SGOTM 07 - Unusual Suspects

The Best Tech Path So Far (c) hunting => masonry => wheel => fishing => pottery => writting => alphabet => ***trade loads of tech here including myst => poly => literature.

note We are not playing this position yet, we need more calculations.
 
Hmm.

You see, I thought I'd done that.

I might need some idiot proof help however :P

Have you managed to start it? Try assets checker to see what is wrong if you haven't : AssetsChecker
Maybe you haven't put the dll's in the right folder, they have to go to c:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\.... NOT in My Documents\ folders.

@Strategy dispute

I like my plan best :D, I'll do the testing with the old test map right now! :p

Ok, I have just opened the save.

Here are some ideas:

1) Barracks were in the queue before we started with The Pyramids. They will be built in 2 turns, it is logical to finish them. Regarding power, we also have to remember that population also counts!

The Inner Workings of the Demographics Screen Explained by Robi D

Spoiler :

Factor 1- Population points. For every two population points from all your cities you get 1000 soldiers. So;
1pop = 0 soldiers
2pop= 1000
3pop= 1000
4pop= 2000
5pop= 2000
6pop= 3000 and so on.


Not so much, but still.


2) Let's start with workboat while stagnant next. When fish gets harvested, switch from stone to fish, while building a granary.
I haven't tested this with the old test game, but it seems to me this is best.

3) Just before the population increases, let's revolt to representation. It is better to revolt earlier when we are producing less than later when we'll be producing more. We don't get slavery here, but we can get it later after we get GL if we have to.

4) I suggest we play for ~10 turns each at this point, there is a lot of micro management to do.
 
I regret to say that, following a check on the first submitted save, I am removing acidsatyr from this team.
 
Since you are a member of this team anyway maybe you could grant us with your calculations instead of only questions?

AcidSatyr, I am basically here on the condition that I should not tell the team what to do, and only offer advice in general terms. This is because were I to become a 'full member', the gap in experience and skill would be so big (I am arrogant enough to say it out loud) that the result would not be indicative of the team's performance as a whole.

So I let the team make mistakes, and point them out afterwards. Very often in SGOTMs, the freshly-formed teams believe they are doing very well, then suddenly find themselves falling sharply behind. By then, their memory of the very first moves is somewhat dim, unfortunately so, because those little sub-optimal decisions make only a slight difference early on, making it difficult to pin-point them. Only eventually do the small advantages accumulate into an exponential burst of growth for the top teams.

My job is to offer feedback while the memory of the events is still fresh. Since the first turnset is finished, I can now say that if I were playing it myself, I'd choose a slightly different route that, benchmarked at 2400BC, delays the Pyramids by 2 turns, puts you ahead 15f on food, behind 30h on hammers, and ahead 40b on beakers. In addition, it is 6 turns faster to Writing, and subsequently the library and academy, and Alphabet. 15 food is equal to 45 hammers under Slavery, so in fact it is ahead on hammers too, especially given that Slavery will be available 6 turns earlier. The net gain is +15h +40b+more beakers for earlier Academy. Also, fewer AIs may know Writing by the time you reach Alphabet, allowing for more trading options. 6 turns is a big deal here.

The route includes bypassing Fishing, working the fur camp instead of the marble quarry, and going through Animal Husbandry instead of Pottery.

But our chosen route is okay as well. These are pretty advanced topics, and some of our newer teammates may not be accustomed to such depth of analysis. I think it is a good learning opportunity. AcidSatyr - you have the most skill of our playing members, perhaps twice as much as the rest. I would imagine that you, as the captain, are trying to be a model player for the rest of the team. You probably want to ensure that the discussion of strategy stays lively but focused. Writing a pre-turnset plan is a good way to ensure that everybody knows the immediate goals, and the solutions that have been proposed. It has a long tradition as a good SGOTM practice. The player who is actually going to play next is naturally more aware when he is wading through the complex discussion to come up with concrete proposals. It is natural that he should summarize in his pre-turnset plan in clear, concise form. That's why I am asking all those questions - to make sure everyone understands why we made the decisions that we made, and what remains to be done.
 
vra379971, have you sorted out the problems re. opening the save?

Does anyone else have technical problems? Better speak up early.
 
No, I haven't actually. I figure I might need to do a reinstall mabye. While I can play Civ...I really wish these things came with an installer. Balbes, if you have MSN/IM programs, perhaps you could help me sort out my trouble in the days ahead.

That said, for the time being I don't need to open it to be interim Captain at the very least.

There is also the matter of do we have to now replay our opening...?
 
No, the game stays as is. Replaying it in a different way would give us additional information about the game world - an unfair advantage.

While I do not know much about the technical issues of saves refusing to load etc., I am pretty sure all the necessary troubleshooting instructions can be found at these forums. It was a widespread problem a year back.
 
No, I haven't actually. I figure I might need to do a reinstall mabye. While I can play Civ...I really wish these things came with an installer. Balbes, if you have MSN/IM programs, perhaps you could help me sort out my trouble in the days ahead.

That said, for the time being I don't need to open it to be interim Captain at the very least.

There is also the matter of do we have to now replay our opening...?

You don't have to replay your opening.

Here is a check list of reasons why you might get a Locked Assets error when trying to open a xOTM file, with a suggested action to take if all else fails.
 
I regret to say that, following a check on the first submitted save, I am removing acidsatyr from this team.

AlanH, can you please tell why?
What happened there acidsatyr?

@Balbes
How do you exactly calculate all that?
Care to give some tips? Do you have some spreadsheets or what?

I think we should all take a deep breath here...
 
There has been a set of unfortunate events which were out of my hand and which will not allow me to continue this game. I wish you all good luck I'm sure this team can get far.
 
AcidSatyr, I am basically here on the condition that I should not tell the team what to do, and only offer advice in general terms. This is because were I to become a 'full member', the gap in experience and skill would be so big (I am arrogant enough to say it out loud) that the result would not be indicative of the team's performance as a whole.

So I let the team make mistakes, and point them out afterwards. Very often in SGOTMs, the freshly-formed teams believe they are doing very well, then suddenly find themselves falling sharply behind. By then, their memory of the very first moves is somewhat dim, unfortunately so, because those little sub-optimal decisions make only a slight difference early on, making it difficult to pin-point them. Only eventually do the small advantages accumulate into an exponential burst of growth for the top teams.

My job is to offer feedback while the memory of the events is still fresh. Since the first turnset is finished, I can now say that if I were playing it myself, I'd choose a slightly different route that, benchmarked at 2400BC, delays the Pyramids by 2 turns, puts you ahead 15f on food, behind 30h on hammers, and ahead 40b on beakers. In addition, it is 6 turns faster to Writing, and subsequently the library and academy, and Alphabet. 15 food is equal to 45 hammers under Slavery, so in fact it is ahead on hammers too, especially given that Slavery will be available 6 turns earlier. The net gain is +15h +40b+more beakers for earlier Academy. Also, fewer AIs may know Writing by the time you reach Alphabet, allowing for more trading options. 6 turns is a big deal here.

The route includes bypassing Fishing, working the fur camp instead of the marble quarry, and going through Animal Husbandry instead of Pottery.

But our chosen route is okay as well. These are pretty advanced topics, and some of our newer teammates may not be accustomed to such depth of analysis. I think it is a good learning opportunity. AcidSatyr - you have the most skill of our playing members, perhaps twice as much as the rest. I would imagine that you, as the captain, are trying to be a model player for the rest of the team. You probably want to ensure that the discussion of strategy stays lively but focused. Writing a pre-turnset plan is a good way to ensure that everybody knows the immediate goals, and the solutions that have been proposed. It has a long tradition as a good SGOTM practice. The player who is actually going to play next is naturally more aware when he is wading through the complex discussion to come up with concrete proposals. It is natural that he should summarize in his pre-turnset plan in clear, concise form. That's why I am asking all those questions - to make sure everyone understands why we made the decisions that we made, and what remains to be done.

As I'm sure you are aware by now, I am not allowed to continue playing this game in official manner. It is very unfortunate since I was already putting a lot of effort in it. If it means anything to you personally, it has nothing to do with me cheating, rather, it’s an issue which I won’t discuss here and is not the point of this message.
Instead, I would like to discuss your set of moves.
I am a deity player in my personal games, meaning, I regularly beat Immortal and have solid chances in deity level. Yes I am arrogant enough to say that. I would like to discuss your path which differed from mine in this game.
Would you care to explain exactly the path you had chosen? While your strategy does seem to offer early advantage, by skipping pottery you are in fact loosing in the long run. My latest calculations show that building granary as ealry as possible will eventually net greater overall output, seemingly putting pottery much more important than AH is.
But before I continue.. if are not interested in this conversation, please freely say so. If you are, contact me by PM.
 
Oi, sorry to hear that.

Here's what I'm proposing from here on out.

If Balbes concents, I'm nominnating him to be our new erm, Lord Regent if he'd prefer that title to Captain. This is strictly in an administrative capacity, which then allows us to focus on the game.

We CAN win this gentlemen, we just need to take our time and THINK EVERYTHING THROUGH just like before. What I'm going to suggest is we come up with a few comepeting plans before every set, and then if Balbes would concent to give us his opinion, then fine.

That said, I think we are ready to move ahead, and would suggest the next player see if he can scout on his way to Alphabet. We really can't make any further plans till we see what's on offer.
 
There has been a set of unfortunate events which were out of my hand and which will not allow me to continue this game. I wish you all good luck I'm sure this team can get far.

It has been a pleasure having you on the team! Unfortunate that things finished this way!

@Vra

Managed to set things right?

@Testing

I've played that last test game I posted and reproduced Acid's moves he played in the real game. I then went for the GL the way which seemed good to me. I've built it twice in 975BC. I've chopped one forest because I wanted to mine the hill anyway and settled the GE in the city when Literacy was discovered. I actually delayed the GL for a turn or two to get more research.

@Calculations
What are you doing, writing everything down every turn? Seems very tedious.
 
If Balbes concents, I'm nominnating him to be our new erm, Lord Regent if he'd prefer that title to Captain.
Impossible :) The next SG will probably be a BtS SG so I'll be with CFR again; I am here now to train you as a captain who will lead his team in the future games.

And, you are right. The captain's job ain't loads of fun. When volunteering for captain, make sure you know what you're getting yourself into. :) Incidentally, may I ask you what are the responsibilities of the captain?
 
How do you exactly calculate all that?
Care to give some tips? Do you have some spreadsheets or what?
It is simple, really. You add up the hammer costs of everything you have produced across the empire; the beaker costs of all the techs you have researched; and the food costs of all the population you have grown. Don't forget also to add those invested in the projects currently under construction.

You can do this looking at a single saved game, there is no need to record everything you do each turn.

Of course this only measures the performance of your micromanagement, not your strategy. (Having Iron Working is not the same as having Alphabet even though the total number of researched beakers may be the same!) Also AcidSatyr raised a very valid point that long-term performance is not necessarily indicated by this short-term performance. Often, taking your time to lay a solid foundation pays off later. But that belongs to strategy, and cannot be measured by this method. Its primary use is in comparing test runs that differ only slightly from each other (like, should I research Fishing then Hunting or the other way round?)
 
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