SGOTM 07 - Fifth Element

[BLubmuz]

I'm sure i'm missing something, but:

Cottages/keep forests: i'm undecided, if we plan to build the IW we should keep the forests, they can be converted in research when we produce that, and we gain +1health. On the other side, we must wait for the IW to see if we have COAL: no sense to build it for only the 50%. And coal can be in some of our hills, so we must chop one more forest.
So i propose to wait for the cottages.

We must try to gain some cash, so we can upgrade our units, mainly when rifling/chem will arrive. I'm more than a bit concerned by Wash's LB upgraded to rifles or grens.

WT, are you sure we finish SM? this way we'll loose the GLib bonus very soon.
On the other side, i can't see a different path: probably we cannot win the Economics race, but we can research Nationalism/MT on our own to have something to put on the table?
And if we do this, can we win the Physics race?

BTW Sweeta, you're UP!!!

 

[WastinTime]

Let's get 1 turn from SM and see if there are any options.

 

[culdeus]

We can trade happpy resources and stone/marble, but not health. We can fix this by getting Cyrus' fish. Asoka is the #1 target and we still have no trade with him. Liz is going to love us for Free Religion, she's easy.

I'm inclined to include Alex in the war. Ya'll seem to think boats are coming. I'd be very surprised, but I'd rather bring in Alex and not get surprised.

Even if Wash was offering something for Edu, we wouldn't take it for fear of becoming too advanced. Having him at 80% likely to declare war again is either crazy or we're trying to pick a fight. Education is so last millenium. Who cares if he has it too?

@Balth:
BTS reference sheet

I say this because the ~1-500AD AI tactics in test games usually involves pillaging sea resources and landing troops. Whether he's got anything nearby is doubtful.

 

[dutchfire]

Maybe leave Asoka out of it. He can't reach KK.

Wouldn't the diplo bonus be nice?

I think getting more people involved in the war would be better, no?

Can we get our caravel back to home to defend?
If we can get cash for selling techs, we should, that'll give us the opportunity to upgrade.

 

[BLubmuz]

The diplo bonus with Asoka can be nice, but IMO it does not worth an expensive tech like Astro.
I don't know if KK has OB with Alex (just go in F4) and if his galleys are close to our coast, anyway it's better our caravel continues scouting and meeting new rivals.

Sure like hell, i repeat, let's bribe BOTH Alex and JC!

WT, i like the 1 turn thing, we have time to look around.
One more question: if we continue to avoid trade to avoid the WFYABTA, do we risk to lost opportunities?

Just to be safe it's better to switch production to a caravel, then complete the aqueduct.

Roster
Sweetacshon - UP
Balthalion - on deck
greatbeyond
Merum
WastinTime
Blubmuz
Sabre
dutchfire
culdeus - resting

 

[WastinTime]

I wouldn't want a caravel, not too likely we could kill an enemy caravel. What's the strongest we can get? galleon?

I don't think we risk lost opportunities. (Except the opportunity to gift Wash Education before he get's it free from someone else.) I think Nationalism is the last thing we really need ASAP. After that we can trade for any tech that takes us to the end. First Music, then drama, then guilds. (still never HBR, Theo, etc. even if someone wants to give those to us for free, decline!)

 

[Merum]

Now I think it's best to gift Edu to GW, before somebody else gives it to him to war on us. I agree that Astro is too expensive to get Asoka into the war, and that JC should be drafted in. Alex, I'm not sure. Only if we can get something in return. No caravel, Galleon or nothing.

 

[greatbeyond]

Yes, let's hire allies and bribe GW so he doesn't get convinced by KK to dogpile us. Agree with waiting at 1 turn left to SM.

 

[Sweetacshon]

I'm inclined to include Alex in the war. Ya'll seem to think boats are coming. I'd be very surprised, but I'd rather bring in Alex and not get surprised.

Even if Wash was offering something for Edu, we wouldn't take it for fear of becoming too advanced. Having him at 80% likely to declare war again is either crazy or we're trying to pick a fight. Education is so last millenium. Who cares if he has it too?

Now I think it's best to gift Edu to GW, before somebody else gives it to him to war on us. I agree that Astro is too expensive to get Asoka into the war, and that JC should be drafted in. Alex, I'm not sure. Only if we can get something in return. No caravel, Galleon or nothing.

I am in the gift edu camp. It's a small price to pay for a greater chance of peace, imo. We have experienced what it is to be pillaged back to nothing and how that retards us, so I feel we should do all we can to allay that. On top of that, this would be the reason for a defencive navy Imagine how bad the Washo war would've been if we lost the seafood! Merum, what do you mean by the red part above?

BTW Sweeta, you're UP!!!

Oh, ok, I was under the impression there were turns to play. Got it.

Proposal:
Play 'til 1 turn from SM
Gift edu to Washo
Bribe JC - what about Alex??
Gift stone to Asoka
Gain whale and redirect seafood trades
Defend from the forest (initially)
Build 2 galleons (maybe 1 before aqua?)

All that before checking the save for MMing. Please comment. I will play in 24 hrsish, depending on chat.

 

[BLubmuz]

Sweeta, you're forgetting the GS to settle.
Bribe Alex.

About your question to Merum: i guess i thinks a galleon is stronger than a caravel, so it can better defend to galleys.
I agree with this, even if in the mid term a caravel is better 'cause it can upgrade to frigate, once we hook iron.
Better hook iron, so we can build or upgrade a couple of chokonu and also build cannons in future.

I think 1 galleon is enough, but i can be wrong.

 

[dutchfire]

I agree with this, even if in the mid term a caravel is better 'cause it can upgrade to frigate, once we hook iron.

Last time I checked, caravels upgraded to submarines.

 

[Merum]

I mean that if we're going to build navy, it should be galleons. This is because we don't want to waste hammers on a ship that gets offed in its first naval battle. We can maybe build a caravel later, but I'm betting we don't need em. Caravels upgrade to either frigate or sub.

I think maybe KK was bribed... he was at +7 when he attacked us. There's f**kery afoot!

 

[WastinTime]

I think maybe KK was bribed... he was at +7 when he attacked us. There's f**kery afoot!

He's even still Pleased with us now, during the war. Buy he is one of those crazy unpredictable leaders.

 

[MacBalt]

The plan looks good with the additions from BLub (and others). Have fun, Sweetaschon!

@Balth:
BTS reference sheet

So, it is the second to last number in the "Peace Probability" percent that is what matters. At 100% peace probability when "pleased," Washington will ignore any RNG "decision to declare war." I was wondering how to actually apply those numbers in practice. If this is really how it works, then I agree we should do everything we can to get him pleased. Will gifting him tech be enough, given our past conflict?

 

[BLubmuz]

Question: if KK is still pleased when declares war, why do we bother to set GW to pleased?

I can't remember how many declarations i've seen from "pleased" (and often weaker) rivals.
The only safe status is Friendly.

KK can have been bribed (damn verbes: is this right?): someone remember if he acquired new techs or money? Some idea of the possible guilty?

 

[culdeus]

The question of the day is why does Germany suck so much in the Euro Cup?

Well that and who bribed KK to attack us.

I think it's worth getting the bonus from asoka for a bring in at this point. Can't hurt really.

 

[BLubmuz]

1) The question of the day is why does Germany suck so much in the Euro Cup?

2) Well that and who bribed KK to attack us.

3) I think it's worth getting the bonus from asoka for a bring in at this point. Can't hurt really.

1) they try to do what Italy does.

2) ---

3) Astro is a key tech in the way to phisics: as i already said, a bit much for a +1relations and a phony war. Useless to say, if the majority want this...

 

[Merum]

3) Astro is a key tech in the way to phisics: as i already said, a bit much for a +1relations and a phony war. Useless to say, if the majority want this...

I originally wanted to do this and would love the +diplo, but I agree that it's too expensive. Besides, JC might be able to get him in for us, maybe.

 

[WastinTime]

Many AI including KK can declare war when Pleased. I'm sure he did and was not bribed.

Wash cannot declare when Pleased. I've played 100 games with Wash and I've never seen him attack. Of course, he needs to be Pleased for a while like I said before. +4 trade is a good start on the way to Pleased. Hopefully +1 for "years of peace" will put us over the edge. Either way Cautious is far better than Annoyed.

Bring in JC and Alex, no asoka.

 

[MacBalt]

Question: if KK is still pleased when declares war, why do we bother to set GW to pleased?

Kublai Khan's "Peace Probability" percentages are different (10/50/90/100 vs. Washington's 20/70/100/100). According to the guide, because of his diplomacy status Khan will "ignore a decision to go to war" 90% of the time when "pleased." Washington will "ignore a decision to go to war" 100% of the time when "pleased." That is an important difference.

KK can have been bribed (damn verbes: is this right?): someone remember if he acquired new techs or money? Some idea of the possible guilty?

Right on the verbs. Don't know about whether he really was bribed or not. After getting whacked by Ragnar I decided never again to trouble myself about finding motives to explain the random acts of a madman.

@WT: One thing though, I'd swear Ragnar was at "friendly" status with me. His percentages are 0/50/90/100, so he shouldn't have declared, right? I think I still have those "every turn" autosaves somewhere, so maybe I'll go check. Can a leader be bribed to attack even if the leader is at "friendly" status with the target?

EDIT: cross-post with WT