SGOTM 09 - Fifth Element

BLubmuz · May 18, 2009

I've thought you was busy in the weekend, but i can't be sure.
Now you put it as a rule, so i'll consider it in the roster.

Unclethrill is up, you're next. I'll swap the roster accordingly.

To answer to UT: I know the mechanics of the AP. And all the religion thing. I can assure i never experinced happiness problems in my tests. In the last attempt i revolted to OR for missionaries, thus i know it's longer than you think.

Can we put it in this way?
- in our next GAge we'll revolt to OR to build some missionaries in the very first turn.
- then we'll switch to FR in the last turn (9th) to enjoy the benefits of multiple religions.

Please remember that FR works well even with only one religion. You have no happiness from any religion if you don't convert to religions, only culture.
In any case we can revolt also to the AP religion (if we own it) in the last turn, just to be sure about the temples.

OK, better go ahead with the PPP and discuss this right before the GAge.

It's OK theo (2 turns) then Nationalism?

Simon_c · May 18, 2009

Just a quick note, I'm away next week and I've no idea what the connectivity is like where I'm staying, or what my time will be like. So, if I come up after Wed evening (i.e. I can play on Thursday evening, but would need time to discuss the ppp before hand) then swap me. I will probably be able to post on Saturday with an idea of what my connectivity is. If you don't hear from me, it's non-existent.

BLubmuz · May 18, 2009

You can be up next week.
So, if we manage to discuss Uncle's PPP and he can play giving you time to post a PPP and play before Friday, maybe Sweeta can swap with you.

the roster can be like this:

Code:

Unclethrill - tuesday/wedn
Simon_c     - Thurs/Fri
Greatbeyod  - weekend
Sweeta      - monday/tuesday

let me know.

We're seriously risking to not complete the game on time at this pace.

Simon_c · May 18, 2009

We're seriously risking to not complete the game on time at this pace.

I think we need to instigate an autoskip if there's not a PPP posted within 24hr. Ideally shorter.
I'm happy for a direct email if when the person before me has posted their done so we can try to minimize down time.

If we can do that, and still look like we're going to miss, then we need to reduce the discussion time too.
BLubmuz has my home and work emails already, I'm happy to send them to everyone here.

I should be OK with that roster

Mesix · May 18, 2009

Hey Unclethrill...we are waiting on your PPP.

unclethrill · May 18, 2009

BLubmuz said:
TS 14 goals:
research: Lib for Rifling, Theo, Nationalism ???
Trades: Watch the alerts and every other turn F4 to see what they know
demands: show them the direction to Hell for any demand. But gently. If Shaka ask some reasonable item, give him (i forgot to mention in my TS report, i asked for WM and i gave him)
Cities:
LaunchPad: Keep always at least 3Sci + 1Eng at work - Market in 1, worker, worker, granary, LH, barracks, Xbows.
GPersons: If GS, settle. If GSpy, keep for a GA. If a GE, keep him at sleep: he's Mister Mining Inc.
Workers: chop everything right out LP BFC.
Airship: the map is known. We'll use it to recon in wartime. Do what you want.
Religion: we'll never adopt a religion.
Civics: we'll revolt to FR in our GAge after Lib, probably.
Espionage: Now the other continent's AI are all @1, Joao @3, Hammu to 1

Okay:

Research: Finish Lib and Take rifling. That will be 4 of my turns. I will then start Theo. Nationalism is Simon's decision.

Trades: I will look for trades but what are we looking for in trade? I don't want to be accused of a too lopsided trade. Right now Wang Chung is the only one willing to trade us anything and he wants too much for Aesthetics ( Civil Service and Mono).

Demands: I will be prudent with demand requests. Though we can't really afford to make Joao or Hammu mad quite yet.

Cities:
LP Finish market (1), 2 workers (2), We already have Granary and LH (0), Barracks (1), Do we build a couple Paras or Xbow? I think 1 Xbow for each city then Paras

Athens: Finish univ (2), then CH (6)

Blubz: Finish Gran (1), Barracks (2), xbow (3), Market (6)

NY: Finish Granary (4), LH (8)

Pindus : Finish CH(4), Gran (6)

Corinth: Switch to Fishing Boat (10) from forge

Sparta: Finish Gran (3), LH (10)

Panama: Finish gran (10)

No GP should pop on this TS. Should pop on turn 106 by my calculations.

Use workers to finish the one chop left outside LP. Then Hook up cows and wine in Pindus and Iron in sparta, then start chopping jungles in Panama.

Religion: Send Confused Missionary in Athens to New York.

Civics: No change

Espionage: No change

Edit: Sorry for the 8 hour delay on the PPP. I had to get some sleep since Mesix the Cripple (AKA Timmy or is it Jimmy now) refuses to get off his butt at work now just cause he broke his ankle.

unclethrill · May 18, 2009

I can play in 8 hours or 25. Let me know which is preferred.

Mesix · May 18, 2009

unclethrill said:
Sorry for the 8 hour delay on the PPP. I had to get some sleep since Mesix the Cripple (AKA Timmy or is it Jimmy now) refuses to get off his butt at work now just cause he broke his ankle.

Such hard work sitting there with your black & blue balls while Santee answers the phone for you. Watch yourself...I smell a...

CRIPPLE FIGHT!

greatbeyond · May 18, 2009

The PPP looks mostly OK.

Builds:
If we haven't started the XBs by the time we get Paras, build them instead.

add the below (from my previous post) to trades:

"Trades
Mono to HC for 190G
Poly to Stalin for 40G
Poly to Joao for 30G

This gives us money to keep our tech rate a little higher. Hopefully someone will offer us Engineering during the next TS as it is opens up a lot of the research path"

None of these are critical techs we need and the cash is a higher priority. Let's get our Tech rate up.

Is the "Cripple fight" going to be a pay-per-view event or can we get free internet streaming live?

:clap:

BLubmuz · May 18, 2009

unclethrill said:
I can play in 8 hours or 25. Let me know which is preferred.

Better 8, so we'll have longer time to analyze your save.
There seem to be general consensus on the research, since no one commented negatively.

unclethrill said:
Okay: some adjustement here and there

Research: Finish Lib and Take rifling. That will be 4 of my turns. I will then start Theo. Nationalism is Simon's decision. I think you'll manage to start it.

Trades: I will look for trades but what are we looking for in trade? I don't want to be accused of a too lopsided trade. Right now Wang Chung is the only one willing to trade us anything and he wants too much for Aesthetics ( Civil Service and Mono). Agreed, too much. Let's be patient.

Demands: I will be prudent with demand requests. Though we can't really afford to make Joao or Hammu mad quite yet.

Cities:
LP Finish market (1), 2 workers (2), We already have Granary and LH (0) i'm growing old, Barracks (1), Do we build a couple Paras or Xbow? I think 1 Xbow for each city then Paras correct! and one more to be safe, then the HS (but i guess it will be on Simon's TS)

Athens: Finish univ (2), then CH (6) i prefere barracks after the Uni, then Paras
Blubz: Finish Gran (1), Barracks (2), xbow (3), Market (6) finish Gran, airport - it's of grat strategic importance!!! - then barracks > Paras

NY: Finish Granary (4), LH (8) or forge? or a worker?
Pindus : Finish CH(4), Gran (6) OK

Corinth: Switch to Fishing Boat (10) from forge OK

Sparta: Finish Gran (3), LH (10) or a forge?

Panama: Finish gran (10) OK

No GP should pop on this TS. Should pop on turn 106 by my calculations.

Use workers to finish the one chop left outside LP. Then Hook up cows and wine in Pindus and Iron in sparta, then start chopping jungles in Panama.
There're also forests in the ice right N of Athens' BFC (3, IIRC) to chop, to speed some paras

Religion: Send Confused Missionary in Athens to New York. I forgot it

Civics: No change Espionage: No change right

Edit: Sorry for the 8 hour delay on the PPP. I had to get some sleep since Mesix the Cripple (AKA Timmy or is it Jimmy now) refuses to get off his butt at work now just cause he broke his ankle.

NP, you didn't know you was up.

greatbeyond said:
The PPP looks mostly OK.

Builds:
If we haven't started the XBs by the time we get Paras, build them instead.
Paras will have to wait: i consider strategical the HS: 50% reduced worker time means you can build a road in 1 turn, mine in 2, farm in 3!!! Our land is pitifully undeveloped
add the below (from my previous post) to trades:

"Trades
Mono to HC for 190G
Poly to Stalin for 40G
Poly to Joao for 30G
Good catches!
This gives us money to keep our tech rate a little higher. Hopefully someone will offer us Engineering during the next TS as it is opens up a lot of the research path" ()...

Simon_c · May 18, 2009

I think slotting forges in after the granaries or workboats makes sense. it pays for itself eventually.

I dont' have the save open, Can we build paras at the other cities while building the HS at LP ?
(he's got me using these daft abbreviations now :crazyeye:

)

unclethrill · May 18, 2009

My TS is completed.

Here is the file

900AD_01

Trades:

Only 90 from HC for mono.
40 for poly from stalin
30 for poly from Joao

Here is my auto log.

Spoiler :

Here is my other log:

Spoiler :

Everything went as planned. I finished 2 workers and 1 xbow in LP. I sent 1 worker south for improvements and the other along with the 3 other near LP north to chop para. New York became confused. I also bombed a barb galley once and then found 2 of Shaka's cities in Africa after I got OB.

I took Rifling with Lib and completed Theo. The next tech needs to be chosen to start the next TS. I did not move or promote the 1 xbow that was built since neither was discussed with the team. I fortified the Great spy that finally made it back to LP.

All in all it was an uneventful TS and I followed the PPP precisely.

Mesix · May 18, 2009

After looking at the save, it is clear that we need to salvage our economy. Getting courthouses in the outlaying cities should be a priority. We could preceed courthouses with forges which (as Simon C points out) will pay for themselves eventually. We also need to get workers out to develop tiles around our newest cities.

In LP and Athens, we should crank out paratroopers to start our crusade against Hammy. LP can crank out a paratrooper every 3-4 turns. If we get 6-7 paratroopers we should be able to rage on Hammy.

Tech wise...I think we should go for Engineering > Chemistry > Biology. Devine Right may seem attractive for Versailes, but we really don't have any cities with enough production in an appropriate place to build it just yet.

I checked the stats screen for the top 5 cities and wonders. None of the Holy Shrines have been built by the AI yet. We have the ability to pop a GP from Athens if we run 1-2 priest specialists. We need to build a temple to accomplish this though. This would allow us to get a Shrine in either Athens or Panama City which could eventually be our Wall Street city.

unclethrill · May 18, 2009

I agree that we need to do something about the economy. The buildings we finished took us from -10 at 30% to -3 at 40% but we really do need to recover some to afford Hammy's cities.

Simon_c · May 19, 2009

I'm going to assume I'm up, although BLubmuz didn't update the roster on page 1

preparing the PPP now

Simon_c · May 19, 2009

BLubmuz hasn't commented on the economy yet, but I can see a few options

* go economy, pop the GM and swap to free Market. so we increase out trade routes. We need to get guilds/banking first though.
* Hire some merchants everywhere.
* Decide on a religion to spread. Panama has some good cottage areas to the south, so could be the Wall St city. It would take some luck to get the GProf though. Maybe we can muddle through until we take Hammy/Joao when they have built a shrine...
EDIT:
But, that will mean we'll probably not be spreading the correct religion during the Golden Age as we won't know which relegion has the shrine. (Unless they build it in the next 17 turns of course.)

Do we *really* want to build the HS ? It's obsoleted by steam power, which we need to get factories and can research as soon as we have Eng. I don't think we can use it for long enough to make it worth while.

TS 15 goals:
research: Nationalism for the Taj. I'm OK with that. Everybody else OK ?

Trades: Wang will give us Engineering, compass, world map and 30 :gold:

for Monoetheism, Civil Service and Philosophy. 1720-1430. Not too bad. If we add Metal casting in, we can pick up Feudalism instead of compass, or get compass and aesthetics. Capac is wanting much to higher a price for his techs.

demands: I guess older techs, say < 400 :beakers: is OK to give away, otherwise people can sod off. Unless it's Joao with a stack on our borders.

Cities:
LaunchPad: Keep always at least 3Sci + 1Eng at work - Parax3 for this turnset I think. Then Taj next. Alternative is the HS, but see above for why I think that's a bad idea.
Athens: Para (3t) Para (9)
Bulbzville: Airport (2) Baracks(2) Para (6)
Pindus: Granary (2), Forge (9),
Spata: Lighthouse(3) Courthouse(12)
Panama City: Granary(3), Courthouse(40) :eek:

NewYork: Lighthouse(4) Forge(12). I propose a workshop or watermill 1E . Are we going to preserve all the forests round here, or chop them ?
Corinth: forge (37) :eek:

I think we need a mine in the hills

Humm. No unis in the list here, and we need 3 more. any ideas where/when ?

Hummm. Bulbville was going to be the NP city wasn't it ? But, New York has more forests. Have we chopped some or something ?

GPersons: If GS, settle. If GSpy, keep for a GA. If a GE, keep him at sleep: half the SoL.

Workers: We have 8, and could do with more. I want one in NY, and one in Corinth area to improve those. I want at least 2, probably 4 down to Panama area to cut down that jungle. I guess the other two can continue the irrigation chain planned for Athens on my last TS.

Airship: I'll recon Africa with it.

Religion: Need to discuss in relation to the economy.

Civics: FR at the end of Taj GA, maybe OR at the start.

Espionage: Do we drop Joao back to 1 now he's equaled up to the others ?

Sweetacshon · May 19, 2009

Simon_c said:
Do we *really* want to build the HS ? It's obsoleted by steam power, which we need to get factories and can research as soon as we have Eng. I don't think we can use it for long enough to make it worth while. I don';t, and I've got to say I didn't really want theo either, but I'm in no position right now to argue.

TS 15 goals:
research: Nationalism for the Taj. I'm OK with that. Everybody else OK ? Yep.

Trades: Wang will give us Engineering, compass, world map and 30 for Monoetheism, Civil Service and Philosophy. 1720-1430. Not too bad. If we add Metal casting in, we can pick up Feudalism instead of compass, or get compass and aesthetics. Capac is wanting much to higher a price for his techs. Eng and compass are 2 techs we need on our way to the all important bio and astro. Let's get them.

demands: I guess older techs, say < 400 :beakers: is OK to give away, otherwise people can sod off. Unless it's Joao with a stack on our borders. Of course, only give away if we don't already have +4 for good trades.

Cities:
LaunchPad: Keep always at least 3Sci + 1Eng at work - Parax3 for this turnset I think. Then Taj next. Alternative is the HS, but see above for why I think that's a bad idea.
Athens: Para (3t) Para (9)
Bulbzville: Airport (2) Baracks(2) Para (6)
Pindus: Granary (2), Forge (9),
Spata: Lighthouse(3) Courthouse(12)
Panama City: Granary(3), Courthouse(40)
NewYork: Lighthouse(4) Forge(12). I propose a workshop or watermill 1E . Are we going to preserve all the forests round here, or chop them ?
Corinth: forge (37) I think we need a mine in the hills

Humm. No unis in the list here, and we need 3 more. any ideas where/when ? This is the trouble with wonderhogging and the late rex. Where do we have them already? LP, Blubz, Athens? Let's get them in asap, as Oxford is huge Are there any forests we can chop into them?

Hummm. Bulbville was going to be the NP city wasn't it ? But, New York has more forests. Have we chopped some or something ? I thought it was NY.. can the next TP signpost the map so we don't make any worker mistakes... like building roads on adjacent non forested tiles.

Workers: We have 8, and could do with more. I want one in NY, and one in Corinth area to improve those. I want at least 2, probably 4 down to Panama area to cut down that jungle. I guess the other two can continue the irrigation chain planned for Athens on my last TS. Sounds ok... can't tell without looking.

Airship: I'll recon Africa with it. Is it worth building another for the invasion?

I've resigned myself to reinstalling... when I get over the depression of having to do so.

BLubmuz · May 19, 2009

Hey, it was deep night when UT posted his report

Uneventful but well executed (at least until i can see the save).
Perhaps your Deity EQM forces you to play well to keep high your reputation?

Economy is not a big problem, but we surely need CHs in every city, even more tan libraries/univ. The war will give us some huge amount of cash.

Some sparse comments:

Panama will never have the production to build expensive Wall Street.
If we'll use the GProphet for a Shrine it will be the Buddist or the Jews one. But i think a shrine will be close to nothing by the time.

Don't dare to even think to build the Taj in LP :mad:

it's already polluted by the GWall.
Taj will be built in NYC or in Sparta. Say the first of this cities with a forge.

Trades: we don't care (much) the prices for the techs we need. If HC has Feud, give him something, not paper or Edu.

HS: Steam will not arrive too soon. We must prioritize Democracy (for the SoL) and Bio (for the NP). Even if obsolete, it generates 2 GE points/t

We'll never build a mine, unless over a resource!
Windmills, be environmentalist

I need to open the save to better comment. When do you think to play?

Simon_c · May 19, 2009

I need to open the save to better comment. When do you think to play?

I can play tonight, or tomorrow night as soon as the comments are in. I think it's still simple enough to get it done in an hour.
If I'm playing tomorrow night, I'll post a revised PPP tonight or tomorrow AM taking into account all comments.

HS: Steam will not arrive too soon. We must prioritize Democracy (for the SoL) and Bio (for the NP). Even if obsolete, it generates 2 GE points/t

Do we want a vote on the HS ?
My gut feeling is it's not worth it, not when we need Unis, courthouses and paras needed. But, I'm happy to go down that route if that's the consensus.

BLubmuz · May 19, 2009

I'm writing this with the save open.
The HS in LP needs 7 turns. At the cost of 2 Paras we'll have our workers 50% faster.
We desperately need to improve our land. This will help economy and production.
In addition, having researched Theo was useless, or almost.

We have 2 Xbows ready to be airlifted in LP. The first will go in Corinth, the 2nd (next turn) in NYC.

I've seen we have a para due in 3 in Athens. He will jump to LP, waiting for the 2nd from Athens, then they will jump together in the island. Use the airship to clear the path for them.

After the HS, LP will build another Xbow, to keep in standby. Then Paras, paras, more paras.
Forge after LH in NYC and Sparta
Forge after granary in Pindus.
Courthose after granary in Panama.
Barracks after Airport in Blubz, then Paras and more Paras.

I have to force myself to propose this, but it's huge:
HC gives us Feud+his WM+110g. for Theo+Paper.
Wang gives us Aesthetics, Engineering, Compass and some gold for CS, MC and Philo.
But we have another option: give him Mono instead of MC, and he wants 155 gold.
Once Optics will be on the table (and he's almost friendly with us, so he will trade anything) we can offer MC + Theo for it and probably we can have some of our money back.

To you the choice, i'm maybe, slightly in favor of the gamble spending money, say 51%.

Theo is useful for trades, anyway. But i strongly want the HS. Right now. Immediately.
No more synonims (i exausted all the ones i know), i hope it's clear.

Do you agree that some cheap tech will help our trades?

Last thing: fingers crossed, after Simon will hit enter a new GPerson will pop in LP.
Usual rule, i think, but with a variation: If a GE he will sleep until he can help with the SoL.

SGOTM 09 - Fifth Element

HoF Quattromaster

Prince

HoF Quattromaster

Prince

The Allfather

Why am I up right now?

Why am I up right now?

The Allfather

King

HoF Quattromaster

Prince

Why am I up right now?

The Allfather

Why am I up right now?

Prince

Prince

In the foetal position

HoF Quattromaster

Prince

HoF Quattromaster

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