SGOTM 06 - The Real Ms. Beyond

[Compromise]

Way to bring us into the Common Era, Archduke; nicely done. I pretty surprised that our iron remains unpillaged. Nice work on the roadbuilding.

I think I'd make the following changes in builds: I'd cancel the monuments in Corinth and Thebes. Also cancel the walls in Thebes. Better to build troops and take Sparta's Stonehenge for free monuments all around.

Also, I think we can put research at 100% for Monarchy. We might get enough money soon enough from capturing Sparta that we'd be able to go 100% all the way.

I think we want Sparta then Athens. Is the intel on Athens current? Still no copper for him?! Good!

Do we know what kind of defense Sparta has? I'm guessing no more than a couple of archers and a couple of chariots. When I took Corinth, it had 2 archers until 2T before I was able to attack when a chariot showed up too. Be sure to bring spears to attack Sparta since they make chariots easy prey.

I'm not sure if you'll be able to take Sparta, but I suspect if not, it will be soon after.

 

[Swiss Pauli]

I've got but I won't play for a day or two in order to get input.

 

[TheArchduke]

I rather support Athens first as it is laughably weak defended, sorry that I couldn´t gather intel on Sparta, but honestly with 3-4 Catapults, our axes and one Elephant we probably crush Alexander easily.

Please do watch Carthage, those Numidians pack a bunch and Hannibal is building them.

 

[Compromise]

Good points. I bet the reason Athens is so poorly defended is that Alex is building us a wonder there, maybe the Pyramids?

But from a logistics standpoint, it's probably better to take Athens first and then move the front to the east.

Elephants handle Numidians nicely, but you're right: we'll need a number of them located properly.

 

[Swiss Pauli]

I'll play this tonight.

 

[Compromise]

I don't have too much to add. Use your best judgment in-game about whether to attack Athens or Sparta first and when you have enough--and the right types of--troops to make the assaults.

It will probably be easier to defend if we take Athens first since the front will then naturally move east. But taking Stonehenge in Sparta first would give our cities more vision sooner and if Alex is building any wonders, it would give him more time to complete them. (Or give him time to hook up copper, which might be worse for us.

 

[Swiss Pauli]

Switched the builds around on the IHT: Jumbo in London (to whip into the cat), Spear in Eleville, Barrack in Thebes. 1 pop whip the cat in York as working the Spices is pretty meh. York can churn 5 turn cats at size 3, so why pay extra maint?

The Spear that dealt with the Numid got Formation and now owns Numids: 95% odds next time around. Hanny will have to come mob-handed to beat him.

But this was all about Alex and his : early on he sends out a lone archer from Athens as I'm checking his defences. Whack! and later I lure his chariot onto our Iron at the end of its turn And best of all:

A Settler party They made a tasty snack and no indigestion either!

The assault on Athens was a bit more taxing: I chose to bomb down defences til 14% with an Acu-cat as the defenders were few. 1st Jumbos died (vs dug in CG3 Archer) then Jumbo 2 wins, lose 2 elite axes, but then mop up:

I finished the turn and stopped here. Switched from Monarchy to Sailing: when London grows we should be able to time Sailing for end of Athenian rebellion, by stagnating it on commerce tiles. Monarchy can then be finished with the Spartan conquest cash.

Instructions for next player

I moved Farsight into the 'hot' zone, as Mansa has no military resources. I had him moving up and down the road to watch for incoming troops each turn.

Cat in Corinth should be whipped next turn. I meant to 2 pop whip the Jumbo but there was too much chop overflow. Sword is lined up to take the overflow in London. Spear lined up in Thebes so that the elite Spear can join the Spartan attack force. Jumbo at Athens badly wounded, so should be promoted to CII so it can join the attack quicker.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm6/The_Real_Ms_Beyond_SG006_AD0185_01.CivWarlordsSave

I see we're beginning to move up the curve a bit: when we take the Christian holy city of Sparta we should start to get back into the pack!

 

[Compromise]

Very well done. Mmmm...tasty settler party.... :Homer drooling:

The next turnset with its focus on getting to--and keeping--Sparta is reasonably clear. Good advice from Swiss.

I do think we need to have a discussion about how many and which cities to found or keep before we get too much past Greece.

I'd like to throw out a potential strategy and see what we think of it: Farm the AIs. Let them keep their cities, but deny them metal and horses. (Maybe we even take all cities from them which have strategic resources.)

The reason for this would be to let them develop cities--including cottages--for us so that we don't have to pay the maintenance on them while they're being improved.

Also, we can try to find a nice number of our own cities (I dunno, 5 or 6?) to keep or found and grow those nicely.

My initial thinking has been that it's better to gain exclusive control over this continent asap, but perhaps it's better for us in the long-term to capture more mature cities when we're better able to support them?

War weariness could be minimized for us by keeping our attacks within our own borders.

I don't know. I'm trying to think of ways that our early army loss can be turned from a flaw to a feature. Does anyone know the details of city maintenance costs (number and distance breakdown) for this size and level of map?

Any thoughts or opinions are welcome.

 

[Compromise]

I just updated the roster and have Lee up next with Kodii on deck. (I still need to get to the "continuing saga" post.)

I haven't looked at the game much, but will probably be able to offer some detailed thoughts tomorrow. I have the impression that we're very close to wiping out Alex altogether.

 

[LKendter]

I just updated the roster and have Lee up next with Kodii on deck. (I still need to get to the "continuing saga" post.)

I don't see a roster in your post. I'm not sure what was "updated".

I have it for tomorrow. I still need to play LK140 tonight.

I have to play then, or you won't see anything before Sunday night. Get your comments in quickly.

 

[Compromise]

I don't see a roster in your post. I'm not sure what was "updated".

So that we always know who's up, I have the roster in post #2 of this thread. Sometimes I'm a day or two behind in moving people from "on deck" to "up", but the order is almost always current.

Playing tomorrow will be great. Please post any comments all!

 

[Kodii]

Not much for the next set anyways... I would say keep building up that army and take Sparta. Perhaps we could then allot our remaining army into pillaging parties for each AI, or immediately invade Carthage.

 

[Swiss Pauli]

I do think we need to have a discussion about how many and which cities to found or keep before we get too much past Greece.

I'd like to throw out a potential strategy and see what we think of it: Farm the AIs. Let them keep their cities, but deny them metal and horses. (Maybe we even take all cities from them which have strategic resources.)

The reason for this would be to let them develop cities--including cottages--for us so that we don't have to pay the maintenance on them while they're being improved.

It's only Prince, so maintenance shouldn't be a problem on our home continent. We should raze sub-optimal sites, but you can see Hanny has settled on Iron, so that one needs to go whatever we decide.

War weariness could be minimized for us by keeping our attacks within our own borders.

Not really the best approach for a Dom/Conq win is it?

I don't know. I'm trying to think of ways that our early army loss can be turned from a flaw to a feature. Does anyone know the details of city maintenance costs (number and distance breakdown) for this size and level of map?

Well, maybe it forced Alex into his mental breakdown: he didn't even mine the copper of re-pasture the sheep, and went worker/settler heavy in Athens. And founded Jesusism to boot

The first attack was a (narrow) failure, but we have proven to ourselves that we can recover from set-backs. With a lack of practice games, we were never going to compete for laurels anyway, so we now have the challenge of a catch-up game, which might be more rewarding than our usual mid-pack game

 

[TheArchduke]

Bah, what is better then to return from a setback.

I never got the feeling that we try to compete for the medals.

Not too much to add here, go after Sparta and build up our army so we can raze most of Carthage next (except for the capital).

If nothing goes wrong we should soon begin to plan our after war moves when we united the continent.

 

[Swiss Pauli]

One more thing for Lee is that there are two workers at Corinth who should farm the bananas next turn. Our new workers at Athens may as well road up the copper and sheep.

Finally, I didn't improve Thebes much as the FPs are too close to Spartan chariots.

 

[LKendter]

One more thing for Lee is that there are two workers at Corinth who should farm the bananas next turn.

That just sounds so whacked.
If it is the best action I will do it, but spending worker that you know will be throw away later never sits rights with it.

 

[Swiss Pauli]

That just sounds so whacked.
If it is the best action I will do it, but spending worker that you know will be throw away later never sits rights with it.

I meant to get round to answering this earlier, but will do so know. What you need to look at is the other options for the workers at the given time. In the case of the banana farms, London and Corinth lack food and improving the banana will give a 4-0-1, but farming the grass will give a 3-0-1. So the temporary banana-farm gives a better yield than the permanent farm.

If one is running slavery then you can whip away citizens working unattractive tiles, so the extra worker turns spent on temporary improvements are not wasted because of the superior yield during their lifetime. Thus the dyes cottage (which we should keep forever as we'll get some more IIRC), and the (temporary) banana cottage at London are good investments.

Indeed, in LK140 Lincoln made a banana-cottage at London, which means Blake thinks it's a good idea, too. And he's a lot better than me at CIV

 

[ruff_hi]

My fav commerce city is one with lots of sugar. I leave one non-improved and cottage the rest. They are just like floodplains without the health hit.

 

[Compromise]

I use the same reasoning that Swiss has posted. Especially considering that we may want to delay Calendar because of soon-to-be-ours Stonehenge.

Good point, ruff. Especially true in a game like this with no trades to the AI.

 

[sunrise089]

My fav commerce city is one with lots of sugar. I leave one non-improved and cottage the rest. They are just like floodplains without the health hit.

Mine is one with 20 grassland gems

But yeah, I agree w/ the majority about the banana farm. The simple fact is that by the time we can build the plantation, we'll probably have excess worker turns anyways, so we get bonus food now with no later penalty.