ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
The nice thing about a warrior build in that circumstance is that when the axe arrives, the warrior can be sent to explore.
SGOTM 08 - Smurkz
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
That's a very appealing compromise to me. 
Though I'd actually rather send the Axe to explore than the warrior.
I still haven't had a chance to try out settling 3W-2S, today was simply too good weather.
I hope I can find some time tomorrow. But that's of course no reason not to try it for any of the rest of you. 
Though I'd actually rather send the Axe to explore than the warrior.I still haven't had a chance to try out settling 3W-2S, today was simply too good weather.
I hope I can find some time tomorrow. But that's of course no reason not to try it for any of the rest of you. 
Backwards Logic
Emperor Palpatine
Since all of what we need to decide comes after the settler is made, why don't I play up to turn 41 or so, post where we're at, and go from there?
And wherever we put the 2nd city, we should definitely build a worker there first since our other one will soon be boarding a boat to go quarry marble. Wherever we stick this 2nd city is going to require a lot of land to be upgraded. Also, I would suggest starting pyramids there asap, perhaps after the worker is done or perhaps after building a granary, but the sooner we get started on that the sooner we can switch to representation to get our specialists rolling.
And wherever we put the 2nd city, we should definitely build a worker there first since our other one will soon be boarding a boat to go quarry marble. Wherever we stick this 2nd city is going to require a lot of land to be upgraded. Also, I would suggest starting pyramids there asap, perhaps after the worker is done or perhaps after building a granary, but the sooner we get started on that the sooner we can switch to representation to get our specialists rolling.
Xcalibrator
Ultraviolet Catastrophe
Being new at this, I just want to be sure... The file in post #209 is just a WB test file to play around with, right? It is NOT the real game, right?
Xcalibrator
Ultraviolet Catastrophe
If the worker roaded the gold by turn 38, then the warrior wouldn't have to return to the capital for happiness and could instead be sent ahead to protect the imminent settler, wherever he's headed.
I haven't looked at the specs for the second city, but won't it be a lot quicker to build its worker in the capital rather then there? The second city could start on its warrior while our capital builds a worker for it.
I just realized that we can't build a Warrior in the second town. Since Copper is connected, the Axe supercedes the Warrior. So a better idea is probably to cram in a worker build in the capitol at some point - obviously before Copper is connected. I'll have a look and see what I can come up with.
Yes, roading the gold first means we won't have happiness issues at size 5. But it means delaying the Copper by four turns, and will cost us a worker turn in the longer run (which may not be a big deal). It also means the capitol won't have an improved hill to work upon growth to size 5. But there may be a nice synergy to be found between this point and the former.
Yes, roading the gold first means we won't have happiness issues at size 5. But it means delaying the Copper by four turns, and will cost us a worker turn in the longer run (which may not be a big deal). It also means the capitol won't have an improved hill to work upon growth to size 5. But there may be a nice synergy to be found between this point and the former.
Hmm, we don't *have to* connect the copper right away, do we? We could leave it unroaded until after that warrior finishes. It'd cost us a couple of worker moves (and trade route gold, come to think of it), and I'm not sure it's worth it, but it could be done.
All in all, it does seem better done in the capital.
All in all, it does seem better done in the capital.
Ok, here's a new attempt at a sheet:
The main difference from before is that after the current Workboat we build a Warrior, instead of another Workboat for the Clams.
As you can see I hid the GPP and culture columns for now, they're not really relevant to us at this point. This delays the Clams quite a lot, but we will probably want to work the Copper with the second town early on anyway, to get a Worker out. Worker would take 8 turns, then Granary in 5, that's 13 turns working only the Copper, so the Clams will still be online fast enough. I would rather build that worker in the second town actually, since there's so much that the capitol needs to build still. The early warrior means we won't have to turn our other warrior around, he can scout a bit and then protect our settler. And we don't need to road the Gold early either, having that other warrior around for MP duty.
These numbers still assume a 3W second town. Not sure yet how much different a 3W-2S plan would look, or if it's even feasible.
The main difference from before is that after the current Workboat we build a Warrior, instead of another Workboat for the Clams.
As you can see I hid the GPP and culture columns for now, they're not really relevant to us at this point. This delays the Clams quite a lot, but we will probably want to work the Copper with the second town early on anyway, to get a Worker out. Worker would take 8 turns, then Granary in 5, that's 13 turns working only the Copper, so the Clams will still be online fast enough. I would rather build that worker in the second town actually, since there's so much that the capitol needs to build still. The early warrior means we won't have to turn our other warrior around, he can scout a bit and then protect our settler. And we don't need to road the Gold early either, having that other warrior around for MP duty.
These numbers still assume a 3W second town. Not sure yet how much different a 3W-2S plan would look, or if it's even feasible.
Xcalibrator
Ultraviolet Catastrophe
Hmm, what's going on with the hammers around turn 39?
Yes, keeping a warrior in the capital means we don't have to hook up the gold, but it sounds like you'd like to send the other warrior off exploring. I (and Renata) would be happier if that warrior was posted in or very near the 2nd city. As you mentioned earlier, it would be safer to send an axe for the exploring, and it looks like we'll have one to check out the land to the S before we need to decide on the 3rd city site.
Can you stick in a note somewhere about trading resources to Shaka once we have Sailing? Let the appeasement begin ASAP.
Yes, keeping a warrior in the capital means we don't have to hook up the gold, but it sounds like you'd like to send the other warrior off exploring. I (and Renata) would be happier if that warrior was posted in or very near the 2nd city. As you mentioned earlier, it would be safer to send an axe for the exploring, and it looks like we'll have one to check out the land to the S before we need to decide on the 3rd city site.
Can you stick in a note somewhere about trading resources to Shaka once we have Sailing? Let the appeasement begin ASAP.
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
Xcalibrator, I'm pretty sure Niklas is only talking about exploring with our current warrior in the current 10-15 turns. He's not talking about sending it out after the axe is built.
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
The spreadsheet as listed in post #250 doesn't compute. What are we building on turns 36-38 in order to allow growth to pop 5?
Interestingly, we could build a third warrior - it fits exactly in that slot. And with three warriors, we could perhaps have enough perimeter guards to do without the axe for a few extra turns...
edit - however, playing the worldbuilder save, I had a barbarian city appear in the jungle, so maybe we need that axe after all. I do like the idea of a third warrior for peacekeeping duties though. A cheap upgradable unit is not a bad thing.
Interestingly, we could build a third warrior - it fits exactly in that slot. And with three warriors, we could perhaps have enough perimeter guards to do without the axe for a few extra turns...
edit - however, playing the worldbuilder save, I had a barbarian city appear in the jungle, so maybe we need that axe after all. I do like the idea of a third warrior for peacekeeping duties though. A cheap upgradable unit is not a bad thing.
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
Could we consider pausing research for one turn, putting 100% into treasury? If we do this on turn 36 or later, it would give us 20 gold to allow flexible responses to random events.
Ah yes, I knew there was something funny with the shields, there were a bunch missing. Those 18 shields on turn 39 were intended as a prebuild of the third workboat, but after I'd done the Settler and Granary builds I forgot all about them.
Yes, we could build a third warrior there. Then more or less everything else would be as stated in the plan. The other alternative is to let that be the WB prebuild I intended, which would down the line speed up the Galley by two turns and the Lighthouse by one turn.
I think we should run a turn (or two) at 0% research after Writing is in (that's when slave revolts become an issue), but since the effects of a second town are not calculated in the sheet I haven't bothered to try to model that in the sheet. It should even out more or less, and I'm pretty sure I err on the safe side.
And Xc, yes, I don't mean to send that warrior out too far. Only to check the immediate land to the southwest, so we can properly plan our settlement dotmap. But not too far, lest the bear eats him too...
Yes, we could build a third warrior there. Then more or less everything else would be as stated in the plan. The other alternative is to let that be the WB prebuild I intended, which would down the line speed up the Galley by two turns and the Lighthouse by one turn.
I think we should run a turn (or two) at 0% research after Writing is in (that's when slave revolts become an issue), but since the effects of a second town are not calculated in the sheet I haven't bothered to try to model that in the sheet. It should even out more or less, and I'm pretty sure I err on the safe side.
And Xc, yes, I don't mean to send that warrior out too far. Only to check the immediate land to the southwest, so we can properly plan our settlement dotmap. But not too far, lest the bear eats him too...
Thinking about it some more, I'm starting to agree with Chris that having a third warrior would be rather nice. The costs on improvement and expansion are marginal, but having a fogbuster or backup MP will give us a lot more flexibility in handling units, including the settlers sent out to claim new land.
I then suggest that the sheet be tweaked to let those 3 spurious hammers allow us to work 2 Fish + Gold on all three turns 44-46, and still finish the Granary on time. That would mean +1 food compared with the previous scheme, as well as +7 beakers.
I then suggest that the sheet be tweaked to let those 3 spurious hammers allow us to work 2 Fish + Gold on all three turns 44-46, and still finish the Granary on time. That would mean +1 food compared with the previous scheme, as well as +7 beakers.
I like the plan; I think it works pretty well. Could BL play his turnset then? As has been pointed out, our choice of second city site shouldn't affect what we do in those turns, and it would be nice to have the scouting report from the SW.
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
I concur - Niklas, can you post the revised spreadsheet and then BL can play the turnset.
Sure thing, here's the revised sheet:
r_rolo1
King of myself
I do like the idea of having more warriors before BW. It will surely help with the fogbusting and the scouting........
And that is a good issue to be discussed: are we going to fogbust a lot? I would prefer to explore the south instead of fogbusting the jungle ( barbs can clean jungle for us
)
BTW there is any way of losing some turns of a WB to explore the south or the north?
And that is a good issue to be discussed: are we going to fogbust a lot? I would prefer to explore the south instead of fogbusting the jungle ( barbs can clean jungle for us
) BTW there is any way of losing some turns of a WB to explore the south or the north?
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