@WT: Won't the AIs all zip right through Economics once they've got Banking -- especially if we are generous with giving them Education?
EDIT: Cross-post with BLubmuz. I really don't like the thought of delaying the Physics race. Laurels come for speed, not for strategic cleanliness or for touching every base. If we really want to take these detours then we should at least take some time to test and make sure they will pay for themselves in terms of turns recouped later.
Advantages
-Faster
-Carry more and all things
-Does not "obsolete"
Disadvantages
-More expensive
-Needs OB to move through some lands
Thoughts
-With a galleon we can certainly find someone to give us a map and then move about making contact in an efficient (and faster) way through selective OB if needed.
-A caravel provides little in the way of a stop for pillaging sea resources later in the game.
If we want to make every hammer count then maybe the galleon is the move here. I forgot about the OB thing too, but thinking about it some more maybe it's not that big a deal at this stage.
Balth, most AIs will go to Nationalism.
Not sure of this detour, it was a question and a thing we can consider: a GM can be as good as a GS to settle.
Surely i don't like to loose the advantages of the GLib so soon.
We must trade for Feud (Alex?) and see who's got guilds.
Engineering is a prerequisite for Chem.
If we wanna both quickly probably we must trade for them in the same turn.
Time to take this decisions, before next TS.
One thing is sure: the physics race is a park walk without detours, but we renounce to the GLib advantages too soon.
We must evaluate the chances to win that race with some detour before SM.
Out of topic
Hey guys if you got a minute, take a look here:
is still under contruction, it's in italian, but i'd like to see some opinions about the graphics.
The site has very cool graphics, BLub! Makes me wish I could read the Italian. My three years of high school Latin just aren't good enough. Very impressive work! It is your creation, I guess?
Back to the game: I don't think it helps us much to worry about losing the Great Library. Our main concern from this point forward should be speed, IMHO. We'll pick up all those other techs without much effort anyway simply by trading. Gold is not going to be a concern either, as I expect we'll be trading stuff with less developed civs for piles of gold from here on out too. The only diversion that makes sense to me is the one for Military Tradition, because the benefits of a faster Permanent Alliance make those of the Great Library look pitiful by comparison. I'm also not convinced that trading for Engineering is our best move right now if it pushes us back up toward WFYABTA. I'd rather just get Feudalism and then hold off to make sure we get Nationalism from someone as quickly as possible. Helping the AI to get to Nationalism faster might be the best reason to pass Education around right away too (which should also net us some fine amounts of cash).
Since my Space skills have been all warmed up by this SG, I've been knocking of a few Deity HOF squares. In my 4 games, I was able to win the Econ race after trading for Banking most of the time. I lost it the last game by like 12 beakers. I probably could've micromanaged better and won the race. That was on a small map, so the AI was much stronger than we're seeing. If we can get banking quickly after it's first discovered, I think it's worth a shot.
Okay, I trust your experience -- but is that another good reason to hold off on getting Engineering now, if we're going to need to be able to get Nationalism, Guilds, & Banking ASAP while avoiding WFYABTA?
He must be back in Texas now, then? How's that jet-lag thing going for him? I'm guessing Japanese Scotch was the whiskey in question? Hey Merum, where did you go to kindergarten -- what about bringing enough for everyone to share???
Turn 1: Liberalism in, Astronomy as the free tech
damn, did we decide anything on civics?
Fish boated
Traded Paper + Lit + Compass for Feudalism + gold with Alexander
Revolt to Free Religion + Serfdom
Turn 2:
Asoka adopts Free Religion. That was close
Road marble, road cottage (to hook up sheep), fishing boats on fish
Turn 3: Caravel -> Observatory
Turn 4: Paper to Julius for 120 gold, to Frederick for 100 gold
workers to forest 2W of Beijing, archers move back into the city
Turn 5: Workers start cottaging
Turn 7: Chop completes, Meet Cyrus + Louis
Turn 8: GS born
Spoiler:
Turn 121, 150 AD: SGOTM07 is the first to discover Liberalism!
Turn 121, 150 AD: You have discovered Liberalism!
Turn 122, 175 AD: You have discovered Astronomy!
Turn 122, 175 AD: You have discovered Feudalism!
Turn 122, 175 AD: The revolution has begun!!!
Turn 122, 175 AD: SGOTM07 adopts Serfdom!
Turn 122, 175 AD: SGOTM07 adopts Free Religion!
Turn 122, 175 AD: The anarchy is over! Your government is re-established.
Turn 122, 175 AD: Asoka adopts Free Religion!
Turn 122, 175 AD: The Kong Miao has been built in a far away land!
Turn 123, 200 AD: Michael Faraday has been born in a far away land!
Turn 123, 200 AD: The Hagia Sophia has been built in a far away land!
Turn 124, 225 AD: Julius Caesar adopts Bureaucracy!
Turn 125, 250 AD: Leif Erickson has been born in Delhi!
Turn 126, 275 AD: Archimedes has been born in Berlin!
Turn 126, 275 AD: Chuang-Tzu has been born in Rome!
Turn 126, 275 AD: Mencius has been born in a far away land!
Turn 127, 300 AD: Julius Caesar's Golden Age has begun!!!
Turn 127, 300 AD: Your land area: 23 (4.15%) is close to the Domination Limit: 282 (51.00%).
Turn 128, 325 AD: New Tech(s) to trade: Kublai Khan
Turn 128, 325 AD: Clearing a Forest has created 52 ? for Beijing.
Turn 128, 325 AD: Beijing has grown to size 13
Turn 128, 325 AD: James Clerk Maxwell has been born in Beijing!
Turn 128, 325 AD: Frederick has completed Notre Dame!
Turn 128, 325 AD: The Church of the Nativity has been built in a far away land!
Turn 128, 325 AD: Your land area: 23 (4.15%) is close to the Domination Limit: 282 (51.00%).
Turn 129, 350 AD: New Tech(s) to trade: Julius Caesar, Cyrus, Louis XIV, Isabella
Turn 129, 350 AD: Can Trade Open Borders with: Cyrus, Louis XIV
Turn 129, 350 AD: Elizabeth has 240 gold available for trade
I hope I played the correct number of turns, accoriding to the autolog, I played 9, but the last one hasn't been finished, and the first one is the inherited turn, right?
Since our workers are working faster (serf), I'm not sure it makes sense to have them both work the same square. It doubles the movement cost which is a lot on normal. However, if you moved them together to get the chop faster, then I understand your reasoning. Since we aren't pre-chopping, you could've moved them to 2 separate forests and just chop then we'd have both forests in by now. But I didn't check if we save a turn doing a chop/cottage combo now that Serfdom is on. Anyway, not a big deal.
What is a big deal is that we still don't have active trades w/Liz and especially Asoka. We should trade liberalism to liz soon so she'll go Free Rel. Asoka may not start loving us until Universal Sufferage, so we need that resource trade now. I think it takes 40 turns to get +1 (and it could go +2 if we started 40 turns ago) which means our PA could be delayed until turn 209 (DP on turn 169). We luckily have a "+1 You gave us help", so that might make up for it.
Looks good dutchfire. Unbelievably close on Liberalism with Asoka. What's up with him this game, anyway? Is getting to economics first really going to be doable?
Cyrus will trade Drama and Engineering for Liberalism +200 gold. Don't know if that's worth it because of WFYABTA and because Washington is annoyed with us again. (I'd feel more comfortable if we promoted one of our archers to LB soon.)
Resource trades are more difficult. The only trade combination that looks possible might be gifting the stone to Asoka and the copper to Liz. I'm reluctant to gift our only metal though -- especially with Washington back to annoyed. If we decide to go that route, what about waiting on that trade until we can get the iron on line (or almost on line)?
1 more cottage. I think we have an odd # of forests, so it won't cost us health.
The other worker can go to the iron or maybe silver is better depending on how long we think we can keep it.
Edit: I looked at the save, new advice:
2 more cottages.
Silver: It looks like a 3 way fight for that square, so we should retain ownership even if we drop to 45% or even 40%, right? That can be Liz's gift.
Give Wash Edu. That should cheer him us once and for all.
He must be back in Texas now, then? How's that jet-lag thing going for him? I'm guessing Japanese Scotch was the whiskey in question? Hey Merum, where did you go to kindergarten -- what about bringing enough for everyone to share???
Hey, Tucson isn't that far off the path between Texas and Japan. Besides, I've been known to crawl a long way for good liquor... (or was that after good liquor...)?
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Very impressive work! It is your creation, I guess?
