SGOTM 07 - Fifth Element
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
culdeus
Emperor
KK has to come clear across the planet to us. I'd be thinking he'll try to land something for sure. Boats are a near must now.
Merum
Permanent Jet Lag
On the upside, looks like we might have just found our PA partner...
Why is Mr. Maxwell sleeping in Beijing?
Why is Mr. Maxwell sleeping in Beijing?
One huge difference between Wash and Ragnar. When Pleased, Ragnar has a 10% chance of backstabbing you. Wash is 0%. Zero.
Similarly when Cautious: Ragnar 50%, Washington 30% chance of war.
If we leave Wash at annoyed, there is an 80% chance of war.
Now you might say, "hey, I've had a Pleased Washington attack me." That's because he wasn't Pleased when he made the decision to go to war with you. Once he chooses that mission, you can't kiss butt to stop him. After he's pleased for a while, he can't declare war. (I'm not sure how long that is.) About half the leaders are like that.
Merum
Permanent Jet Lag
Bribing Asoka into the war will be expensive for the price of astro, but it seems like a pretty good opportunity. We can bust the GS on Scimeth, and still win the physics race, I'm pretty sure. The +diplo from this war should make us a shoo-in for a PA. (I'm hoping)
EDIT: Alex will go for Philo and PP. JC will go for Edu.
EDIT: Alex will go for Philo and PP. JC will go for Edu.
... so you're saying we are at war again?
Argh, I can't tell you how many times dangling a worker on the border draws them in. I've never tested that, but I'd love to re-load after this is over and see if war can be prevented by putting a longbow on that worker.
Someone here mentioned the danger of this way back. I woulda forgot to cover that worker too. (Of course I woulda been cottaging instead of mining silver
.)Let's throw a LB on top of our other worker before it happens again.
Our Great Scientist is still sitting around (consuming cash). Didnt' we agree to settle him?
Multiple Edits:
Don't take that Astro deal, we can get all his cash too.
Maybe leave Asoka out of it. He can't reach KK.
We should probably move the LB/axes to the deer. Then attack the archers with our axes/cats if they move to the grass. We don't want them in the deer/forest. We can move 3 units without happiness issues.
JC is probably a great choice since he shares borders. He also seems to have 5 units stuck in our territory. That's nice to have.
Alex is a good idea too. That would stop any boats from harrassing us. I doubt we will see many attack boats, but we should have something so we don't lose 5 workboats.
KK has gunpowder. Cyrus will give it to us if we want it. Drama and guilds are everywhere.
Don't take that Astro deal, we can get all his cash too.
Maybe leave Asoka out of it. He can't reach KK.
We should probably move the LB/axes to the deer. Then attack the archers with our axes/cats if they move to the grass. We don't want them in the deer/forest. We can move 3 units without happiness issues.
JC is probably a great choice since he shares borders. He also seems to have 5 units stuck in our territory. That's nice to have.
Alex is a good idea too. That would stop any boats from harrassing us. I doubt we will see many attack boats, but we should have something so we don't lose 5 workboats.
KK has gunpowder. Cyrus will give it to us if we want it. Drama and guilds are everywhere.
Merum
Permanent Jet Lag
We did, but in this case, mightn't it be better to use him for the rest of SciMeth, if we choose to bribe Asoka in?
Merum
Permanent Jet Lag
I was just trying to see quickly what was available. We should absolutely dicker on the price.
I agree that JC is the better choice from both the war and price perspective, but I wonder about the benefits of getting friendly with Asoka, and securing the coveted PA. JC is backwards and may not be a good choice for a PA. He would cut through KK like a hot knife through butter, though.
Re-edit: What about getting JC into the war (instant defenders), then bribing Asoka in too for the diplo?
Eek, you gave away our fish (2 food) for whale (happy) ?
Hook up our whale next turn and see if you can trade it for Cyrus' fish.
I vote (again) for getting off the stone and either coast or scientist now that the NatEpic is done. We still get Aqueduct in 2 and we have little else to build.
Hook up our whale next turn and see if you can trade it for Cyrus' fish.
I vote (again) for getting off the stone and either coast or scientist now that the NatEpic is done. We still get Aqueduct in 2 and we have little else to build.
I'm thinking we get maybe +1 or +2 shared struggle and that fades over time, so maybe no effect to diplo. Also, turns in shared war don't add to turns in DP, so we still need 40 turns of DP. I doubt the KK war will go for 40 turns.
In other words, let's not give away Astro for Asoka's help. Especially since there are two other good/cheaper choices. And let's settle that GS.
Merum
Permanent Jet Lag
You're right. Let's get JC in there to do some ass-kicking for us.
Sweetacshon
In the foetal position
Another war by an AI that sees an opportunity *sigh*. It's easy with hindsight, but it was easily avoidable with a lb, as has been brought up previously. Oh well. Absolutely send in the JC dog. It shouldn't be hard to get peace soon. I'm still pushing for 2 boats in our borders to save our seafood.
I may have missed it, but where are we getting Nat and MT from? What does Asoka need to be at to be in a DP or PA? Or Liz? Perhaps th MMS bonus will get us over the line with these 2, who don't really like us that much. Liz has 2 far better friends in Washo and HC, but Asoka has noone at friendly.
Settle the GS, certainly.
I may have missed it, but where are we getting Nat and MT from? What does Asoka need to be at to be in a DP or PA? Or Liz? Perhaps th MMS bonus will get us over the line with these 2, who don't really like us that much. Liz has 2 far better friends in Washo and HC, but Asoka has noone at friendly.
Settle the GS, certainly.
Liz and Asoka should sign DP at +8. By giving tech (+4), +2 OB, +1 peace. That's 7 and we only need 1 more. Liz will be +3 shared civic. Asoka is already +1 since we helped him. So we should be fine for getting DPs. It's nice to get and extra +1 for resource trade just in case you get a -1 for something like refuse to cancel deals.
MacBalt
Learnéd Fool
Wow... three days of molasses and now another post-fest. I blinked and practically missed it. 
This DOW looks like it could work to our benefit though.
I'm on board with getting JC in the fight. Let's leave Alex out though unless we're sure he won't alienate our PA targets. It is a shame to pass up the mutual military struggle plusses with Asoka, but his price IS a bit too high... especially if we still intend to try to research both Military Tradition and Banking/Economics ourselves.
EDIT: yes, move those units out to protect the deer and (especially) the cottages. We don't want to have to waste more turns rebuilding again. Lets find a way to upgrade some more units if we can too.
EDIT #2: I agree with culdeus about the boats -- lets build a galleon, pronto. If Alex isn't bribed in to stop Khan then the odds are we will have something ugly floating up our coast pretty soon.
This DOW looks like it could work to our benefit though.I'm on board with getting JC in the fight. Let's leave Alex out though unless we're sure he won't alienate our PA targets. It is a shame to pass up the mutual military struggle plusses with Asoka, but his price IS a bit too high... especially if we still intend to try to research both Military Tradition and Banking/Economics ourselves.
EDIT: yes, move those units out to protect the deer and (especially) the cottages. We don't want to have to waste more turns rebuilding again. Lets find a way to upgrade some more units if we can too.
EDIT #2: I agree with culdeus about the boats -- lets build a galleon, pronto. If Alex isn't bribed in to stop Khan then the odds are we will have something ugly floating up our coast pretty soon.
MacBalt
Learnéd Fool
This is great stuff -- Thanks! Where can I find out about these kinds of differences between AI leaders? Is there an article or something, or do I have to start poking through programming code?
MacBalt
Learnéd Fool
Arg, one last thing -- shouldn't we gift that stone to Asoka? Maybe we'll want it to build a wall if things get dicy with Kublai, but I doubt it.
Okay, two last things: What are the chances of George being bribed into our little disagreement with KK? Kublai does have gunpowder, but I don't know whether he'd give it away to George or not.
Okay, two last things: What are the chances of George being bribed into our little disagreement with KK? Kublai does have gunpowder, but I don't know whether he'd give it away to George or not.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
damn almost 2 pages in 1 night and 1 was BEFORE the war!
GW: in most of my recent games for the EQM, since i wait to build a decent army to focus on early wonders and expansion, GW DoWed me, and he was pleased
useless to say i was on Noble, and he payd for his arrogance 
GS: we already discussed LB is not worth on Deity after Edu, and we decided to use him as a specialist - can't see why we didn't
Asoka: he can be a good PA partner, but Astro is too much for a phony war.
JC and Alex: let's bribe them, mainly JC has a direct interest to actually try to wipe KK.
I usually fotget it too, but never more an unprotected worker.
I agree with Merum (or he with me, not clear
) f*ck Wash, if he offers something we can trade Edu, otherwise he can try to buy it elsewhere.
More will follow, i must read carefully all your stuff.
Damn we're worst than Murky!
GW: in most of my recent games for the EQM, since i wait to build a decent army to focus on early wonders and expansion, GW DoWed me, and he was pleased
useless to say i was on Noble, and he payd for his arrogance GS: we already discussed LB is not worth on Deity after Edu, and we decided to use him as a specialist - can't see why we didn't
Asoka: he can be a good PA partner, but Astro is too much for a phony war.
JC and Alex: let's bribe them, mainly JC has a direct interest to actually try to wipe KK.
I usually fotget it too, but never more an unprotected worker.
I agree with Merum (or he with me, not clear
) f*ck Wash, if he offers something we can trade Edu, otherwise he can try to buy it elsewhere.More will follow, i must read carefully all your stuff.
Damn we're worst than Murky!
culdeus
Emperor
It was that or metal.
We're one turn away from getting the whale back with the boat for trading and the duct will be in. It's heading that way though double check it before hitting enter. I was under the impression diplo relations are a big priority right now. Resource trades are an easy bonus to get.
Also there might be some long distance moves programmed (caravel for sure) in as I anticipated 2+ turns to go.
We can trade happpy resources and stone/marble, but not health. We can fix this by getting Cyrus' fish. Asoka is the #1 target and we still have no trade with him. Liz is going to love us for Free Religion, she's easy.
I'm inclined to include Alex in the war. Ya'll seem to think boats are coming. I'd be very surprised, but I'd rather bring in Alex and not get surprised.
Even if Wash was offering something for Edu, we wouldn't take it for fear of becoming too advanced. Having him at 80% likely to declare war again is either crazy or we're trying to pick a fight. Education is so last millenium. Who cares if he has it too?
@Balth:
BTS reference sheet
I'm inclined to include Alex in the war. Ya'll seem to think boats are coming. I'd be very surprised, but I'd rather bring in Alex and not get surprised.
Even if Wash was offering something for Edu, we wouldn't take it for fear of becoming too advanced. Having him at 80% likely to declare war again is either crazy or we're trying to pick a fight. Education is so last millenium. Who cares if he has it too?
@Balth:
BTS reference sheet
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