SGOTM 09 - Fifth Element

[BLubmuz]

We say "Don't cry over split milk".
Thank you !

I like the alphabet trade. Speed up the AI a bit, so they can help research and keep them happy.

Are you planning to run State Prop? If so, then you don't need wonders that reduce distance maint. (i.e. Div Right is not needed). Calendar is also a distraction. You can probably get MoM even if you trade for Cal.

No we must keep run Ambientalism for all the game:
- first we have so few Happy resources that we need badly the FP happiness,
- second we'll have some benefits from the NP (although overestimated by some team member).

@ Mesix
I already said those were minor mistakes.
The big one is the farm/WM, but probably it doesn't compromise the Pyramids.

The Alpha gift thing was never discussed. Give away a tech like Alpha at this stage of the game would deserve a discussion. Where was the need to do it so quickly?
It was just an half row on a Sweeta's post. Sincerely i even forgot that. Until a couple hours ago.
Does it will pay off in some way later? i doubt. I just hope it does not compromise something.

Calendar: HC has calendar resources. Thus he will research it. He's HC. Is not enough?
Have you seen his Capital?

 

[Sweetacshon]

We say "Don't cry over split milk".

at the translation that "squanders" the milk.. as if it's traded for magic beans or something.

Of course I was all for trading around, a tactic I use often when trying to keep garrisons small. To trade directly with Hammy is... ballsy, but I don't think there's need for melodramatically saying it will lose us the game. Sure, by giving the AI techs, they will be stronger, but that will also advantage us. You might imagine that the quick launch might be one where the human is only marginally ahead (in tech) of the trade willing AI, if a terribly stressful one. In any case, I don't see any way Ham can stand up to our planned paratrooper attack. I suppose the immediate risk is of spies. The first and easiest thing to do there is go 100% EP on Ham, and I'm guessing that was what was being referred to earlier, although I don't recall reading it.

Worker mis-steps are surely painful on quick, and adds to the argument for another one soon. All those roads will mitigate the movement issues a bit, surely Will the chop delay alter the timeframe of the mids?

It's well after midnight here, so no time to (responsibly ) check the save. Also thanks for the test update, gb!

 

[BLubmuz]

at the translation that "squanders" the milk.. as if it's traded for magic beans or something.

One of the synonims of squander is waste.

One of the synonims of split is divide. What do you use to divide milk, a knife?

Well, what you can expect from a guy living upside down? (hm... there must be something i'm missing here)

But as all the sayings often it goes over the literal translation.
Tell me, please: if a cup of milk falls on the floor is it correct to say "you've split the milk on the floor"? or dropped?
I've told you, i'm a ignorant stranger

As for the trades. I know, i'm greedy. Let's help those poor AIs grow, so they can better bother us.

 

[WastinTime]

Oops, typo.

Don't cry over SPILT milk. past tense of "to spill"

 

[unclethrill]

Got it ( in 12 not 24 hours)

 

[unclethrill]

NP, but that's only a minor problem.
Then, let's see Unclethrill's TS:
No strategic decisions to be taken.
Just good use of workers. and chop.
What about my suggestion to stop the forge for a worker in Athens?
What about my proposal for the espionage?

Suggestions for workers:
the one now roading the corn can stop and WM
one can finish the mine, then go road 1N of wheat
the other on the uranium can go N to chop right outside LP BFC

So you don't trust me to make any strategic decisions?
Leave it to Mesix to screw things up for all of us.

TS 09 goals:
research:Finish Paper, start Edu
Trades: Watch the alerts and every other turn F4 to see what they know
sign OB with Stalin: you'll need to give him Fishing and wait 1-2 turns
demands: show them the direction to Hell for any demand. But gently.
Cities: LP: finish forge, Pyramids. Keep always at least 1 sci at work, if possible an eng too.
Athens: worker, finish forge.
Blubz: CH - library (or archer if not already there)
Workers:a road to the wheat, then farm wheat>road.
Airship: back to Blubz, recon south, then back in LP. Scout the island and the barb borders.
Religion: we'll never adopt a religion.
Civics: we'll revolt to Representation once we'll get Pyramids (if we manage them).
World Map: needless to say, never trade it until we circumnavigate. After then, it can be a great source of money and even techs. But better avoid, unless we have great advantages.
Espionage: we'll use only passive. I think we can set to 1 for all, 2 for the AI we just meet. Then, we'll switch to 1 for the other continent and 2 for the AI(s) on ours.

My PPP is to:

Finish Paper, start Edu
Watch for trades
sign OB with Stalin giving him Fishing and waiting 1-2 turns
Gently not give in to any demands

As far as cities go:
LP will finish forge, Pyramid and will keep at least 1 sci at work, if possible an eng too.
Athens: worker, finish forge.
Blubz: CH - library- New palace

Workers:
Build a road to the wheat, then farm wheat>road.
the one now roading the corn can stop and WM
one can finish the mine, then go road 1N of wheat
the other on the uranium can go N to chop right outside LP BFC

Airship will go back to Blubz, recon south, then back in LP. Scout the island and the barb borders.

Religion:
Revolt to Judism to make Hammy happy 1 turn before MIds finished

Civics:
Revolt to Representation once we'll get Pyramids (if we manage them: I have an MBA. I can manage anything).

World Map: Never trade it unless we can get an early peace to a losing war.

Espionage:
I think we can set to 1 for all, 2 for the AI we just meet. Then, we'll switch to 1 for the other continent and 2 for the AI(s) on ours.


In 24 hours I will play my turn set and if there is no response then I will assume that everyone agrees with my non-strategic decisions.

 

[unclethrill]

I have the save open and am wondering what exactly I'm scouting in the south?

 

[Mesix]

Are we going to continue to REX? Should we build another settler?

We need to have six cities to get Oxford University.

I played a test game for a few turns. I was able to build the Pyramids by about turn 71 using the worker near the capital to chop 2 forest tiles to the south on the 3rd ring. Once we revolt to Representation we will be able to run planty of specialists thanks to the growth and food to support specialists (i.e. the corn farm that was so stupidly built). We should be able to use a GS wo bulb 11 turns off Education. We should discuss as a team which is better for long term strategy, the bulb or settling the GS in the capital.

 

[berserks01]

My opinion might not matter much since I have been silent, but I did not see farming the corn as a mistake. It will reduce settler/worker production by a couple of turns each at least, not to mention growing fast enough to have more citizens working more high-hammer tiles.

I think REXing and getting Oxford up quickly is the right path after Pyramids.

And stop spilling milk. If you don't want it, give it to me. My daughter and future son will make good use of it

 

[BLubmuz]

I have the save open and am wondering what exactly I'm scouting in the south?

The land. You can maybe find the Other AI (if any).

Nothing about your strategic skills. Simply this TS is a cruising one. Unless Hammu will DoW us, of course.

Seems a good plan like... familiar
No settlers in your TS. We'll talk about them by next one. Finish the Pyramids ASAP.

About the airship: if you got some move in your TS once scouted the island and the barb borders, bring it to inland Korean city (wonsan perhaps?)

Good luck.

Are we going to continue to REX? Should we build another settler? In next TS, probably.
We need to have six cities to get Oxford University. And six universities. Possibly Stone.

(...) the corn farm that was so stupidly built Not stupidly, too soon.
We should be able to use a GS wo bulb 11 turns off Education. We should discuss as a team which is better for long term strategy, the bulb or settling the GS in the capital.

LB Edu? aftrer you stressed me for 2 pages of posts to convince me to settle GSs? And you even convinced me. Now we'll play the same game at inverted parts?

 

[Mesix]

I'm all for settling the GS too. I was just presenting the options. Someone made a comment that 11 turns faster to Paratroopers will make a big impact and I thought it may be worth discussion. Once we have Astronomy and build all of the science buildings, each GS that is settled will be producing the research from a LB about every 30 turns. Settling him will give us 4x the research over time if we are patient.

I already scouted from the inland Korean city. That is how I met Stalin. A good strategy to circumnavigate is to get OB with Stalin and then trade maps with Korea. We should be able to see Stalin's cities with Korean maps. If we scout from our capital to the east with the Airship and then rebase it to the westmost city of Stalin's empire and scout west of it, we just may proove that the world is round.

 

[unclethrill]

Finish the Pyramids ASAP.

So instead of having the worker that is roading corn build the WM should he move to chop Mids and have the one on the Uran. move to build WM?

 

[Mesix]

Maybe have both of them chop forests to get it done faster.

 

[greatbeyond]

I've been testing and hope to have some more refined ideas tomorrow.
AS for LBing Edu see my post http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8030325&postcount=447

 

[BLubmuz]

So instead of having the worker that is roading corn build the WM should he move to chop Mids and have the one on the Uran. move to build WM?

No. Stop him as you open the playing session. Also stop one of the 2 on uranium. The one on the corn will windmill directly: once the WM is completed you'll have the chop done and +1H from it than from a FP otherwise you lose a move since there're no roads. The one on the Ur. will go in one of the forests, losing some move (no roads) and chops.

I've been testing and hope to have some more refined ideas tomorrow.
AS for LBing Edu see my post http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8030325&postcount=447

First, we must hope to have a GS. But as i already said, have Edu 10 turns earlier does NOT equals to have Paras 10 turns earlier. Even putting aside the long term benefits of a settled GS, let's think to the mid term:
1) a settled GS will speed the GP/Philo/Lib research since we'll suffer after the REX. In fact (but i can give you accurate numbers) we have rifling roughly in the same turn with a settled GS. From then on the benefits are a pure gain.
2) our cities will not be developed enough to build Paras: they cost 107H, more than most buildings.

But in my last test i LB some 10 turns of Edu and saved before do it, to have the chance to discuss this with numbers.
I'll start from that save and tell you when i'll arrive to Rifling settling the GS instead. It will be enough compare the 2 autologs.

Think at this: LP is completely busy building settlers and workers, probably a galley. Any building have to be delayed for this, with the exception of the airport (as i explained here) and maybe a LH.
I know every building is useful in LP: market, uni. But we delayed too much the REX to build Pyramids.

 

[BLubmuz]

Revolt to Representation once we'll get Pyramids (if we manage them: I have an MBA. I can manage anything).

Out of topic it seems we're on the same boat: before starting my consulting activity (with not much luck) i was the financial controller in a couple mid-size companies. All the budget activities, reports, data warehouse and so on. Even HR in one for some unknown reason, but with good results.
Does Mesix do the same job? keep him under the lens

 

[Mesix]

We are both engineers (which is to say that we are professional Civ IV players most of the time). Unclethrill just finished an MBA a few months ago, I am hoping to be accepted to a Business School in the fall. We did our graduate work in opposite order. I am finishing a technical Masters (Aeronautical Science) first and he is starting a technical Masters (Computer Science) in the fall.

 

[BLubmuz]

hm, not me. My studies were all in the business side.
As you probably know in Italy the schools and the degrees are a bit different from Germany and US.
But it's long time i was in a school, if i don't count some specialization course followed while working.

Back on topic:
Uncle, if Stalin doesn't opens his borders with fishing, give him Alpha, then wait.

Since we gave it to all the AIs why not to that poor guy?

p.s. don't spill the milk.

Alert​

I just discovered this:
if you left-click on a member name or double-click on his avatar, you'll arrive to his profile page.
if you choose "see all statistics" (upper right), then "see all the posts by X" you can see all his posts in ANY thread.
You'll see only the first rows, but can be enough to understand what a team is doing.

Thus:
1) be care on what you post on the first rows
2) do you think is better inform AlanH about this?

 

[Sweetacshon]

Masters everywhere, but none in CiV.. yet (a laurel, I mean). I also finished a masters in finance last year. Of course, it's a useless degree in this climate

Plan is fine, I was going to mention that I thought fishing wouldn't be worth enough to satisfy Stalin, but Blubz caught it already.

 

[Mesix]

We are all a bunch of old guys playing games to act like kids...huh?