SGOTM 07 - Xteam

DJMGator13 · Jun 26, 2008

Good lordy :eek:

I just uploaded the save. Look at how we just squished everybody else's power graphs together.

Quick highlights: Tiwanku is ours. Stack is moving onto Karak. Madrid is awaiting Asoka to attack it, even though he has plunge a single artillery west of the city. I've moved the stack at Madrid to the south side of the city hoping that Asoka would join our stack instead he moved another tile south of that cow. :confused:

JC golden age is over and we now have a pair of GS in Beijing and we are only a few turns away from Biology.

Here's the save file.

Turn 164 to 174 log

Spoiler :

DJMGator13 · Jun 26, 2008

I stopped right after the IBT to turn 181, so every unit can be moved. We can see into Rome and Antium.

Antium is where JC has his big stack. He has 20 offensive units there but has not attacked us on 2 IBT yet and we're about to have SAM cover for the artillery there. I've got more detailed notes and will try to post a better play log.

Turn 175 to 181 log

Spoiler :

leif erikson · Jun 26, 2008

DJMGator13 said:
Good lordy I just uploaded the save. Look at how we just squished everybody else's graphs together.

Yes, but then check the power graph!

Nice work Gator. :goodjob:

Roster:
leif - UP
ShannonCT - On Deck
Jimmy Thunder
Cactus Pete
Frederiksberg
Mad Professor
rrau
Gator - Just played!

Mistfit - :scan:

Got to have a look at the save. Then off for :sleep:

See you in the morning...

DJMGator13 · Jun 26, 2008

Yes, but then check the power graph!

That was the one I was looking at. (I editted my post.)

I'm off to bed myself, nearly midnight and I have to work in the morning.

BTW, AI order is the same as on the "relations" and "technologies" tabs from the trading screens (F4). So Freddy does move before Asoka.

rrau · Jun 27, 2008

Power = XTeam^2

(At least I think that's a comprehensible joke from what I remember of algebra from over 20 years ago - could just be totally wrong :crazyeye:

)

Jimmy Thunder · Jun 27, 2008

That power graph is sweet! :goodjob:

ShannonCT · Jun 27, 2008

Good job Gator.

Looks like we have the units in place to kill most Roman units in the next few turns. Stack south of Madrid can kill three units there and move toward Rome next turn. Karakorum stack can clear Karakorum and load onto galleons for Beshbalik. Antium stack can attack in a couple turns after a few more units have assembled (from across the river?). Asoka has units heading toward Roman territory. If we stick with the plan of killing all but one defender and leaving a single artillery behind, Asoka should walk into those cities soon.

Frederiksberg · Jun 27, 2008

DJMGator13 said:
I just uploaded the save. Look at how we just squished everybody else's power graphs together.

I suppose it's no longer a secret to the other teams that we are heading for domination

. It will be interesting to see if MW and Misfits can keep their power lead compared to us.

I wonder if Asoka is reluctant to attack Madrid because it is squeezed by culture from all sides? Maybe he wants to capture Rome first? Anyway we have got to move on. I don't think we should leave an artillery behind - I would rather redirect one that is currently on its way from Beijing to Antium.

I think we should save our GS's for creating Academies in selected cities. Madrid may be a candidate now that Asoka is taking so long to capture. Provided that Asoka stay in Free Religion and Free Speech Madrid can get 2nd border expansion in only 6 turns with an Academy because it's also a Holy city. Without it will take 10 turns. The city that comes last out of revolt may also be a candidate for an Academy since this will mean fat cross expansion in one turn.

leif erikson · Jun 27, 2008

Frederiksberg said:
I suppose it's no longer a secret to the other teams that we are heading for domination . It will be interesting to see if MW and Misfits can keep their power lead compared to us.

Do you think it ever was a secret?

I'll be keeping an eye on the power graph. Should be interesting.

Frederiksberg said:
I wonder if Asoka is reluctant to attack Madrid because it is squeezed by culture from all sides? Maybe he wants to capture Rome first? Anyway we have got to move on. I don't think we should leave an artillery behind - I would rather redirect one that is currently on its way from Beijing to Antium.

Could be? I think this is right, we need to get a move on for Rome. There is an Artillery unit near Bombay that we can swing down to Madrid.

Asoka has units readily available for Antium and Karakorum, those shouldn't be a problem. Madrid is a problem and I think we need to ask Asoka to attack Madrid again. Don't know where that Artillery unit is heading, but I wish it would go back to Madrid.

@Gator - do you remember what is in Beshbalik? I ask because once Karakorum is taken, I wonder if we can reallocate some of the units to attacking Antium, if needed, and send the rest to Beshbalik? I'm a bit concerned that until Antium falls, Asoka may not prioritize getting troops to the west coast.

Frederiksberg said:
I think we should save our GS's for creating Academies in selected cities. Madrid may be a candidate now that Asoka is taking so long to capture. Provided that Asoka stay in Free Religion and Free Speech Madrid can get 2nd border expansion in only 6 turns with an Academy because it's also a Holy city. Without it will take 10 turns. The city that comes last out of revolt may also be a candidate for an Academy since this will mean fat cross expansion in one turn.

The best use for the two Scientists would seem to me to be Academies in Madrid and, possibly, Cuzco? As Cuzco has a head start on culture, it can fill the void between it and Berlin. Or would Berlin be better?

I'm a bit concerned about happiness in Beijing again? We are getting the double whammy, war weariness and emancipation demand. After Biology, we could head for Democracy, but that is going to take a while. Fighting Rome is also going to take some time and the question is how many more Artillery units should we produce? I think we will need some more to rapidly take Berlin, Hamburg and Kyoto, perhaps another stack of 6 or 7. Red faces will soon start to bite into production. We could build a couple of War Elephants as MP or we could bite the bullet and build Globe in 3 turns, not needing any more MP?

Good thing we're researching Biology! Just did another check of pop% and we're currently at 40.2%, of pop on our continent, with the requirement remaining 40. Talk about cutting it close?
On the other continent, Cyrus and Louis and Hattie and Monty are still duking it out. Probably not much will happen however regarding changing population numbers.

ShannonCT · Jun 27, 2008

leif erikson said:
The best use for the two Scientists would seem to me to be Academies in Madrid and, possibly, Cuzco? As Cuzco has a head start on culture, it can fill the void between it and Berlin. Or would Berlin be better?

Cuzco will get a second border expansion on its own soon (6 turns?). We'll know better where we need the expansion after Asoka starts capturing Roman cities.

leif erikson said:
I'm a bit concerned about happiness in Beijing again? We are getting the double whammy, war weariness and emancipation demand. After Biology, we could head for Democracy, but that is going to take a while. Fighting Rome is also going to take some time and the question is how many more Artillery units should we produce? I think we will need some more to rapidly take Berlin, Hamburg and Kyoto, perhaps another stack of 6 or 7. Red faces will soon start to bite into production. We could build a couple of War Elephants as MP or we could bite the bullet and build Globe in 3 turns, not needing any more MP?

Happiness wont be a problem. Each 10% on the culture slider gives 2 happiness. After Biology, there's really no important tech goal. Our GNP is not much compared to Asoka's anyway. We can reduce our beaker rate as much as we need for happiness and for saving some cash to upgrade our last grenadier.

leif erikson · Jun 27, 2008

ShannonCT said:
Happiness wont be a problem. Each 10% on the culture slider gives 2 happiness. After Biology, there's really no important tech goal. Our GNP is not much compared to Asoka's anyway. We can reduce our beaker rate as much as we need for happiness and for saving some cash to upgrade our last grenadier.

Thank you. I forgot about the culture slider! :rolleyes:

Been thinking about how to get to the next tech for so long... :faint:

Should have slept a little later... :lol:

Frederiksberg · Jun 27, 2008

Had an idea of how we can partially shut down Asoka's research after Biology is discovered. We ask for as much of his gpt as we can get. Then we give it back to him after a while as a lump sum of gold hoping that he will use it for upgrades. Of course we may need some of his gold ourselves for upgrading the odd grenadier or longbow to SAM. It may be possible to ask multiple times for more gpt.

ShannonCT · Jun 27, 2008

Frederiksberg said:
Had an idea of how we can partially shut down Asoka's research after Biology is discovered. We ask for as much of his gpt as we can get. Then we give it back to him after a while as a lump sum of gold hoping that he will use it for upgrades. Of course we may need some of his gold ourselves for upgrading the odd grenadier or longbow to SAM. It may be possible to ask multiple times for more gpt.

I'm not sure that we need to shut down Asoka's research. He needs very little gold for upgrades (Deity AI get a 95% discount). I would say we should get him to research Democracy so he can adopt Universal Suffrage for the hammer and rush-buying benefits. We just need to make sure he completes the research on Democracy so we can queue up the Statue of Liberty.

Frederiksberg · Jun 27, 2008

ShannonCT said:
I'm not sure that we need to shut down Asoka's research. He needs very little gold for upgrades (Deity AI get a 95% discount). I would say we should get him to research Democracy so he can adopt Universal Suffrage for the hammer and rush-buying benefits. We just need to make sure he completes the research on Democracy so we can queue up the Statue of Liberty.

Nonetheless Asoka has only upgraded 6 out of 33 units to SAMs and he doesn't have much gold. And he still hasn't upgraded the archers we have given to him

. We can always cancel the gpt deal later when all upgrades are done. I think it's more important to strengthen Asoka's (and our own) military than getting Democracy fast.

Mad Professor · Jun 27, 2008

Nice going Gator.

Asoka's unwillingness to upgrade is a concern. It means we're bleeding his treasury too much I suspect. :confused:

Let's try to find a way to knock the rest off in the minimum number of turns. I might even have a chance to look at the file this weekend... :eek:

leif erikson · Jun 27, 2008

Frederiksberg said:
Nonetheless Asoka has only upgraded 6 out of 33 units to SAMs and he doesn't have much gold. And he still hasn't upgraded the archers we have given to him . We can always cancel the gpt deal later when all upgrades are done. I think it's more important to strengthen Asoka's (and our own) military than getting Democracy fast.

Mad Professor said:
Asoka's unwillingness to upgrade is a concern. It means we're bleeding his treasury too much I suspect.

Wouldn't taking a few cities provide sufficient Gold for upgrades?

We're at a point where we really do not need to perform more upgrades, although a few might be nice. Once Asoka has Korakorum and Madrid (or Antium), at 95% upgrade cost, he should be able to perform all the upgrades he needs?

DJMGator13 · Jun 27, 2008

Mad Professor said:
Nice going Gator.

Asoka's unwillingness to upgrade is a concern. It means we're bleeding his treasury too much I suspect.

That is correct, but I put the gold to better use then he did at the time. Now it is his turn for the gold. Ive been taking Asokas gold almost as fast as he got it, so hes never really had a chance to spend it. It allowed us to keep our science at 100% or 90% while still upgrading almost every unit we have. We still have a few older units to upgrade; only pressing one might be the frontline medic cat.

There is a w/b on the way to Spartas fish and I qued up another w/b this turn that can head for the second whale by London or the fish by Tiwanaku, if it was destroyed by Asoka. This will also give us another hammer overflow and put us back on 1 turn artillery for several turns.

The Tiwanaku capture for Asoka was nice because HC had 2 workers and a settler in the city on capture. We can also sail thru the city and drop off near Berlin now if needed. Our 2 frigates have killed 2 Roman galleys and a caravel trying to get past Tiwanaku, theres another caravel guarding a sea resource in that southern strait but Ive seen nothing else coming through. Our galleon could not see into Besbalik when it headed to Rome.

Hindu missionary was successful in Cuzco on turn 176 1160AD.

Louis and Salad made peace on the IBT to 179 1190AD

Something major I noticed late in my turnset was that JC did not attack the Madrid stack until I moved into his territory. So while I attacked from German lands he never counter attacked us. So far he has not attacked the 2 artillery pieces at Antium even though he has 20 offensive type units in the city. If this holds true we should be able to sit on that German tile NW of the Antium and pick off every unit without ever facing a counter attack. Apparently he can only attack us if he declares on Freddy.

Some other notes for leif:

- make sure to use the <ctrl> key when selecting the next unit to build so it goes in front of the Apollo and the 2 turn artillery piece.
- I was able to get Salads 150 gold by asking him to help a friend which he gladly did. Hatty and Louis helped us also. I asked these 3 during turn 177 1170AD, collecting 150 gold, 50 gold and 20 gold respectively.
- I did the marble trade for 4 gpt on turn 177 and then Asoka gave us an extra marble right back so we still have a marble we dont really need.
- Ive stayed away from trading for both Military Tradition and Economic to keep Asoka from wasting hammers building West Point and switching civics (as team discussed earlier).
- Units loaded on a galleon in a city can not unload that turn (unless in another city)
- War weariness seems to spike on the IBT that we eliminate a civ, youll have to adjust with the culture slider for a turn and then reassess the next turn. I saw +5 WW when we eliminated Alex while still at war with HC and then we got to +4 WW when we eliminated HC. Now that we have the extra +2 unhappy from emancipation this needs to be watched so it doesnt surprise you.
- Were currently earning +1fpt so there was no need to convert our mined plain hill to a windmill. But if we did convert it to a windmill I think we could give away one of our health resource (rice or corn) back to Asoka to aid his growth.
- There is also a crab resource that is needs a w/b (not a high priority) in our territory north of London. We could get some minor gpt for it, but food for Asoka with w/b is a much higher priority.

DJMGator13 · Jun 27, 2008

I just went back thru my notes and not counting the gold we got from gpt deals, I pulled in just over 2900 gold during my set. Surpisingly it was almost a 50-50 split between gifts from Asoka and trades from other AIs. We got 1475 from Asoka and 1440 from the others thru selling techs, demands and "asking for help".

ShannonCT · Jun 27, 2008

DJMGator13 said:
I just went back thru my notes and not counting the gold we got from gpt deals, I pulled in just over 2900 gold during my set. Surpisingly it was almost a 50-50 split between gifts from Asoka and trades from other AIs. We got 1475 from Asoka and 1440 from the others thru selling techs, demands and "asking for help".

That would explain the lack of upgraded units for Asoka. I expect that left to his own devices, Asoka will upgrade his units quite quickly.

leif erikson · Jun 27, 2008

The Plan.

Military.
We have a stack headed for Karakorum and it is accompanied by a Rifle and Grenadier of Asoka's. This stack heads for and takes Karakorum.

There is a stack building near Antium.This stack bombards Antium to 0% culture and then we need to decide if we can "safely" attack across the river or not. With 15% culture, the Artillery have a 74.5% chance of victory. Should that go above 80%, I think we should attack from the safety of Fred's lands. Asoka has units in the area that should be able to come to claim the city shortly.

Now for the problem, Madrid. I think the stack south of Madrid needs to head for Rome this turn, especially with Asoka's Artillery unit headed that way. There is an Artillery unit north of Bombay that can be at Madrid in three turns. The risk is that Julius will reinforce Madrid and require us to bring other units to attack it, delaying its fall. I think this may be worth taking as there are no units of Asoka's close to being there, so I think we should request Asoka attack Madrid.

We will need to see what Asoka's Artillery unit does? If it goes to Rome, hopefully it won't suicide? :eek:

If all goes well, we should get Rome fairly quickly, optimistically looking at it now? Who knows what will happen, but we should have it reduced as quickly as possible.

Once we have Rome under control, Antium, Madrid and Karakorum in hand, then we should declare on Fred and work on Berlin and, if enough units are available from home, Hamburg. Then on to Kyoto.

Logisitics.
Work Boats to Sparta and Tiwanaku.
Workers continue to farm around cities for maximum pop growth with Biology.
We continue to produce Artillery units as quickly as we can.

I see no worker turns needed in our territory at this time.
Need to keep an eye on WW and the culture slider.

Antium, Karakorum and Beshbalik are not Hindu, but as long as Asoka keeps Free Religion, all should produce culture to fuel border expansion. As SCT pointed out, Cuzco will indeed get a second border expansion in 6 turns, that's good!

Once we have cities in hand and can see what Asoka is building, we can stop and assess where we want to employ our Great Scientists.

Finances.
I believe that Asoka will have sufficient Gold for upgrades if I can leave him alone after city capture. Karakorum and Antium should provide more than enough Gold for his upgrades.

Once Biology is researched, we shut down research and use the culture slider to maintain order. If we have anything left, we can put it into research with Asoka. The other option, if we're worried about Asoka's Gold supply, would be to set research to 0% and gift the excess Gold in lump sums to Asoka each turn?

Due to our power rating, I think that if we need Gold we can go to the civs pleased with us and ask for it as Gator has done and we should get it.

I think we should allow Asoka to head for Democracy but keep in mind that when he completes it, we need to get Statue of Liberty in our queue. It appears that we do not need any hammers against the wonders, they simply need to be queued up? Is this correct?

As Gator reminded me, we should avoid trading for Military Science or Economics.

Within three turns, Asoka will produce 3 SAM's and 2 Arty units. :thumbsup:

What did I forget? :crazyeye:

SGOTM 07 - Xteam

Still breathing

Still breathing

Game of the Month Fanatic

Still breathing

Emperor

King

Deity

Deity

Game of the Month Fanatic

Deity

Game of the Month Fanatic

Deity

Deity

Deity

Deity

Game of the Month Fanatic

Still breathing

Still breathing

Deity

Game of the Month Fanatic

Similar threads