I am pretty sure he will rebuild the same spot.

I can try and make a kindoff mockup test game tommorow and see what the options are cost wize. I think we dont actually need A at this time, London can produce more units that we need at current I think. So maybe B and J are an option?
A will target building units, which will end up generating more cost for us.

Mastiff_of_Ar · Jan 7, 2008

Okay, that makes sense. I hate to raze Carthage, though. If we can keep Hannibal in his capitol, he can't tech fast enough to get better units, and we can smash his resources. (And continue to steal workers) If we do that, we can work up to being able to save it... maybe?

Also, I think we have to get IW sooner than later. It's the only other war resource at the moment, and if we know where they are, we can keep them pillaged as well as work our own. It could impact city placement as well. Not only do we want to settle a city with iron, but doesn't it make sense to clear the jungle before we settle? Or at least be able to do it quickly...

Oh, and I'll wait as long as you need to play... you might share the mock up for everyone to mess around with, too.

ArcadicGamer · Jan 8, 2008

We should also take the time to count how many tiles outside our continet would be needed for a DOM. I would imagine we'd be settling 90% of the continent were on anyway, to keep barbs and opponents out.

The current tech path is great, but i would insert IW before CS, as our capitol is already an good producer of units, and getting IW before CS would help the war effort me thinks. (i realize the primary reason for CS is most likely :commerce:

not

but IW is needed for 3 cities to survive pop growth.)

J also has the added benefit of being closer to Alex and busting some more fog for us, and it keeps him from rebuilding whatever city he was putting there. B has the possible disadvatage of meeting that ocean civ and having to protect its fishies with navy.

For the economy, Alex's capitol is the best to take out. He is wonder building, but we could take all them from him fairly easily. I think Capitol pinning Hanny is the best way to approach him, as his capitol dont need to be razed, and we already have him in a pretty bad spot game-wise. We could give a chariot +1 sightrange with the withdraw bonus also, and could always have an eye on his borders from outside them. Possibly two chariots. MM should most likey be last, with his skirmishers and poor cites and military.

More directly, what is our focus for the next 20 turns, as some direction is needed there, obviously CATS should be building, but where are they going once we get 3-4 for a city raid.

ChrisFromLux · Jan 8, 2008

Mastiff_of_Ar said:
I hate to raze Carthage, though. If we can keep Hannibal in his capitol, he can't tech fast enough to get better units, and we can smash his resources. (And continue to steal workers) If we do that, we can work up to being able to save it... maybe?

Why do you hate to raze Carthage? There's nothing important in that city we would need now. Capturing it now would costs us too much maintenance.
The only interesting thing of Carthage is that it's a Holy City. But we don't need this Holy City, as we're going to keep Timbuktu! That's also a Holy City, and 1 religion is definitely enough for our game. We only need a religion for 1

and for the culture ...

I would prefer to get rid of Hannibal, leaving us 2 rivals; Alex should be 'exiled' in Athens, and that way, the only AI left on our continent is MM, who prefers to tech instead of building units, and who has a lot of jungle to get rid of before he starts to be dangerous. Beside that, attacking these Skirmishers in cities will be bloody. They have 7 :strength:

when fortified in normal cities, 9 :strength:

on hill-cities ... not counting any promotions :eek:

Mastiff_of_Ar said:
Also, I think we have to get IW sooner than later. It's the only other war resource at the moment, and if we know where they are, we can keep them pillaged as well as work our own. It could impact city placement as well. Not only do we want to settle a city with iron, but doesn't it make sense to clear the jungle before we settle? Or at least be able to do it quickly...

On this, I agree! But not because of the Iron, as we could simply pillage every AI-mine we find, but because of the jungle we have to get rid off for our cities (A and York, as well as Sparta's banana ...)

ArcadicGamer said:
The current tech path is great, but i would insert IW before CS, as our capitol is already an good producer of units, and getting IW before CS would help the war effort me thinks. (i realize the primary reason for CS is most likely not but IW is needed for 3 cities to survive pop growth.)

If we speak Techs, I think we should continue researching Calendar.

The other option would be Currency, but this 'only' gives 1 more trade-route per city. Every trade-route would only be 1 :commerce:

, making a total of 5 :commerce:

now, 7

if the next 2 cities are founded and connected.

On the other hand, Calendar would 'directly' give us 4 :commerce:

from the dye-plantation near London, but it would also add 2

(Dye and Spices) as well as 1 :health:

(Banana) in all cities, which allows our cities to grow to higher levels, which of course means more pop = more units supported ...!!!

ArcadicGamer said:
For the economy, Alex's capitol is the best to take out. He is wonder building, but we could take all them from him fairly easily. I think Capitol pinning Hanny is the best way to approach him, as his capitol dont need to be razed, and we already have him in a pretty bad spot game-wise. We could give a chariot +1 sightrange with the withdraw bonus also, and could always have an eye on his borders from outside them. Possibly two chariots. MM should most likey be last, with his skirmishers and poor cites and military.

More directly, what is our focus for the next 20 turns, as some direction is needed there, obviously CATS should be building, but where are they going once we get 3-4 for a city raid.

I would go and raze Corinth, Utica and Carthage, for the money this gives us. We should leave MM in peace for now, due to his Skirmishers.

In the meantime, we should make sure that Alex is not building another city and disconnect his Bronze from time to time, while capturing the settlers he tries to build. This should allow us to take him out as soon as we can maintain Athens!

namliaM · Jan 8, 2008

We only need a religion for 1 and for the culture ...

Tho we dont need the holy city, keeping the religion alive would be good. Every religion we can spread is one happy face with FR. On the other hand spreading it is a nightmare, but still...

If we speak Techs, I think we should continue researching Calendar.

The other option would be Currency, but this 'only' gives 1 more trade-route per city. Every trade-route would only be 1, making a total of 5 now, 7 if the next 2 cities are founded and connected.

On the other hand, Calendar would 'directly' give us 4 from the dye-plantation near London, but it would also add 2 (Dye and Spices) as well as 1 (Banana) in all cities, which allows our cities to grow to higher levels, which of course means more pop = more units supported ...!!!

There is only one city at its limits, which is one of our problems... We need them to grow and work cottages!
Each cottage Nothingham, Sparta, London and Horico can work = 2 gpt (pretty soon)
With Horico at size 3 instead of the possible 6. This means it can work 3 cottages for 6 GPT which is +33% of our current net.

Add 4 more from Nottingham or even 10... and we are "back in business" but before Nottingham is up and running we have a slight problem even with the gold mines.

I would go and raze Corinth, Utica and Carthage, for the money this gives us. We should leave MM in peace for now, due to his Skirmishers.

In the meantime, we should make sure that Alex is not building another city and disconnect his Bronze from time to time, while capturing the settlers he tries to build. This should allow us to take him out as soon as we can maintain Athens!

Razing Corinth I have NO issue with but Utica and Carthage? What damage can an AI do with 2 cities? In particular if we keep some units around....
I am a little worried at Nottingham and MM showing up with 2 or more Skirmishers than I am of keeping Hannibal around.

Keep the ideas roling guys...

ChrisFromLux · Jan 8, 2008

namliaM said:
Quick look at the save...
We have 1.64% of the world at our control.
At 21 tiles => The world consists of rougly 1280 land tiles.
At 64% for domination => 820 tiles for domination victory, which is 40! cities (I will be happy if we make it to 4!)

Well, first, namliaM, we made it to >4 cities!!!

But why did I quote this 'old' post ... I have been counting the tiles we can see so far on our continent. That's ~480 tiles (errors included

), so I think we can suggest our continent to have a total of ~500 tiles. If there's no more land east, of course ...

This means a lot of land needed on other continents

SGOTM 06 - Misfits

Deity

former 'Misfit'

Deity

former 'Misfit'

Deity

Warlord

former 'Misfit'

former 'Misfit'

former 'Misfit'

Deity

former 'Misfit'

In his Element

former 'Misfit'

In his Element

Deity

In his Element

Warlord

former 'Misfit'

Deity

former 'Misfit'

Similar threads