SGOTM 06 - Xteam

[Frederiksberg]

Now that the capture of Persepolis is delayed at least one turn we should build an archer in Parsagadea. After building it for one turn it can be whipped for 45 hammers and with the overflow we can build a chariot if Persepolis is gone by then.

 

[leif erikson]

I think building an Archer would be a wise move. We may need him.

I had another thought. I wonder if we work to keep the units damaged in Persepolis while eliminating as many as we can, if that Barb Axe might finish the job for us, once he takes our Sword?

Anyone know of the chance the Barb will have of going for a city instead of us?

 

[Cactus Pete]

I'm in agreement with everyone else . . . let's go ahead and attack Persepolis with the WE and then throw everything else we have at it, regardless of whether or not the WE wins. The one bit of tactic that I'd mention is to save the chariot until the axe is the chosen defender (which should be after the spear), then attack with the chariot. I don't think the axe will defend, but hopefully the weaker archer will, and the chariot will eliminate him so we won't have to deal with either archer promoted and partially healed next turn. Our 2 cats and the chariot should earn a healing promotion, so I think our chances of taking the city next turn are pretty good.

Probably want to vacate PARS to draw the axe/cat there, rather than back into Gordium. Like to see the barb axe head that way, after it takes out our sword.

After the rest of the PERS attack, perhaps another pause for discussion might be in order if JT wants consultation on the growing number of defenders in Damascus.

Not sure JT will want to do this, but the Medina WE can get to Damascus in three turns if 3 of the Medina workers build a forest road for him.

"At least we can pop-rush an Archer in Haithabu to keep the Arab Warrior at bay. It believe it will appear before the Warrior can attack." I don't see this as a problem, even if he takes the city.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Looked at the save again . . . couple of thoughts:

If we take Nidaros this turn, we can probably afford to upgrade the archer in Ecbatana to a Xbow this turn and load it onto Shannon's Raiders next turn (along with the wounded WE and the wounded crossbow on the hill (probably better than a cat, since there are two metal units near Gordium).

I'm strongly leaning toward sending MP's FL to chain with CB, because that will get the three powerful units aboard CB to Damascus one turn earlier, thereby allowing them to attack twice in 5 turns if necessary. The wounded Medina sword would then go to Susa for possible mop up duty, and the Medina WE will probably be most needed in Damascus, but he can be sent NW and his final destination determined after we see what is in Susa now.

It is unclear to me why an archer would be superior to a cat in Pasargadae.

 

[Frederiksberg]

If we take Nidaros this turn, we can probably afford to upgrade the archer in Ecbatana to a Xbow this turn and load it onto Shannon's Raiders next turn (along with the wounded WE and the wounded crossbow on the hill (probably better than a cat, since there are two metal units near Gordium).

I'm strongly leaning toward sending MP's FL to chain with CB, because that will get the three powerful units aboard CB to Damascus one turn earlier, thereby allowing them to attack twice in 5 turns if necessary. The wounded Medina sword would then go to Susa for possible mop up duty, and the Medina WE will probably be most needed in Damascus, but he can be sent NW and his final destination determined after we see what is in Susa now.

I agree with all this.

It is unclear to me why an archer would be superior to a cat in Pasargadae.

We don't have time to build a cat since it's too expensive (60 hammers) and with Parsagadea at pop 3 we can only whip one pop. Unfortunately the delayed capture of Persepolis also means that starvation will continue in Parsagadea and next turn is the last chance to do any whipping there i.e. no chariot can be built afterwards as far as I remember.

 

[ShannonCT]

Tough luck, JT. BTW, wasn't it the French that beat you? That should have told us something.

I'll have time to look at the save in about 12 hours.

Where's SCT? Is he playing hooky from the haka, or has his flu turned into pneumonia?

Sorry. I hope my not performing the haka, whatever that is, hasn't brought us the bad luck. I have recovered from my flu but now I am in Hong Kong for 2 weeks.

I can't help much more than to say: press on with the attack in Persepolis. There's no other choice. I'll google "haka" and perform one tomorrow if it's not too obscene.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Sorry. I hope my not performing the haka, whatever that is, hasn't brought us the bad luck. I have recovered from my flu but now I am in Hong Kong for 2 weeks. Glad to know you're healthy.

I can't help much more than to say: press on with the attack in Persepolis. There's no other choice. I'll google "haka" and perform one tomorrow if it's not too obscene.

Now that's team spirit (and there is redeeming, though perhaps anti-social, virtue) . . . leif has provided a link, post 1364 or close to it.

 

[Cactus Pete]

"It is unclear to me why an archer would be superior to a cat in Pasargadae."

We don't have time to build a cat since it's too expensive (60 hammers) and with Parsagadea at pop 3 we can only whip one pop. Unfortunately the delayed capture of Persepolis also means that starvation will continue in Parsagadea and next turn is the last chance to do any whipping there i.e. no chariot can be built afterwards as far as I remember.

I'm probably missing something, but it looks to me like there are 61 hammers available to build a cat IBT, then there will be starvation down to two pop, but at that point stagnant growth, not decreasing to one pop. We could start either an archer or a chariot (if PERS falls) after the cat comes out and be able to whip it the following turn. It might only be useful to defend PARS (archer) or attack Gordium (chariot), but it's not clear what a better outcome would be.

 

[Frederiksberg]

I'm probably missing something, but it looks to me like there are 61 hammers available to build a cat IBT, then there will be starvation down to two pop, but at that point stagnant growth, not decreasing to one pop. We could start either an archer or a chariot (if PERS falls) after the cat comes out and be able to whip it the following turn. It might only be useful to defend PARS (archer) or attack Gordium (chariot), but it's not clear what a better outcome would be.

I have now looked at the latest save. You are right there is a large overflow we can use to build the cat. It wasn't very obvious from the previous save.

Maybe JT should post again when we know the outcome of the Persepolis attack. Depending on what happens we may have to divert units towards Persepolis. We also need to keep an eye on the economy. We only have money for one more turn so unless we capture a city next turn we must revolt to Monarchy. This will buy some time (2 turns) and it will also improve economy slightly.

 

[Jimmy Thunder]

I'm drip feeding you guys.

The outcome of the rest of the Persepolis attack was good. After the WE won his battle the cats and chariot attacked at 90%+ odds. There is now a single badly wounded axe left. Phew.

That's all I've done for now. The save is attached to discuss any changes in troop movements or builds in Mecca/Pasargardae. Note that Damascus has 4 strong archers and 2 chariots.

Also, if we are to attack Nidaros this turn... feel free to post a plan for the best use of our units there to save me some time and thinking (I have already bombarded with a single unpromoted catapult there).

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/114316/SGOTM_after_pers_battle_Churchill_AD-0680.CivWarlordsSave

 

[Frederiksberg]

The outcome of the rest of the Persepolis attack was good. After the WE won his battle the cats and chariot attacked at 90%+ odds. There is now a single badly wounded axe left. Phew.

Nice! I notice that Persepolis didn't go down in pop so there is a good chance that no new unit will appear next turn.

That's all I've done for now. The save is attached to discuss any changes in troop movements or builds in Mecca/Pasargardae. Note that Damascus has 4 strong archers and 2 chariots.

With another archer in Damascus it would make a lot of sense to build the road on the forest tile 2S2E of Damascus instead of chopping as CP suggests. Then we can move the WE there in time to attack on T215.

Also, if we are to attack Nidaros this turn... feel free to post a plan for the best use of our units there to save me some time and thinking (I have already bombarded with a single unpromoted catapult there).

Whatever we do I think it's important that we deal with the two Viking Horse Archers. It would be a nightmare if they started roaming around. Attacking next turn is also good since we have gold for one more turn.

 

[Jimmy Thunder]

OSS have finished too since I've seen their team members reading other threads over the last 24hours. I'm sure they have played a very strong game and may have pushed silver beyond our reach.

Will be nice when we take our final city and can read up on the competition. Seems like it has been the closest SGOTM yet!

 

[Frederiksberg]

Yes, their last save was T206 so it's not unlikely that they have finished earlier than T215 which is the best that we can hope for.

There is no sign of heavy whipping in the graphs of Smurkz and Gypsy Kings. Hopefully this means that we can get at least bronze if we finish before CRC.

 

[rrau]

Damascus is whipping archers......We need to be pillaging the farms while waiting for more troops.

 

[Cactus Pete]

"Whatever we do I think it's important that we deal with the two Viking Horse Archers. It would be a nightmare if they started roaming around. Attacking next turn is also good since we have gold for one more turn."

If we wait to attack Nidaros next turn, then we can't upgrade the archer in Ecbatana to a Xbow this turn and put him aboard Shannon's Raiders next turn, because our economy would go into the red IBT.

We can deal with the Nidaros HA's. Here's how JT might go about it:
Promote cat south of NID to 2CR/collateral damage and attack with it.
Attack with 1CR cat on same tile.
(Not clear to me if there is another cat available, but, if so, he should be used at this point)
Promote sword south of NID to 3CR and attack with it.
Choice of subsequent attackers will depend on damage done to defending units, but JT will have many units available, including a 2-move WE SE of the city and total of six units in galleons within easy sailing distance of the city. Indeed, if the attack requires all available landed WE to be utilized, we could keep the city and the galleon NW of the city could sail into its harbor and unleach its 2 WE's on the Viking horse archers in the forest and still be able to deposit its cat on the tile NW of Uppsala this turn.

Regarding Persepolis . . . Unless another unit shows up in Gordium IBT, the axe might best be attacked with the promoted CR2 cat, saving other units. If we keep the city, the axe will likely take it and stay in it for the rest of the game to heal.

Pasardadae should build a cat, followed by a chariot. There is the possibility of chopping an archer for defense, although the workers might also be used to distract units.

Cat and sword in Mecca go to Kufah and another cat built whose marching orders can be based on events.

At Damascus, move sword, WE, and cat (in galleon) onto flood plain west of city this turn. The trick in Damascus is probably going to be to use the swords first in order to leave a WE(s) to mop up any surviving archer (who'll defend in lieu of a chariot against a WE) that is not very badly wounded and hopefully leave only chariots and <1 archers alive for the second attack.

Need to see what's in Susa before finalizing plans everywhere. Suggest move worker to 1SE, then if safe move to tile 2NE of city to try to entice cat in that direction if that tile is not safe, move to NE onto forest.

 

[Cactus Pete]

"Yes, their last save was T206 so it's not unlikely that they have finished earlier than T215 which is the best that we can hope for." Doubt it, but they could be dissembling to get other teams to take risks, which brings up the possibility of taking the opposite tact and posting a save after 214.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Damascus is whipping archers......We need to be pillaging the farms while waiting for more troops.

Good idea to pillage the farm that we move troops onto west of the city, but the chariots together are likely to attack any troops not defended by our WE (even if they are not favored -- saw this in the last game), so that's probably all we can do.

 

[DJMGator13]

Gold for one more turn - don't forget we have a spot for a gold wall chop city back home between Carthage and Bantu.

A captured city would be better but we might need both before this is over.

 

[Frederiksberg]

"Whatever we do I think it's important that we deal with the two Viking Horse Archers. It would be a nightmare if they started roaming around. Attacking next turn is also good since we have gold for one more turn."

If we wait to attack Nidaros next turn, then we can't upgrade the archer in Ecbatana to a Xbow this turn and put him aboard Shannon's Raiders next turn, because our economy would go into the red IBT.

We can deal with the Nidaros HA's. Here's how JT might go about it:
Promote cat south of NID to 2CR/collateral damage and attack with it.
Attack with 1CR cat on same tile.
(Not clear to me if there is another cat available, but, if so, he should be used at this point)
Promote sword south of NID to 3CR and attack with it.
Choice of subsequent attackers will depend on damage done to defending units, but JT will have many units available, including a 2-move WE SE of the city and total of six units in galleons within easy sailing distance of the city. Indeed, if the attack requires all available landed WE to be utilized, we could keep the city and the galleon NW of the city could sail into its harbor and unleach its 2 WE's on the Viking horse archers in the forest and still be able to deposit its cat on the tile NW of Uppsala this turn.

Regarding Persepolis . . . Unless another unit shows up in Gordium IBT, the axe might best be attacked with the promoted CR2 cat, saving other units. If we keep the city, the axe will likely take it and stay in it for the rest of the game to heal.

Pasardadae should build a cat, followed by a chariot. There is the possibility of chopping an archer for defense, although the workers might also be used to distract units.

Cat and sword in Mecca go to Kufah and another cat built whose marching orders can be based on events.

At Damascus, move sword, WE, and cat (in galleon) onto flood plain west of city this turn. The trick in Damascus is probably going to be to use the swords first in order to leave a WE(s) to mop up any surviving archer (who'll defend in lieu of a chariot against a WE) that is not very badly wounded and hopefully leave only chariots and <1 archers alive for the second attack.

Need to see what's in Susa before finalizing plans everywhere. Suggest move worker to 1SE, then if safe move to tile 2NE of city to try to entice cat in that direction if that tile is not safe, move to NE onto forest.

Sounds good. Remember to do the Nidaros attack as the first thing particularly before upgrading the xbow so that we can adapt if something goes wrong.

Gold for one more turn - don't forget we have a spot for a gold wall chop city back home between Carthage and Bantu.

A captured city would be better but we might need both before this is over.

We can start a settler in Carthage and move workers down there for prechopping. It's unlikely that we can chop the gold before the game is over but there is little else we can do anyway.

 

[Cactus Pete]

"We can start a settler in Carthage and move workers down there for prechopping. It's unlikely that we can chop the gold before the game is over but there is little else we can do anyway."

Can't argue with that.

Following up on rrau's concerns . . . we might want to take a turn for the WE south of Suza to pillage the rice before proceeding to the city in order to reduce the probability of whipping. BTW, my last look at Susa had 5 units there -- 2 single-promoted archers, a spear, and 2 cats.