SGOTM 07 - Xteam

[Cactus Pete]

Not much to add late to the discussion. Where Asoka sends his lone artillery piece that is in Roman territory may tell us something about where he is inclined to attack.

We need to set up to chain our galleons. Don't think anchoring them together is optimal.

Tiwanaku is going to lose pop and possibly revolt to Germany, so growth is looking a bit more important. Cuzco is small and will grow quickly. Farm the forest ENE of the city.

Still have two longbows in our capital. We have full range of the culture slider. Let's get at least one longbow to Madrid, hopefully to gift there to Asoka after he takes the city.

 

[leif erikson]

We need to set up to chain our galleons. Don't think anchoring them together is optimal.

I assume you mean Karakorum to Rome? OK, I can do that...

Tiwanaku is going to lose pop and possibly revolt to Germany, so growth is looking a bit more important. Cuzco is small and will grow quickly. Farm the forest ENE of the city.

OK.

Still have two longbows in our capital. We have full range of the culture slider. Let's get at least one longbow to Madrid, hopefully to gift there to Asoka after he takes the city.

Good idea.

 

[Cactus Pete]

The Plan.

Military.
We have a stack headed for Karakorum and it is accompanied by a Rifle and Grenadier of Asoka's. This stack heads for and takes Karakorum.

There is a stack building near Antium.This stack bombards Antium to 0% culture and then we need to decide if we can "safely" attack across the river or not. With 15% culture, the Artillery have a 74.5% chance of victory. Should that go above 80%, I think we should attack from the safety of Fred's lands. Asoka has units in the area that should be able to come to claim the city shortly. I'd argue that we should fortify our SAM on the hill and move our artillery to attack from there. We can move units back into Germany to heal.

Now for the problem, Madrid. I think the stack south of Madrid needs to head for Rome this turn, especially with Asoka's Artillery unit headed that way. If it is headed there, then on to Rome too, but if not, then we may want to send just enough units to Rome to safely bring down its culture and send the rest after Asoka's artillery (perhaps to Antium). Think we should leave the medic artillery and the badly wounded gren and art in place to heal and help finish off two more units. There is an Artillery unit north of Bombay that can be at Madrid in three turns. The risk is that Julius will reinforce Madrid and require us to bring other units to attack it, delaying its fall. I think this may be worth taking as there are no units of Asoka's close to being there, so I think we should request Asoka attack Madrid.

Logisitics.
Work Boats to Sparta and Tiwanaku.
Workers continue to farm (see earlier post)around cities for maximum pop growth with Biology.
We continue to produce Artillery units as quickly as we can.

What did I forget?

Don't forget that you have galleons available to speed movement, and the one near Rome can check on the forces protecting St. Petersburg and Heliopolis, just in case we need to raze one of them.

 

[ShannonCT]

We need to set up to chain our galleons. Don't think anchoring them together is optimal.

But it's only two turns by galleon from Karakorum to Rome. With three galleons anchored at Karakorum, we can bring up to 9 units to Rome in two turns. Chaining doesn't help for such short trips.

I'd advise that we move our stack toward Karakorum so that units can either load onto a galleon OR move by land toward Antium to help out there. With the Madrid stack attacking Rome, and the Antium stack attacking Antium, we'll soon know where the extra Karakorum units will be needed. So we want them in position where they can reach either city quickly.

Now for the problem, Madrid. I think the stack south of Madrid needs to head for Rome this turn, especially with Asoka's Artillery unit headed that way. There is an Artillery unit north of Bombay that can be at Madrid in three turns. The risk is that Julius will reinforce Madrid and require us to bring other units to attack it, delaying its fall. I think this may be worth taking as there are no units of Asoka's close to being there, so I think we should request Asoka attack Madrid.

I would let some of our stronger artillery attack Madrid this turn and move for Rome next turn. That will give some of our weaker units a chance to heal. The artillery from the north can "guard" Madrid until Asoka takes it. Asoka's wandering arty shouldn't suicide on Rome. It should bombard, if anything. Or maybe Julius will kill it.

Once we have Rome under control, Antium, Madrid and Karakorum in hand, then we should declare on Fred and work on Berlin and, if enough units are available from home, Hamburg. Then on to Kyoto.

Yes, Kyoto should be last, as we wont need the tiles from Kyoto, just the population.

I'd argue that we should fortify our SAM on the hill and move our artillery to attack from there. We can move units back into Germany to heal.

I think moving into Roman land next to Antium should be safe. Julius is not suiciding his cats against either of our other two stacks in his territory. I guess we're just too damn powerful.

 

[leif erikson]

On Antium, there are 5 Cats in the city. Wouldn't they cause us some problems with regard to strength points lost if they attack us on that hill? We are immune in Fred's lands.

 

[leif erikson]

I would let some of our stronger artillery attack Madrid this turn and move for Rome next turn. That will give some of our weaker units a chance to heal. The artillery from the north can "guard" Madrid until Asoka takes it. Asoka's wandering arty shouldn't suicide on Rome. It should bombard, if anything. Or maybe Julius will kill it.

The two weakest units can both be promoted, helping them heal. I'm a little worried that we may wound some stronger units in doing this.

We should probably send our Frigates to Rome to help bombard?

I think moving into Roman land next to Antium should be safe. Julius is not suiciding his cats against either of our other two stacks in his territory. I guess we're just too damn powerful.

That would be good news. I'll try it this way if you wish...

 

[DJMGator13]

Asoka moved that lone artillery into Roman lands on the IBT to turn 178, he pillaged the cow on T179, the road on T180 and then moved south on T181. JC either did not attack it or caused no damage to it. JC has reinforced Madrid a few times by moving a few muskets into it. This is the most units Madrid has had since I initially attacked it because I've moved all units the last 2 turns without attacking. Asoka's artillery may be headed for the silks and not Rome.

Once I moved the Madrid stack into Roman lands JC did counter attack it. He hit with a cat and an xbow the first turn and then just an xbow the second turn.

An initial option to deal with the cats at Antium may be to only move a SAM onto the hill while bombing the defense from German lands. Then see if JC wastes the cats against the single SAM before moving the artillery to the hill. If we move the SAM and artillery at the same time those 5 cats will score collateral damage on our units.

I've not upgraded the 2 longbows in Beijing because after a few turns of war we need them for MP duty. But since we can start using the culture slider more moving one of them out would be okay.

EDIT: if you get to where it takes 2 turns for an artillery builds again, then que up another w/b. That will gve you the hammer overflow you need to get back to 1 turn artillery.

If we have enough artillery to weaken the cities should we start gifting new units directly to Asoka to help speed him up?

 

[DJMGator13]

Oh yeah, one last thing to keep an eye on while playing and that would be CYRUS. Here's why, on the IBT to T177:

IBT:
State Religion Change: Cyrus(Persia) from 'no State Religion' to 'Confucianism'
Attitude Change: Montezuma(Aztec) towards Cyrus(Persia), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Julius Caesar(Rome) towards SGOTM07(China), from 'Cautious' to 'Furious'
Attitude Change: Julius Caesar(Rome) towards Asoka(India), from 'Cautious' to 'Furious'
Attitude Change: Hatshepsut(Egypt) towards Cyrus(Persia), from 'Pleased' to 'Friendly'
Attitude Change: Asoka(India) towards Julius Caesar(Rome), from 'Pleased' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Cyrus(Persia) towards SGOTM07(China), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Cyrus(Persia) towards Frederick(Germany), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Cyrus(Persia) towards Julius Caesar(Rome), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Cyrus(Persia) towards Hatshepsut(Egypt), from 'Pleased' to 'Friendly'
Attitude Change: Cyrus(Persia) towards Tokugawa(Japan), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards Mansa Musa(Mali), from 'Annoyed' to 'Furious'
Attitude Change: Catherine(Russia) towards SGOTM07(China), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Catherine(Russia) towards Cyrus(Persia), from 'Pleased' to 'Friendly'
Attitude Change: Huayna Capac(Inca) towards Cyrus(Persia), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Louis XIV(France) towards Cyrus(Persia), from 'Annoyed' to 'Furious'
Civics Change: Cyrus(Persia) from 'Hereditary Rule' to 'Representation'
Civics Change: Cyrus(Persia) from 'Free Religion' to 'Theocracy'

 

[leif erikson]

Just checked the save and Cyrus is back to pleased with us.

Cathy is now cautious...

EDIT:

If we have enough artillery to weaken the cities should we start gifting new units directly to Asoka to help speed him up?

I don't know if we'll ever have enough Artillery...
Forming another stack and moving it to the Kyoto/Hamburg area seems like the fastest way to achieve Domination as it'll save movement time that our forces that are further south will require.

 

[Frederiksberg]

The two weakest units can both be promoted, helping them heal. I'm a little worried that we may wound some stronger units in doing this.

We could promote the grenadier to medic and after the attack put the most wounded units with a medic on the galleon and sail it outside Roman borders for a couple of turns of healing. Rest of the group moves over land to Rome with the other medic. I think Gator is right that Asoka'a wandering artillery is on a pillaging mission so it makes no sense to follow this unit. Let's follow our own plan!

We should probably send our Frigates to Rome to help bombard?

Yes, good idea.

Chaining doesn't help for such short trips

Chaining helps in cases where you can't fill all you galleons with units. You can see it as a way to convert surplus transport capacity into increased transport speed. In the present case we can fill our galleons so chaining is of no use.

Finances.
I believe that Asoka will have sufficient Gold for upgrades if I can leave him alone after city capture. Karakorum and Antium should provide more than enough Gold for his upgrades.

I don't think we should wait for Asoka to capture cities and here is what I propose we do: Ask Asoka for 52 gpt. This will more than cover our deficit. Now we give him all our gold (183) so he will immediately have money for many upgrades. We will also be able to keep our science slider high which is the best situation because we have many beaker multipliers. So it's better to take some of Asoka's gpt and use it to finance our research. This GPT deal wil probably cause Asoka to drop his science rate by 20% and that is only a 2 turn delay on Democracy so I really don't see any reason not to do this. The gpt deal can be canceled after 6 turns if we don't need it by then.

Oh yeah, one last thing to keep an eye on while playing and that would be CYRUS. Here's why, on the IBT to T177:

Cyrus is still at war with Louis. Isn't it unlikely that he will declare on us when he is already at war? Cathy, on the other hand, may declare on us. She's saying "We have enough on our hands" and that usually means that she's about to go to war. Fortunately she doesn't have any Cossacks.

Yes, Kyoto should be last, as we wont need the tiles from Kyoto, just the population.

Good observation! If Madrid has 2nd border expansion and Hamburg has fat cross expansion we cover all except one tile around Kyoto as soon as it is captured.

 

[leif erikson]

We could promote the grenadier to medic and after the attack put the most wounded units with a medic on the galleon and sail it outside Roman borders for a couple of turns of healing. Rest of the group moves over land to Rome with the other medic. I think Gator is right that Asoka'a wandering artillery is on a pillaging mission so it makes no sense to follow this unit. Let's follow our own plan!

Ok, I think this sounds reasonable enough.

I was also thinking about two things.
One is distribution of forces. Once we take Karakorum, we have several units available. One place to go is Beshbalik, but another is Antium, where most of Julius' forces are. Perhaps we should send a couple of Artillery to Antium if needed. The rest can head for Beshbalik, or if Rome is causing problems, there.

I would like to move the Galleons to the west coast as they could be used after the fall or Rome to move Artillery units north to both Hamburg and Kyoto. The Frigates could also be used to reduce Kyoto's culture. The other advantage to having the navy on the west coast is that, should we need to move against the other continent, the ship would be located near where our troops are.

I don't think we should wait for Asoka to capture cities and here is what I propose we do: Ask Asoka for 52 gpt. This will more than cover our deficit. Now we give him all our gold (183) so he will immediately have money for many upgrades. We will also be able to keep our science slider high which is the best situation because we have many beaker multipliers. So it's better to take some of Asoka's gpt and use it to finance our research. This GPT deal wil probably cause Asoka to drop his science rate by 20% and that is only a 2 turn delay on Democracy so I really don't see any reason not to do this. The gpt deal can be canceled after 6 turns if we don't need it by then.

I think this is worth doing. It would provide him enough Gold to do a lot of upgrades at 95% of cost. Especially before we face off with Fred.

Cyrus is still at war with Louis. Isn't it unlikely that he will declare on us when he is already at war? Cathy, on the other hand, may declare on us. She's saying "We have enough on our hands" and that usually means that she's about to go to war. Fortunately she doesn't have any Cossacks.

Hopefully, she will pay attention to matters on her own continent.

I hope to begin playing this evening, in 10 hours or so.

 

[DJMGator13]

We could promote the grenadier to medic and after the attack put the most wounded units with a medic on the galleon and sail it outside Roman borders for a couple of turns of healing. Rest of the group moves over land to Rome with the other medic. I think Gator is right that Asoka'a wandering artillery is on a pillaging mission so it makes no sense to follow this unit. Let's follow our own plan!

I think that is our last grenadier that needs upgrading too. He couldn't do it from German lands.

Cyrus is still at war with Louis. Isn't it unlikely that he will declare on us when he is already at war? Cathy, on the other hand, may declare on us. She's saying "We have enough on our hands" and that usually means that she's about to go to war. Fortunately she doesn't have any Cossacks.

I think Cathy's been that way for a while, you commented about that during one of the "attached" saves. I'm surprised she hasn't joined the French War on one side or the other. I'm also wondering if our selling Marble to her for 4 gpt on T177, which came right after Cyrus changed religion and civics, had any effect on her not declaring on somebody.

BTW, we only have 2 galleons by Tiwanaku. Asoka has a galleon in the area also. Frigates remained behind to make sure nothing could pillage our western sea resources. After seeing the large stack of units in Antium, I wanted to see what JC had in Rome is why I sent the empty galleon ahead first.

Just checked the save and Cyrus is back to pleased with us.

Cathy is now cautious...

Cool, I missed that Cyrus was back to pleased. Then he'd be willing to "give us help" but his power is high so he might decline if we ask for his gold. He was cautious towards us when I asked the other 3 so I didn't ask him for his gold.

 

[Cactus Pete]

edited below

 

[Cactus Pete]

On Antium, there are 5 Cats in the city. Wouldn't they cause us some problems with regard to strength points lost if they attack us on that hill? We are immune in Fred's lands.

You have a point, but I think a compromise might be best: Move the SAM and just one artillery onto the hill (and reduce culture with the remainder). Not at all sure JC will attack just two units. If he does, we won't suffer much collateral damage, and he will weaken himself so that we can then move the rest of them onto the hill. If he does not attack, then our initial artillery barrage will be 25% more effective and you will then have the choice of continuing the attack from over the river against weakened units or exchanging wounded artillery for fresh one(s)on the hill and continuing the attack from there.

 

[leif erikson]

You have a point, but I think a compromise might be best: Move the SAM and just one artillery onto the hill (and reduce culture with the remainder). Not at all sure JC will attack just two units. If he does, we won't suffer much collateral damage, and he will weaken himself so that we can then move the rest of them onto the hill. If he does not attack, then our initial artillery barrage will be 25% more effective and you will then have the choice of continuing the attack from over the river against weakened units or exchanging wounded artillery for fresh one(s)on the hill and continuing the attack from there.

Good idea. In some ways, I hope he attacks...


Planning to start in about 2 hours.

 

[leif erikson]

I'm on the job, also monitoring the forum.

 

[DJMGator13]

I'd move to the hill as CP suggest (1 SAM & 1 Art). If we eliminate the 25% river bonus & culture bonus the 3x promo'd LB will defend at 13.5 vrs the 15.9 it is registering now. That should easily push us into the 80% range. The next best defender after that single unit is those muskets which will defend at 12.2, should take our rate into the 90%.

 

[leif erikson]

I'd move to the hill as CP suggest (1 SAM & 1 Art). If we eliminate the 25% river bonus & culture bonus the 3x promo'd LB will defend at 13.5 vrs the 15.9 it is registering now. That should easily push us into the 80% range. The next best defender after that single unit is those muskets which will defend at 12.2, should take our rate into the 90%.

I did as CP suggested and we were savagely counter attacked, We killed 4 Cats, 2 Muskets and six Maces before losing 2 SAMs and an Artillery. Since then, we have attacked from Fred's territory and all is well. As soon as Asoka gets units there, it'll be ours.

Have played through turn 184, so far so good.

 

[DJMGator13]

I did as CP suggested and we were savagely counter attacked, We killed 4 Cats, 2 Muskets and six Maces before losing 2 SAMs and an Artillery. Since then, we have attacked from Fred's territory and all is well. As soon as Asoka gets units there, it'll be ours.

Have played through turn 184, so far so good.

The plus side of that battle is you took out 12 of the 20 units on 1 IBT. He can't produce replacements that fast. If more troops show up in mass then they are coming from another city. Once this stack of units is gone JC should be toast.

 

[leif erikson]

The plus side of that battle is you took out 12 of the 20 units on 1 IBT. He can't produce replacements that fast. If more troops show up in mass then they are coming from another city. Once this stack of units is gone JC should be toast.

He'll be toast if Asoka ever gets a move on. I'm nearly ready to declare on Fred, but I'm waiting for Asoka to wake up. He has units in the area but won't go to Julius' cities. arrgggggh!