SGOTM 06 - The Real Ms. Beyond

Notice that we do have a line of mountains that will act as a block to AI advances. This means that there are only a few passes that need watching. Note: I don't think that this is an excuse to turtle (that way lies defeat).
 
Good thinking bringing an axe down asap to pillage the copper.

Mansa has his capital on a hill, which is onfortunate. I will check the save tomorow.
 
How effective would setting up pillaging parties for each AI be? (after the Greek campaign)

It could potentially be nasty to our economy, but it'd slow down the AI a lot... I guess its the sort of thing a test game can smooth out....
 
Since this is Prince-level, I'm thinking we might be able to use chariots to keep the AI from hooking up any strategic resources. At least until we finish off Alex.

I'm going on the assumption that Hannibal has a hill-capital too. I think that's what Gyathaar did for SGOTM5 too.

We'll probably know in 4-5 more game turns whether we can deny Athens its copper and more details about Hannibal's capital. But I wanted to stop to discuss what tech and how to build. We will certainly want troops in the homeland, but I'm less worried about that since we are big enough to whip and we have at least one chariot for rapid movement.
 
York gets to size 4 with the spice forest, and the hill. Once we get a grassland cottage going it can work that at size 5. That will at least partially pay for the cost of the city.

I agree with roads between our cities as goal #1 as that adds $2 to the economy. We can then connect the gold and that will let York work 2 cottages, and London work some. That will help the economy short term.

Based on the do or die mentally, my gut says to simply click on construction. The problem is right now we need an obscene 83 turns. We won't get this in a reasonable time frame without some cottages and / or nice pillaging / razing income.

I noticed the nice elephant patch. We are going to need to make sure that either we grab this, or at least keep the AI way once construction is close.
 
It's great that we can now see the lay of the land. I still favour taking Athens, but I think we should consider claiming the Iron and doing it with Swords. We can either settle on the Iron, or on the hill 1NE of it. My preference is slightly for the latter option.

Good move to get the chariot to level two (for Medic I presume) :goodjob: And good to see that the good can be lucky with that Coppersquat nailing that archer!

With a third seafood now revealed, Athens can work the Gold and still grow :eek: Alex will have horses online at Sparta soon, so we should train a spear before too long, and maybe squat on those horses.
 
In my opinion if we wait for swords we will loose valuable time, give Alex more time to buildup and one axe alone negates any bonues or advantage the swordsman has over the axeman.

If we wait for construction for alex we can already plan to turtle up if you ask me.:P
 
Axes are pretty poor against Archers, so I think a mix of Axes and Swords will take down Athens: the CR Sword promo will negate the Axe bonus, so it's not too bad.

If there's an archer on the copper at Athens, we can also cut the road (if it exists) in order to disconnect the copper. In my test game, Alex spent quite a few worker turns trying to connect his cities; let's hope he does the same here.
 
Kodii: I'm assuming you want a skip so I've put Archduke up next. If you want to play the next set, let us know and Archduke can go on deck.

Ruff_hi: good to have you still involved!

Thoughts:

York: I've left our core very poorly defended, so I think our first priority is to get some military trained there. Until the road to London is complete, York can only train chariots. While in the future there are some grasslands there that can get cottages, I think it's best in the short term (next couple turnsets) for it to just pump military at size three while working cows, horses and hill mine.

London: I'd have this pump military too. In an emergency, we've got the population for two whipped axes. But I'd rather have a barracks first. (I think I postponed the barracks for the granary.)

Core defense: I'd be happy with 5 or 6 units (plus "virtual units" meaning high population in London) playing zone defense between London and York.

Very-near-term builds: Once we get a credible defense around the core, let's consider whether/how to acquire Iron.

Tech route: I think Construction is next. I'd go Writing, Math, Masonry, Construction. If we just click on Construction, Math will be delayed for Masonry.

Next turnset:

If we're agreed on the immediate builds and tech choice (I say Writing and military builds in both cities), I wouldn't mind a two-part turnset. Within just a few turns, we'll know if we can deny Alex his copper and probably what Hannibal's capital looks like. Use the culture to determine where the Carthaginian capital is and don't end the warrior's turn near it! Otherwise, he'll probably suffer the same fate as our copper-finding warrior near Athens.

Edit: Longer term strategy

I think there are three very different paths we can take from here. One is the early aggression route. Variations are either a pure axe rush on Alex (or maybe Mansa) or an iron grab and a straight sword assault. We'd need to have a few units (at least potentials) at our core to handle the assaults which will probably start soon.

The other route is a kind of turtle: beeline to Construction asap. This means working gold and cottages. It may even mean founding a city SE of London to work the other gold mine (fed by rice). Workers would be setting up roads toward the enemy. By the time Construction is discovered, we would have in place a city (founded or captured) to connect ivory. This delays our assault a bit because of the need to tech to Construction, but then we'll be attacking with Cats and Elephants. This combination is probably unstoppable.

Obviously, we're heading for cats and elephants anyway, but the question is whether that's a priority.

I'm curious...is this something we want to try to run some test games on? I'm willing, but it will probably result in a 1-2 week delay in the actual game.
 
Another edit to the preceding post: We could also do a horse-archer rush, but I think this is less desirable than either an axe or a cat/phant rush.
 
One is the early aggression route.
This is outside of my normal play mode so I can't offer a lot of details. However, IMHO this route is a must. Even if it is just pillaging our local AI to death to support faster science and delay them.
 
A critical part of the cataphant choice would be pillage parties to the other AIs. We want to deny them strategic resources and we want to delay their acquisition of longbows for...well forever!

A bonus of the pillage choice is that we might catch some new-city teams that would provide workers for us.
 
I think you're planning far too many units for homeland defence: the AI is more interested in settling at this point than in sending serious stacks our way, and this will be the case for a while yet. Hannibal put 4 cities down before sending his first, lone axe my way in my test game.

Can someone do the maths on 1 pop whipping from York at size three? Working the plains mine isn't great, but would whipping then re-growing be any better?

I favour straight military, zero research, settle the Iron then send a dozen strong assault team to Athens (whipping/chopping out a few swords from London to add to the axes, medic chariot, and token spear).

I think turtling until Jumbopult would be suicide: we just wouldn't have the production to see off three AIs, whilst supporting pillaging parties to keep them in check, and teching well enough to get to Construction. Jumbopult should let us polish off Hannibal and Mansa, after we've taken care of Greece ASAP.
 
A critical part of the cataphant choice would be pillage parties to the other AIs. We want to deny them strategic resources and we want to delay their acquisition of longbows for...well forever!
By denying them resources, we'll only push then faster in the direction of Feudalism. Mansa should be the final AI to destroy as his LBs are relatively less painful than those of Hannibal.
 
We have enough now to put together pillage teams (spear, axe, chariot - first two playing defense, last one doing the pillaging, group moves, chariot pillages, end of turn). Two chariots will enable you to pillage mine and road on single turn.

Consider Flanking then Sentry promotion for chariot - then they can see 2 tiles instead of 1.

Given the capitals on hills, I think cats might be the order of the day. A third city to grab that extra gold would help, pillaging to provide cash to finance deficit research.

Edit: that said - swiss raises some good points re early sword rush - that cash could also fund deficit research.
 
BTW - we are currently middle of the pack score and power-wise - meaning we haven't made any mis-steps (visa vie the other teams), nor have we made the killer move.

Maybe a quick ramp up in power, take Athens and then roll on will kick us on to victory.

powerpl0.gif
 
I want to throw out another bit of trivia. In beakers, (Mysticism + Meditation + Priesthood) < Mathematics < Construction. I don't know what a normal build time for the Oracle is with these settings, but this would be a way of converting hammers to beakers. If successful, it also denies the AI the Oracle. (Of course, if it fails, it probably prevents us from placing well in the SGOTM standings.) Just a thought.
 
Does anyone know if barbs or the AI will pillage roads that it finds outside cultural borders? I'm wondering if any road network that we construct between widely separated cities would need to be protected.
 
They only pillage improvements within your borders.
 
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