In my unfortunate test game, Bismark showed this, and of course i was the lowest in score. There should be some more "keys" to activate this.
TS plan:
- Let research to 0% for 1 turn (with 2 scientists it's not exactly so)
- While working crabs and mined marble (city starves)
Then alternate crabs+marble and crabs *2 to stay at size 4.
- Production: finish the warrior, then barracks: if i get archery, i'll start an archer, then switch to barracks at 1 turn to complete.
- Worker on marble, road+quarry - but also viceversa, we can have both techs on the first round, then stone
Trades:
first round:
wri to HC for Myst or archery
wri to Izzy for masonry
wri to KK for wheel+Myst (sure like hell, WT: KK goes for IW not religions, mainly with that neighbour)
second round:
plan A wri+Myst to Fred for BW
plan B wri+masonry to Alex for BW
guitar solo to try to grab the most with the minimum
research Poly (but let's see how it goes)
third round:
we can now consider to give away alpha for:
- Mathematics
- IW
or for some combo of techs i can have missed in the 2nd round
Lemme re-read the post about this and edit before to comment - edit: done.
I've seen the posts about the target victory, i don't wanna comment now, i'll wait to finish my TS.
I'll play in some 4-8 hours from this post.
TS plan:
- Let research to 0% for 1 turn (with 2 scientists it's not exactly so)
- While working crabs and mined marble (city starves)
Then alternate crabs+marble and crabs *2 to stay at size 4.
- Production: finish the warrior, then barracks: if i get archery, i'll start an archer, then switch to barracks at 1 turn to complete.
- Worker on marble, road+quarry - but also viceversa, we can have both techs on the first round, then stone
Trades:
first round:
wri to HC for Myst or archery
wri to Izzy for masonry
wri to KK for wheel+Myst (sure like hell, WT: KK goes for IW not religions, mainly with that neighbour)
Why not use the avoid growth button instead (if it works the way Sabre said). I've never tried it.
We don't need any money now, certainly not just 15 gold. So leave research at 100% and put it into Poly on the first turn. In my test game, Alex traded writing for Poly with 1 turn of research. I reloaded and tried again with NO research in Poly and he would not trade. We'll probably have to research Poly ourselves. Why would we risk wasting a whole turn of research for 15 gold?
Good production plan.
Don't quarry the stone this early. The tile goes from 5 hammers to...5 hammers.
Trades: You have Myst twice in the plan. Which are you actually planning to do? I think it's a mistake to trade with KK on round 1. We don't need wheel because our worker has to move this turn.
Agree, let's at least go to Civil Service and see how the Drama trade pans out.
Interesting article. Now I have another reason to not trade for archery (which I never do anyway.) Many of the AI will cut us off after 5 trades. Let's get he important stuff first. If we get Copper, won't we just build axemen/spear? So shouldn't we trade for BW and then decide if we even need archery? In other words, no archery on trade round 1.
Being near the bottom (which we will always be with OCC) can't be the "cure-all" for trade issues. Almost no one will trade in my test game.
I think it's possible to execute a "domination-lite" victory. I haven't been able to truly get a peaceful diplomatic victory, or even come close. I think we are certainly on a 2-3 continent map. At some point we'll have to invade and clear out major portions of the world. With this many AI though it makes things so much more complex and brings into it much luck. The more I think I'm starting to wonder if conquest is the way this thing will be won.
I have to think Murky will attempt it and so will the Russians.
There is set of ultra-friendly ai that work well together. There are some AI like Peter, or maybe Mao, or Saladin, that can play nice in small numbers, but you can't mix those with the "ultra-friendly" AI. You'll almost never see arguments among these 11: Indians, Americans, Fredrick, Cyrus, Hatty, Mansa, English, and even Bismarck.
"You stopped trading with us" is much longer. Seems to last forever. Canceling OB has no ill effect.
The most interesting .cpp files are probably those with AI in the file name. CvPlayerAI (where the code I posted was from), CvTeamAI, CvUnitAI, etc. They're in the CvGameCoreDLL directory.
When were you thinking we'd finish our Diplo game? 1400 ? 1500 ?
Until I got bumped off the #1 spot on the last update , I had:
1390 AD , Deity, Standard, Normal Speed, OCC, Space Race with Qin even!
and
1595 AD , Deity, Tiny, Normal speed, OCC, Space Race with Cyrus.
The Cyrus game was my first attempt ever, so I hadn't figured out much strategy at that point. We should be able to get close to that. Sub 1700 AD I would hope. This will be a great time to re-claim those HOF spots with practice games. I encourage everyone to try a test game with just 2-4 AI. It's fun and you might even get a #1 spot. The Tiny map size has the easiest date to beat right now, 1583 AD.
Many people attempt culture wins on Deity only to get beat by an AI spaceship. That could be our spaceship!
I got Myst twice 'cause we got 2 chances, but if you think it's better wait for trade with KK, and wait for the wheel too (you explained it, but i can't see why).
There's one thing we (me) forget: if we got Myst this first round we can immediatly switch to poly, without loosing turns.
I'm still convinced we must have the wheel on the first round, let's see why:
- HC no, writing is not enough
- Alex and Fred no, they're targets for BW
- Izzy no, we plan to trade masonry
- Wash no, we better trade with him later, the late he builds libraries, the better for our culture battle
who remains?
KK, and i'm strongly oriented to him: no chances he's got something interesting on round 2, and we can trade with HC only to gain some better relation, it's not a good trade.
We can wait for archery, and there's sailing on the table, we can obtain it from both Fred or Alex, after we have choosen one for BW.
I used sometime the "avoid growth" button, i can turn it on, but my plan to alternate seem good enough (the AG on can be useful for distractions, just in case)
Archery: i'd like to have it, just in case the Evil Viking gave us Iron (the more i think, the more i think he did, see our UU) andd IW comes a bit late, and it's useful not only for archers, but for any archery unit, included our powerful Cho-ko-nu.
We can trade for it in 2nd round with Wash.
Probably every AI already has pottery, but we'll have spended writing with all the AI lacking it, so not easy to have it: i can change archery with pottery with Wash, and keep fingers crossed for our safety (not that archery changes too much, there're already 6 archers only guarding Rome's copper or iron, enough to wipe us even with a couple of archers).
Probably we can obtain archery together with IW for alpha, if the possible partner is researching something different, still i'm more than worried for our safety.
Anyway, i'll try for the best, keeping in mind your suggestions, but improvising as the situation will evolve, and ask.
I'll play straight to the end of my TS (unless someone DoW us), in 2-3 hours from now, so if you got some complaints, go ahead.
WT, your Deity (not clear why you and others continue to write diety: are you over weighted, perhaps? something Freudian? ) tiny Diplo was on 1180, and your SR on 1595.
But i think your reason is in the difficulty to reach a diplo win in this scenario, not else (and i intuitively agree).
One last thing: which tech do you choose with liberalism? not radio, i suppose
And this changes from Diplo to SR?
The civ you're trading with must also be near the bottom. Which means we'll want to avoid backwards AI. We might even want to gift some techs to the backwards civs.
The avoid growth button does indeed work. The city just stops growing at 1 turn before growth, without regard to the food produced. I usually don't use this, because I have other tiles I can work for gain, but in this case it may make sense, if we don't have a use for the hammers we gain using the "starvation method".
With regard to the time taken for space race, mine usually don't come until the 18th century at least... I guess deity really speeds the tech pace. It's been my experience with SGOTMs that in the absence of a required victory condition, conquest is always the fastest path to victory, although it's probably unlikely in this scenario.
Damn, not the time to edit a post that an entire tribe of strange guys will crosspost.
OK guys, go back to read my previous one, it's strongly edited
A conquest is a nightmare with the Ais ready to fill the room you left.
In the game linked by Sweeta on the first page i manage it, but i could produce a Mech or a Tank/turn with overflow, and i had to fight with cavalries and infantry in the worst situation.
In cases where I'm not going for diplo, I try to build the UN anyway, in the hopes of controlling the vote and not getting back-doored by somebody else. This may not be practical in this situation, but somebody else controlling it worries me a bit.
In cases where I'm not going for diplo, I try to build the UN anyway, in the hopes of controlling the vote and not getting back-doored by somebody else. This may not be practical in this situation, but somebody else controlling it worries me a bit.
Murky took virtually our same path to the library getting it out in perhaps one fewer turns than we did. I'm convinced Trash got an early religion adoption and as such we only finished one turn behind murky in the fast library sweepstakes. They (murky) have built one more military unit (or more) at this point. There are some pretty late libraries getting built.
You said you're convinced we need wheel 1st round and then never explained why it can't wait until round 2. Who would have ever guessed that Izzy was the only way we'd get masonry? How can you know KK won't have something better for us than wheel? I find him to be one of the best tech traders (of the crazies.)
Usually Astronomy is best free via Liberalism no matter which way we go. It gets us the observatory.
Here is your Session Turn Log from 2120 BC to 1800 BC:
Turn 47, 2120 BC: OK, that's me done. It's trading time, as the warrior reaches Rome.
Turn 47, 2120 BC: Fred - wheel
Turn 47, 2120 BC: KK - myst and wheel
Turn 47, 2120 BC: Alex - myst and wheel
Turn 47, 2120 BC: HC - myst
Turn 47, 2120 BC: Izzy - myst and wheel
Turn 47, 2120 BC: Wash - myst and wheel
Turn 47, 2120 BC: You have discovered Masonry!
Turn 47, 2120 BC: worker on marble - city works marble - scientists OK
Turn 47, 2120 BC: You have discovered Mysticism!
Turn 47, 2120 BC: You have discovered The Wheel!
Turn 47, 2120 BC: Confucianism has been founded in a distant land!
Turn 47, 2120 BC: The Oracle has been built in a far away land!
Turn 48, 2080 BC: in a distant land someone used the Oracle for CoL
Turn 48, 2080 BC: Myst+Wri are not enough for Fred, plan B
Turn 48, 2080 BC: You have discovered Bronze Working!
Turn 48, 2080 BC: ok, we're sitting on copper
Turn 48, 2080 BC: You have discovered Polytheism!
Turn 48, 2080 BC: wri to Wash for Poly, Literature due in 11
Turn 48, 2080 BC: in 9, i'm back to 2 crabs
Turn 49, 2040 BC: You have discovered Pottery!
Turn 49, 2040 BC: Julius Caesar converts to Buddhism!
Turn 49, 2040 BC: Elizabeth converts to Hinduism!
Turn 49, 2040 BC: The Pyramids has been built in a far away land!
Turn 49, 2040 BC: Isabella adopts Organized Religion!
Turn 50, 2000 BC: You have discovered Sailing!
Turn 50, 2000 BC: You have discovered Archery!
Turn 50, 2000 BC: You have discovered Iron Working!
Turn 50, 2000 BC: Washington adopts Organized Religion!
Turn 53, 1880 BC: New Tech(s) to trade: Washington, Elizabeth
Turn 53, 1880 BC: Julius Caesar has completed The Great Lighthouse!
Turn 54, 1840 BC: Elizabeth adopts Organized Religion!
The autolog
Spoiler:
Beijing begins: Barracks (30 turns) Tech learned: Masonry User comment: worker on marble - city works marble - scientists OK Tech learned: Mysticism Research begun: Polytheism (15 Turns) Tech learned: The Wheel
IBT: Confucianism founded in a distant land Attitude Change: Asoka(India) towards Kublai Khan(Mongolia), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed' Attitude Change: Kublai Khan(Mongolia) towards Huayna Capac(Inca), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
Turn 48/460 (2080 BC) [05-May-2008 21:22:59] User comment: in a distant land someone used the Oracle for CoL User comment: Myst+Wri are not enough for Fred, plan B Tech learned: Bronze Working User comment: ok, we're sitting on copper Tech learned: Polytheism Research begun: Literature (11 Turns) User comment: wri to Wash for Poly, Literature due in 11 User comment: in 9, i'm back to 2 crabs
IBT: Attitude Change: Asoka(India) towards Kublai Khan(Mongolia), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious' Attitude Change: Kublai Khan(Mongolia) towards Huayna Capac(Inca), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
IBT: State Religion Change: Julius Caesar(Rome) from 'no State Religion' to 'Buddhism' State Religion Change: Elizabeth(England) from 'no State Religion' to 'Hinduism' Attitude Change: Washington(America) towards Julius Caesar(Rome), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed' Attitude Change: Julius Caesar(Rome) towards Washington(America), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed' Attitude Change: Julius Caesar(Rome) towards Isabella(Spain), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased' Attitude Change: Asoka(India) towards Kublai Khan(Mongolia), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed' Attitude Change: Elizabeth(England) towards Asoka(India), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased' Attitude Change: Huayna Capac(Inca) towards Julius Caesar(Rome), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious' Attitude Change: Isabella(Spain) towards Julius Caesar(Rome), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased' Civics Change: Isabella(Spain) from 'Paganism' to 'Organized Religion'
IBT: Civics Change: Washington(America) from 'Paganism' to 'Organized Religion'
Turn 51/460 (1960 BC) [05-May-2008 22:01:33]
IBT:
Turn 52/460 (1920 BC) [05-May-2008 22:05:30]
IBT:
Turn 53/460 (1880 BC) [05-May-2008 22:14:57]
IBT:
Turn 54/460 (1840 BC) [05-May-2008 22:29:35]
IBT: Attitude Change: Julius Caesar(Rome) towards Huayna Capac(Inca), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious' Attitude Change: Asoka(India) towards SGOTM07(China), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased' Attitude Change: Kublai Khan(Mongolia) towards Frederick(Germany), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious' Civics Change: Elizabeth(England) from 'Paganism' to 'Organized Religion'
Turn 55/460 (1800 BC) [05-May-2008 22:33:30]
My highlights and some more:
turn 47
wri to Izzy for masonry
wri to HC for Myst (research switched to Poly)
wri to KK for wheel
turn 48
Only wash has Poly, out of the AIs without wri
Fred refuses BW for wri + Myst, so
wri to Wash for Poly (set literature, in 11 or 9 turns)
wri+masonry to Alex for BW (and we're sitting on copper)
turn 49
our trades with KK and Alex gave us a nice +1
Poly to HC for pottery
turn 50
damn we lost our +1 with Alex... no negatives, it's simply gone
pottery+Myst to Fred for sailing
OK, i made the jump:
Alpha to Lizzy for IW + archery she's got also Priest, but she don't want to trade it and asoka not likes pottery only for priest... stay where you are, religious maniac!
Iron in the ice, Asoka archers + settler are back home (he can't see iron, for now)
JC's flat mine is... guess... IRON!
turn 51
no news, Fred is backwards compared to us, and we passed Toku in score (for now)
JC is under cultural pressure from KK (lost 1 gold to KK) and Izzy, fireworks soon? or see this:
turn 52
buddhist: Izzy, KK, JC, Fred (4)
Hindu: Asoka, Wash, Lizzy, Toku, HC (5)
jews: Alex
no religion: us
Civs to meet: 7
no news, no new techs discovered
turn 53
nothing, but Lizzy and Wash have Mono
IBT Toku asked to stop trading with Fred, i refused, he's annoyed now and has OB with HC
turn 54
nothing, but JC with the GLH - pyramids built by some unknown few turns ago
IBT Alex asked for Poly, i gave him
turn 55
finally marble is hooked
axe in 1 turn, switch to barracks again
- not a damn religion spreaded to us
- we're connected with all the known AIs but KK, and the route with Berlin nets us 2 gpt
- relations? you can become crazy trying to follow everything
- SS? too lazy and not much to add to what you know
WT, as i said i was convinced that KK has nothing interesting and i was right.
Another thing to keep in mind is that every time you trade a tech, its value decreases: e.g. KK would give us wheel + myst for wri, but after i traded to Izzy he gave us only the wheel.
If you add to this that some of them was probably researching it, i thought than the fastest i trade it, the best i can have in change.
ouch! where's your panther?
Anyway, eager to see your comments
graph: dammit, what a jump in power!!!
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, I had:
) tiny Diplo was on 1180, and your SR on 1595.
