SGOTM 07 - Unusual Suspects

[Yamps]

Nope, still not sorted, not that I've had the time lately.

It amazes me, with all the talent on this form, they can't put this mod in a simple shell program installer.

The mod is there, and because I don't have BtS I downloaded the .dll zip. This combination HAS worked for GOTM saves before on my other computer, I'll test a regular GOTM save now.

Update: even the regular GOTM save won't load... which is crazy, because the same combination HAS worked on another computer. Seriously annoying.

This is really strange and bad indeed. Have you tried the assets checker

Assets checker_v2.0.2.zip from this page?
Civ4 Assets Checker

What does it say? Also try contacting HoF support hof.civfanatics@gmail.com

Try loading the HoF mod first. (Start Civ 4, go advanced and load mod) Can you do that?

EDIT: look at the New HOF Mod Releases! page too, maybe it helps.

 

[Yamps]

From the maintenance thread:

I can't load the save either. "The save file you have selected is protected to ensure that the assets in your mod folder have not been changed." Others in the team can load the save, so it must be something to do with my setup.

I have BtS patch 3.13 installed. I have no problems loading other HoF 1.74.02 games (just submitted one two days ago), I've never changed custom assets. Any ideas?

EDIT: Solved the issue by downloading the DLL from here

as I know, kaizer has the same problem: he can load gotm but cannot load sgotm.

Ozbenno! Thanx! Kaizer have solved that problem by the same way as you did
it seems, that there is no sense... simply magic.

Well, try to download the dll again, maybe it will work for you too.

 

[marconos]

I'm really looking forward to playing some turns!!!!!

 

[shikhee]

yes! Marconos should play while error issues are worked out!

(plans sound great... lately in my other games i've been playing much better, mostly using our early game strategy but tend to start loosing direction and focus about this part of the game... so i don't have much to offer on strategy, and while i'm starting to understand some of the diplomacy, the fact this game has so MUCH of it is a bit daunting!)

 

[marconos]

If you want me to play I can ... would need some time to review and post my plan. Could have something up late tomorrow night .. able to play turns Saturday night.

 

[vra379971]

Sounds like a plan!

 

[marconos]

I have the save, I'll do my review and get my thoughts posted by midnight tonight (EST). Have work and other things going on. I will plan on doing my moves Saturday night pending a solid review of my plans. I'm not going to review any new posts in this thread till after I have put together my plan of action. That way I can get a better idea of what I missed when you guys tear it apart

 

[marconos]

Step 1: Issue. I had some dirt on my keyboard. Wiped it off and it ended the turn. It popped up someone asking/demanding something so I left it and went it did some other stuff that I need to do tonight. Came back and had to reboot the system. I had made no moves or anything just had hit the end turn I guess. Thought I would mention that. Again hadn't done anything and didn't pay attention to who was up on the screen as I was ticked at my stupidity. Now on to my thoughts.

Religion Spread
Missionary to Rome - 4 turns
Missionary to Antium - 5 turns
Going to take them off of automated movement and move them by hand each turn. I hate automated moves, I forget too much.
Agree we need to convert Washington to Jewsih religion. We are only +2 with him and we are going to be razing a city of his soon by culture pressure. I want as many positive points as we can get. Same thing with Elizabeth, cutlure pressure is going to raze Nottingham soon. She is already Jewish so nothing to do there.

Production
Finish Jewish missionary and send this one to Washington. I don't care about NY as it's going to die anyway.
After missionary complete the Aqueduct. Healthy is going to become an issue for us (Cow will help as well here).

Research
Finish paper (2 turns) then on to education followed by Liberalism. At current rate 20 turns to education(18 + 2) and 34 turns to liberalism(14+18+2).

Trading/Diplomacy
This is really where this game is at currently IMO.
Wants: Feudalism(Longbows), Compass(Harbor for +3 commerce +3 healthy)
Relationship Status: We appear to be in the middle road area. Most of the AI's have better and worse relations with everyone else then us, should we have been the Swiss in this? In any case we have to get something to bump our relationships up.

Potential Trading Partners

• 
  Washington: Fuedalism -- won't trade it to us
  Asoka: Compass -- wants Civil Service for it, Fuedalism + Compass -- wants Philosophy and Civil Service for both.
  Elizabeth: Fuedalism -- won't trade it to us
  Kublai Khan: Compass -- Civil Service for it
  Huayna Capac: Fuedalism, Compass -- Same deals here as with Asoka
  Julius Ceasar: Compass, Fuedalism -- Same deals here as with Asoka

Not really sure what to do here for trades. Everyone is offering the same things and nothing really any good. I would think trading Civil Service after we have researched paper to be our best approach. We need to get a harbor built as it will have a very nice impact on our captiol with healthy and commerce. Civil Service for Compass is a bad move IMO. I think we should go with one of the double or nothing deals. I believe our best bet is to trade these items with Huayan Capac. My thoughts here is it allows us to have something to gift Ceasar to get him to switch to Judasim and Huayan is friendly with Ceasar. There is a war brewing between the Jewish and the buddist faiths. I believe it will be starting in around 10 turns. Relations are just getting that bad and there is no where for the computer to expand.

If I had my preference I would like to go to war with Washington. He does not have and can only make Axeman. We can handle those easily with Longbows in woods and hills. I'm not saying we pick a fight but he would be one where I don't care about his happiness with us.


Action Items
Worker -- Connect up Cows (5 turns pasture 2 turns road), then connect up iron to trade for gold or a healthy
Trade -- After paper trade Civil Service + Philosophy to Capac for Fuedalism + Compass, upgrade all archers to longbows (ya both of em ).
Production -- Complete Missionary, build Aqueduct then build harbor. If a missionary fails to spread on Ceasar make another one. The one currently in production will move 2 turns towards Rome after he is produced in case the one we sent there fails. The one headed to Antioch will go to Rome 1st as well if the first one fails to spread. I don't care about spreading to Washington.
Research -- Paper then Education

At this point that is all I have.

Edit: I plan on playing these turns around 9:00 pm(EST) Saturday night. My thought is to play through obtaining Education.

 

[Ankka]

I approve the plan.

BUT, since I'm apparently unable to even load the save, I guess I'll have to resign. Not too fond about the idea.

 

[Yamps]

Step 1: Issue. I had some dirt on my keyboard. Wiped it off and it ended the turn. It popped up someone asking/demanding something so I left it and went it did some other stuff that I need to do tonight. Came back and had to reboot the system. I had made no moves or anything just had hit the end turn I guess. Thought I would mention that. Again hadn't done anything and didn't pay attention to who was up on the screen as I was ticked at my stupidity. Now on to my thoughts.

Please be more careful next time. AlanH should be notified *cough* again *cough* , just to be safe. Well, hitting end turn was best move anyway, but that's my opinion. We don't have the option now, you have to start your turn set with ending the turn.

Religion Spread
Missionary to Rome - 4 turns
Missionary to Antium - 5 turns
Going to take them off of automated movement and move them by hand each turn. I hate automated moves, I forget too much.
Agree we need to convert Washington to Jewsih religion. We are only +2 with him and we are going to be razing a city of his soon by culture pressure. I want as many positive points as we can get. Same thing with Elizabeth, cutlure pressure is going to raze Nottingham soon. She is already Jewish so nothing to do there.

Production
Finish Jewish missionary and send this one to Washington. I don't care about NY as it's going to die anyway.
After missionary complete the Aqueduct. Healthy is going to become an issue for us (Cow will help as well here).

Get them out of auto, by all means. I did that for your convenience, so that you know what were my intentions. Although I did put the signs, too.

New York will probably get razed by our culture, but that won't happen soon. The tile is at 67% now, but it has a strong garrison. Stronger garrison reduces the revolting chance, if the garrison is too strong, a flip will never happen. We don't want to take chances, we should built the missionary.

MM things to get things done in time, we can build the 4-th missionary and aqueduct before the health cap.

Research
Finish paper (2 turns) then on to education followed by Liberalism. At current rate 20 turns to education(18 + 2) and 34 turns to liberalism(14+18+2).

After the missionaries and Aqueduct, hire more scientists to get the techs sooner.

Trading/Diplomacy

Not really sure what to do here for trades. Everyone is offering the same things and nothing really any good. I would think trading Civil Service after we have researched paper to be our best approach. We need to get a harbor built as it will have a very nice impact on our captiol with healthy and commerce. Civil Service for Compass is a bad move IMO. I think we should go with one of the double or nothing deals. I believe our best bet is to trade these items with Huayan Capac. My thoughts here is it allows us to have something to gift Ceasar to get him to switch to Judasim and Huayan is friendly with Ceasar.

We should trade as late as possible to win the Liberalism race. We don't need the harbor just yet, we are at the 11/11 health cap now, but we'll get +3 health with Cow and Aqueduct.

I posted the trading analysis before that showed that Liz and Washington won't start trading CS and Philosophy just yet. Do you agree with that? Here are the recommendations:

• Watch the glance table closely every turn.
• If Washington gets friendly (green color) with somebody besides Izzy, that's a warning sign.
• If Liz starts liking somebody too much, that's a warning sign. Too much is +15 attitude. You can't see the real number, you must estimate. Her best is +6 and +8, the real number is under 15 because she hasn't been trading Philosophy and Music so far. Note that Asoka has Music too, they both say that they don't want to trade it yet.
• Report if any other AI gets CS or Philosophy.

There is a war brewing between the Jewish and the buddist faiths. I believe it will be starting in around 10 turns. Relations are just getting that bad and there is no where for the computer to expand.

It is hard to tell for sure. Please check for the "We have enough on our hands" regularly. That's a sign of war.

If I had my preference I would like to go to war with Washington. He does not have and can only make Axeman. We can handle those easily with Longbows in woods and hills. I'm not saying we pick a fight but he would be one where I don't care about his happiness with us.

Maybe we will go to an expeditionary war. The only reason for that is a mutual war bonus with our PA target. For example, if JC attacks somebody, we should consider joining the war. However, I strongly disagree with your choice. Washington would be best as a protective Jewish buffer zone. It would be much better to fight a war far from home. We wouldn't have to take out anybody for real probably, let our PA candidate do that.

Action Items
Worker -- Connect up Cows (5 turns pasture 2 turns road), then connect up iron to trade for gold or a healthy

Connecting the iron after the Cow sounds good. I will remind you that we don't need the happy resources at all anymore, except the ones that can bring health too. However, the AI doesn't have anything to trade. No health resources and almost no gold. Gifting resources is also an option. That can bring positive points an negative points, we have to be very careful.

Trade -- After paper trade Civil Service + Philosophy to Capac for Fuedalism + Compass, upgrade all archers to longbows (ya both of em ).

Paper is due in 2 turns, that's too soon. That would jeopardize the Liberalism race too much. Trading both things to HC is bad by itself, IMO. Remember that we can research Feudalism a bit on our own to lower the price when the time comes. We could build some cats instead for defense, GA is bringing extra cash.

I don't care about spreading to Washington.

You should really care. He is only at +2 with us. When we convert to Judaism + Pacifism (remember Pacifism?), the relations will deteriorate if he is not Jewish too. He would close borders eventually and close us in. New York wont get culture razed no time soon. Now, if you are thinking that he is weak without the metals, think again. Everybody likes Washington! (JC,Asoka,Liz,KK pleased, Izzy friend, Alex cautious with +7, Toku cautious at +5, only Capac annoyed.) So, Washington's head DOESN'T look good on the end of a pole.

Please convert him too, it is very important to have him as a friend.

Research -- Paper then Education

Edit: I plan on playing these turns around 9:00 pm(EST) Saturday night. My thought is to play through obtaining Education.

That would be 20 turns, that's too much IMO. First take us to the point were all JC's and Washington's cities are converted, to see what's the situation. Of course, the captain should confirm. I hope you sort things out quickly Vra, it is not good that a team captain can't open the save.

To summarize the recommendations:

• We want JC and Washington to be Jewish.
• Don't trade yet to keep the Liberalism race safe.
• Watch the diplomatic situation regularly, study the game position thoroughly.
• If AI relations change a lot, if AI start trading CS or Philosophy away or if a war starts, we need to reevaluate.

 

[Yamps]

I approve the plan.

BUT, since I'm apparently unable to even load the save, I guess I'll have to resign. Not too fond about the idea.

Have you contacted the HoF support? What did the Assets checker say? There should be a solution to this problem.Don't resign!

 

[vra379971]

Yeah, so do I.

I'm going to devote by Monday morning to the attempt...

 

[marconos]

Sorry little late, Wife wanted to watch a movie.

Turn 107 -- 200 BC
Do nothing -- end turn
Paper in 2 turns
Missionary in 1 turn

Turn 108 -- 175 BC
Elizabeth wants Civil Service for free. Refused this, Julius Ceasar is annoyed with her and she is currently pleased with us. Drops relations with Elizabeth from +3 to +2 making her Cautious with us. Relations were going to sour with her anyway tdo to Nottingham but are going to improve when we adout Judaism.
Well hello there Catherine
Catherine only knows about Caesar(Pleased + 4), Tokugawa(Cautious -1) and Isabella(Cautious -1). She is Hindu. Trading wise same deal as the others. I got open borders with her as it appears safe to do. She has a Caravel off the coast by Madrid.

Washington is all longbows now.

Missionary is done, sending to Washington. Will not embbed in Washing till we know if the ones with Ceasar work or not. Work Started on Aqueduct, MM to a Scientist from the mine as it doesn't change when the Aqueduct will be completed.

Washington now has CivilService. Going to go one more turn hoping that Yamps is right about him not trading it .
Asoka has a large number of troops in Bombay, I see 12 units currently on my screen. This is very worriesome for me.

Turn 109 - 150BC
Paper done, researching Education, done in 14 turns.
No one else has Civil Service yet, I don't see anyone that can research education so I "think" we are ahead on the liberalism race so far. Not trading any techs this turn.
The buddaist world got a little friendlier today.
MM, adding 4th scientist Aqueduct still done in 2 turns.

Turn 110 - 125BC
Tokugawa(that backwards nut job) wants us to cancel deals with Elizabeth. We can't as I just refused a gift to her. I refuse. We are now at a -1(Cautious) with him -2 for refusing to stop trading with his worst enemy.

Judaism successfully spread to Washington and Rome.
Huayna Capac now has Crossbowman
Elizabeth has War Elephants
Kublai Khan has Frederick as his worst enemy and wants us to stop trading with him, this is from talking with him not a demand.
Alexander wants us to stop trading with Elizabeth his bitter enemy.
Isabella wants us to stop trading with Catherine her bitter enemy (already damn that was fast )

Turn 111 - 100BC
Asoka founds Islam in Bombay.
Aqueduct Complete -- work starts on a missionary for New York.

Asoka -- Alexander is his bitter enemy, would like us to stop trading with him.
Washington -- Really doesn't like Huayna Capac and wants us to stop trading with him.
Isabella -- scared of Ceasars military might

Nothing seems to have changes on the tech front.

Turn 112 - 75BC
MM, work second farm, missiony + growth next turn.
Judaism is in both of Ceasars cities. Next turn will attempt to put it in New York.
No changes on the tech front according to the trade screen.
Many minor religion changes for relations. Nothing major at this time.

Elizabeth -- wants us to stop trading with Alexander
Huayan Capac -- he's offering us a smoked hamster???? WTH does that mean

Ceasar is the most powerful again. I thought that the one with the most power would not sign a PA with you? Do we need to look at another option?

Turn 113 - 50BC
Missonary complete, setting production to Archer in 1 turn.
Back to 4 Scientist -- Education in 9 turns, can get to 8 if we go 5 scientists with no growth (grow in 8 turns working farm)
Missionary done, New York now has Judaism.
Elizabeth has a Great Artist on their way to Nottingham, I presum to culture bomb or embed in the city.
Asoka will now trade Music as Catherine now has it.
No change on Civil Service and Philosophy.
Cows fully connected now.
Our culture has taken more tiles away from New York.

Julius Caesar would like us to stop trading with his bitter rival Fredick

Power graph is starting to look worse. Catherine and Ceasar are fighting for the top position.

Game Turn Log
200 BC: You have trained a Jewish Missionary in Beijing. Work has now beun on a Aqueduct.
200 BC: Kulai Khan adopts Hereditary Rule!
175 BC: You have discovered Paper!
175 BC: Francis Bacon has been born in a far away land!
175 BC: Johannes Kepler has been born in Athens!
125 BC: Islam has been founded in Bombay!
100 BC: Ling Lun has been born in York!
100 BC: Notre Dame has been built in a far away land!
75 BC: Asoka has 100 gold available for trade
75 BC: Beijing has grown to size 12
75 BC: St. John has been born in a far away land!
75 BC: Huayan Capac adopts Hereditary Rule!
75 BC: Huayan Capac adopts Vassalage!
75 BC: Huayan Capac adopts Serfdom!
50 BC: New Tech(s) to trade: Asoka, Catherine


Stopping here -- my plan going forward
Next turn -- convert to Judaism, trade Civil Service and Philosphy to Catherine for Fuedalism, Compass, Monotheism and 20G. She only knows about Caesar, Asoka, Tokugawa and Isabella. The only person that doesn't like her is Isabella.
We then would bribe Washington and Ceasar to convert to Judaism.
Next turn we would set our Government to Pacifism.

Production would be Archer then Axeman to bump our numbers up a little. If Elizabeth doesn't culture bomb and take away the iron I would connect that up.

I don't have a place to host pictures so I'm going to upload the save of where things are currently at. I can do a few more turns or stop totally here. Your guys call.

Edit: Save uploaded.

 

[classical_hero]

I actually found that you can get the research faster is one of the farms is working a sea tile and that gets us up to 8 turns for education, without the need to stop growth.

 

[Yamps]

Good job Marconos!

The situation is truly complex. Washington and Liz really didn't trade techs away as predicted. More thinking is in order...Again.

 

[Yamps]

Here are some initial opinions. I encourage everybody to contribute at this point! We are planing to adopt a religion and racing to Liberalism, we need to be careful.

Huayna Capac now has Crossbowman

Ok, he has Machinery for the trade , that's good to know.

Asoka founds Islam in Bombay.

Islam + CS leads to Nationalism and Taj Mahal. I've just seen that Asoka has Philosophy, too! When did that happen? It looks like he researched it himself. There is a way to see what AI is researching sometimes, I forgot to mention it! He has almost researched CS, btw. You ask what you can get for your techs every turn. If the AI offers less than before, that's a very strong tell that the AI is researching the tech!

Huayan Capac -- he's offering us a smoked hamster???? WTH does that mean

Yeah, and Caesar made some salad.

Ceasar is the most powerful again. I thought that the one with the most power would not sign a PA with you? Do we need to look at another option?

There are ways to solve this. WastinTime suggested gifting units to the second in power. Cathy is very strong too, they are close together.

Elizabeth has a Great Artist on their way to Nottingham, I presum to culture bomb or embed in the city.

This is truly amazing. I've never seen an AI to culture bomb, this will be interesting. AI settles usually, but we'll see.

Stopping here -- my plan going forward
Next turn -- convert to Judaism, trade Civil Service and Philosphy to Catherine for Fuedalism, Compass, Monotheism and 20G. She only knows about Caesar, Asoka, Tokugawa and Isabella. The only person that doesn't like her is Isabella.
We then would bribe Washington and Ceasar to convert to Judaism.
Next turn we would set our Government to Pacifism.

Those trades would be wrong. They don't know Cathy, but they would still all see us getting 3 techs from someone else and count it towards theirs limit. Cathy is also very strong, she could win the Liberalism race herself.

We won't be able to bribe Washington yet because he isn't pleased with us. We'll need to make a lopsided trade with him first and then bribe him more to get him. JC is pleased with us with +5, this won't drop much right away when we convert. We'll get techs + convert to Judaism on the same deal. The exact converting timing is something to think about.

Production would be Archer then Axeman to bump our numbers up a little. If Elizabeth doesn't culture bomb and take away the iron I would connect that up.

I'm not sure about the archer, maybe a catapult instead? Upgrading archers costs money. Axeman is not useful anymore, we should get Machinery with trading. (Capac has it) Cho-Ko-Nu are much better.

Our GP will be born on the next turn. If we get a GA, we'll consider the bomb too.

I don't have a place to host pictures so I'm going to upload the save of where things are currently at. I can do a few more turns or stop totally here. Your guys call.

Well, there are many free upload services, it takes only a minute to open the account.

The current position requires close examination, let's wait a bit with the play. Converting to a religion is a dangerous thing, this is a critical position.

P.S. WFYBTA book account update

The limits are very close! I hope the mechanism is clear enough, every AI is counting the techs we get from someone else, not from them.

Spoiler :

Izzy 7/6 (reached limit! But we are both under 50% so she will trade.)
Toku 11/6 (why am I still counting him? He'll never trade anyway.)
Wash 9/12
Asoka 10/12
Liz 11/18
Alex, JC 4/6
Capac 3/6
Fred 2/12
Kublai 2/12
Cathy 0/MaxCathyLimit (need to look that up)

 

[classical_hero]

How do you count the tech trading limit for each civ? I can't remember where to find it.

I am not too sure we should trade right now, since we want to make sure that we can get Liberalism first and then we can trade away those techs for other techs that we don't have. ALso some of the techs available for trade are some techs we can research very quickly by us, so they are not worth trading for if we are giving away big techs for them.

 

[Yamps]

How do you count the tech trading limit for each civ? I can't remember where to find it.

I am not too sure we should trade right now, since we want to make sure that we can get Liberalism first and then we can trade away those techs for other techs that we don't have. ALso some of the techs available for trade are some techs we can research very quickly by us, so they are not worth trading for if we are giving away big techs for them.

I got 3 techs with trade during my turnset: Monarchy from Capac, Construction from Kublai and Currency from Fred. For example, Isabella knew we acquired 4 techs before that from somebody else. She then saw us getting 3 more techs and now she knows we acquired 7 techs from somebody else. Another example: Fred knew nothing of our trades. He than saw us acquiring 2 techs from somebody else, Kublai and Capac, so his count is 2. We met Cathy after the trades so hers count is 0.

This is based on Wfyabta by VoiceOfUnreason

I have some time now to look at the save closely. I'm inclined not to trade much too, but we'll see. We need to bribe JC with sth to convert, that's the problem. He could then start trading tech away, I'll check the personality file to evaluate the situation. Power and lack of Feudalism is also sth to think about. Asoka and Liz are back-stabbers btw, we should convert to Judaism ASAP to improve relations.

 

[Yamps]

I've examined the save carefully, this is a tough call.

Technology trading

We need ~20 turns till Liberalism. If we trade CS and Philosophy now, that will open Paper-Education-Liberalism beeline for the AI. AI could beat us, that's a strong possibility. I made some deity AI evaluation before, they need only ~55% of our beaker cost for the tech. On the other hand, Asoka is willing to trade stuff based on the personality file:

iNoTechTradeThreshold = 10 (willing to trade no matter what if the attitude is above 10)
iTechTradeKnownPercent = 20 (will trade when 20% of the known civs have the tech)

This means that Asoka is willing to trade, especially to Liz, Fred and Capac. Fred and Capac are willing to accept the trade, Liz probably not. This conclusion is based on their relations and the personality file. However, this has already happened at some point while Marconos played. There were no trades to Fred and Capac from Asoka, indicating that they don't have stuff to offer, Asoka is advanced compared to them.

Regarding Washington, he is less willing to trade (iNoTechTradeThreshold = 10, iTechTradeKnownPercent = 30) and he is only friendly to Izzy. Don't expect him to trade Philosophy away yet.

Liz is least willing to trade, iNoTechTradeThreshold = 15, iTechTradeKnownPercent = 40. Attitude shown towards Asoka is +8, the real number probably isn't +15.

Conclusion

Cross fingers and tech to Education. Then adopt Judaism and trade CS and Philosophy. Education we must keep at that point of course and possibly Paper too. This means postponing the religion and Pacifism a bit more. We'll be getting +1 from the same religion every +10 turns. (There is a cap for this of course.) That should be just in time for the DP. The role of Pacifism is too hurry up research, but if adopting Pacifism now causes tech bribing and jeopardizing the Liberalism race, that should wait.

Power

I don't trust Washington, Asoka and Liz. Warrior is well placed near Bombay to watch for troop movements. Scout should go to England IMO to watch too. I've checked the War Academy, HR brings 10000 soldiers! That's a lot. I recommend a strategic trade: HR for Drama + 60 from Izzy. This won't cause diplomatic penalties and won't cause WFYBTA problems, see the WFYBTA limit report. GA is bringing 3gpt, let's use that. Our free unit cap is 7, we only have 6 btw. I'm thinking 1 archer (2000 soldiers), 2 cats (each 3000 soldiers). Cats for suicide attacks to slow down the initial stack are important. That leaves room for one more unit at 100 % science.

Resource trade tricks

Let's use every trick in the book. # Subsidies and Aggressive Trading Practices

We don't need the Fur anymore and JC has 2 gpt available. So, here is the trick:
Give 1 gpt to JC. Check how much gpt for the trade he has and how much he will give for Fur.
If the gpt is still at 2gpt, trade Fur for 2 gpt.
If the gpt is at 3gpt, keep giving until the gpt reaches the limit.
Trade Fur for as much money as possible.
We cancel the free gpt when we can, but we don't cancel our Fur for cash deal and earn money.

We could do that with Fred too, but many civs don't like Fred, that might cause penalties.


So, what do you think?

I'm giving a lot of thought and effort into this game, but I'm actually not that experienced with higher levels. I would like to hear more opinions, it is very easy to miss something. I'll post some pictures for those of you not being able to open the save so you can see what's going on.

 

[Yamps]

City

Spoiler :

I actually found that you can get the research faster is one of the farms is working a sea tile and that gets us up to 8 turns for education, without the need to stop growth.

We would have to hire one more scientist too and stop using the Marble. That's an option, but that would considerably lower base production. 25 are shown because we have a lot of overflow now. GP will be born on the next turn, settling could be enough to bring one more turn. Actually, if we get a scientist, we have the option to lightbulb for Education! That's an important idea to consider! The usual OCC strategy is settle everything, I've completely forgotten bulbing.

Relations

Spoiler :

Tech_higher_half

Spoiler :

Tech_lower_half

Spoiler :