SGOTM 09 - Fifth Element

greatbeyond · May 20, 2009

"AAAaaaaaarrrrgh!!!
Notre Dame without stone?

argh!"

It's nice to see I can still get a discussion going! I know it takes longer without Stone but If we are going to capture a city with Stone soon, let's plan for it.

Play away.........

Simon_c · May 20, 2009

OK. Here's my rambling turn log.

900AD turn 105:
Worker 3 to new your to build watermill

Worker 5 from the frozen north to continue to create wooden paras.
Worker 4 heads down to Parama to bulid a windmill
Worker 8 moves to 1W of Pindus to start on the FPs

New york and Corinth have no local troops. air lift one xbow to NewYork. Don't want a barb landing there !

T106
Enemy Infiltrators have destroyed our granary in LP !!

And Stalin wants 190 of our gold. I tell Stalin to take a hike. He's not out our Friend list, and we need that money for other trades.

Another great Spy in LP !!! :cry:

I take a executive decision to put the granary rebuild ahead of the HS. Hope that's OK

Worker 2 and 5 head down to Pindus and Corinth

T107
A deal with Hamu is still not there, and the deal with Wang got about 50 :gold:

more expensive, so I do the deal with HC and wang now.

HC: Feudalism for Paper + 185 :gold:

And now Wang doesn't want to do the deal for less than mono, CS, philo and MC. Despite checking just before dealing with HC and all he would settle for gold:50: instead of MC.

Grrr.

So, I've sold out world map to HC for 85 of our gold, .
Then do a deal with Wang.
Aesthetics, engineering, and compass for Mono, CS, Philo, the world map, and 70 gold. It gets us to +4 with wang

Worker 7 heads down to finish the irrigation for Athens.

T108:
HC asks for theo for Horseback Riding and 60 :gold:

I sadly decline.
Sparta starts a Courthouse
NewYork Forge,
Panama: Courthouse

And Hammurabi has finished the AP. And we get the chance to vote for him, or, er, him.

T109:
Bulbz starts on it's Paras.
Hammu won the AP vote. What a surprise.
Worker 6 heads to Panama to help the windmill. (two there now)

I sell MC to Joao for 70 :gold:

Now the AP has gone, I can sell
Theo to Wang for Literature and 40

HC still wants too high a price for Optics though.

T109

Joao popped a GProfit, so we may get a shrine from him later.

T110
Yep, Joao compleated the whatever it is.
There's barbs in the pacific too. Corinth's nets may not last long.

T112.
Scouted the island again, there's a worker building a pasture, so if we wait 2 turns, it will be finished

save

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm9/Fifth_Element_SG009_AD1040_01.CivBeyondSwordSave

turn log

Spoiler :

autolog

Spoiler :

Hope there was no :smoke:

there....

BLubmuz · May 20, 2009

I've been very late, so i'm goin' sleep.
Seems good, for what you could have done.
Pity for the GSpy, we knew the risk of gene pollution.
Oh well, we'll settle the GM in the Wall Street city.
And we can use the GProphet for a GAge.
Or build the Jews Shrine and use the GM for the GAge. We'll see.

We can also consider to start a GAge after next TS.
Need to see the save for give an opinion.

What i've told you? Those guys are planting spies like mad. Another good reason to destroy them.

Well, i'll see the save and update the roster tomorrow.

Sweetacshon · May 20, 2009

A spy! Oh you son of a... :gripe:

Well, we could settle 1 to ward off further granary attacks - another :gripe:

- and the 3 :science:

from rep.

TS seems well played, Simon. :thumbsup:

@Blubz: Yep, v1 and v2 work fine, but BtS screwy. I'll reinstall today, I after I complete this job application. :whipped:

I'm applying to be a public servant in the Dept of Defence... what's all that about? :crazyeye:

xpost Where are all these spare GMen you are referring to, Blubz??

Sweetacshon · May 20, 2009

greatbeyond said:
"AAAaaaaaarrrrgh!!!
Notre Dame without stone?

argh!"

It's nice to see I can still get a discussion going! I know it takes longer without Stone but If we are going to capture a city with Stone soon, let's plan for it.

Play away.........

That's hilarious, GB.

BTW, I don't want any barracks/troops from Pindus not (only) because of Oxford, but because with the NWs it has to build, it won't produce all that many paras. Why not just forgo units from here and get onto the buildings. Also, our current lack of stone is no reason not to want Oxford asap, imo. I can't believe that in a SR game with so much teching to do, everyone seems so blase about it.

Simon_c · May 21, 2009

Here's some more things I think we needed to discuss.

Unis: Still need three more. 1 in pindus. If oxford is for after the war there's
probably not a rush to decide where the other two unis are but I think we should plan their locations. I expect building them in a newly captured city will be too slow

Joao hasn't got his stone hooked up. Not even a city close to it. We should have a settler planned to grab that site incase he doesn't when we get there.

War Plan: Who's first, and how many paras, where to etc.
The two are ready to jump to the island.

Wonders: Where to build the Taj.
Joao has the budist shrine built in Lisbon. Notre Dame is there too. Damn decent of him if you ask me.

Do you know what else we may be able to do ?Can Paras jump from forts ?
If so, we can build a fort at the end of greenland, and then jump into England and then walk over the channel and then walk to Spain. We can then take Zhou from the barbs.
This can then give us an airbase in europe. We can use this for several things.
* Spread missionaries to split the rest of the world into relegions factions.
* spread spies to keep an eye on them all. Bread resources etc.
* Send some troops to tie other AIs up if we need to
* Send military aid it we want to keep wars going.

Just an idea... They could all be a distraction.

BLubmuz · May 21, 2009

I got the save open.
The TS seems well played, just some minor adjustement.
Things to do before anything in next TS:

1) airlift the Xbow in Corinth
2) fire all the specialists in all cities (but LP, of course) and work low/no food tiles, even if unimproved
3) build a FP in the GLForest 2N1W of Panama: both cities will benefit from this and the happy will raise for both. Next turn you'll move the worker now S of Panama in that forest, and the one SE of Pindus in the forest N of Sparta. Road both, then join them to FP the GLF in 2
4) there's this option:

I think we must catch it: we can run 40% with +3gpt and soon we'll recover with cities conquered.
5) the HS is due in 1t: after it LP will start a Para, but after 2 turns it switch to a WB for the whales. Time to arrive and Kassite will go out of revolt and pop borders. And LP will max the benefits from the overflow.

More:
- The Taj will go in NYC. The forge can be due in 5t if working the winery and hammer tiles
- also Pindus can work more hammer tiles. As i said it must contribute to the war effort. We can build Xbows there, to send to Blubz and then airlift in safe cities for MP duties.
- In fact, we'll keep Xbows in all the former Babylonian cities, to free the Paras for Portugal

After we'll take Nippur, this will be done:

We also need a road to move Paras after the babylonyan war along all the coastal rockies

No more for now, just this: HC has nationalism, but he has no marble so probably we can safely build the Taj. But not let the grass grow under our feets.
It's great that Joao has the Mahabody and ND. This not only will save a lot of discussion but it will be a great benefit for the end game.
I think next TS will go to build Paras, the fireworks will begin in Sweeta's one.

BLubmuz · May 21, 2009

turn 0, no war yet:

- The 2 Paras from Corinth will jump on the watermill.
- The 4 from Blubz, cleared by the airship will jump E of the river and move in the forest W (can't remember if they can jump directly in the forest W)
In case there're babylonian units there, they can move on the forest E of Nippur and the first attack will be performed by the ones from the watermill.
- The 4 E of Opis will sneak attack it and hopefully take it. If so, the ones already in the city can jump to Nippur, and the first attackers can keep the city and heal.

Then we must concentrate on Babylon
Depending by the forces there, we can also threat Akkad in the meantime.
After Akkad, Dur, then Borsippa, finally Sippar.

We must have Xbows ready for MP duties: The paras can then be freed and arrive to Nippur.
From there they'll jump in Corinth, skip. Jump along the road to Sparta, where they heal.
In the meantime we'll have more and airlift them to Panama.
Jump them to Leiria after the second fireworks will open.

Remember, always move them in pairs, at least. They will be injured, but no one dares to attack a pair.
One is possible and even if the first attacker will die, the second can win.
The road is important: we must build it ASAP, to immediately connect the new cities. No coastal, no connection.

Simon_c · May 21, 2009

Are we sure we want the farms around Pindus ?
I was figuring we would want to let the forests grow in the empty spaces, hence what I was saying about re-routing the road out of the BFC

BLubmuz · May 21, 2009

Simon_c said:
Are we sure we want the farms around Pindus ?
I was figuring we would want to let the forests grow in the empty spaces, hence what I was saying about re-routing the road out of the BFC

Sure i'm sure

If we manage to spread the forest 1N of cows, Pindus will have 9 FPs in BFC.
If we are so lucky to spread some in the GL SE, even more.
But it needs also to grow. Without farms it doesn't have great food, only the non irrigated rice and the plains cows. Better renounce to a free specialist (not sure, BTW) and have the city over size 15. Windmill on the hill. This city will have 10 free specialists, counting the one from SoL and hoping in a forest grow 1N of cows. A couple more not free can be nice too, if it can grow.
It must also be carefully watched, 'cause the stupid city governor always puts a spy at work.

BLubmuz · May 21, 2009

OK. Since a meeting i has today is shifted to next week, i can intensively test our game instead to gain some few hundreds . Well, they're only postponed.

1) Paras for kassite: jump immediately, then move in the forest right N of the city. This way you can capture the worker next turn.
Next turn you capture the worker with the first para, and do the same (jump>move forest N city) with the second.
Don't promote them, just attack with both.
Next turn you'll take the city and airlift the Xbow you'll have built in LP. Kassite will revolt for 4 turns, see the size. Start granary and build roads until it goes out of revolt.
LP will build the Whaling Boat after the para is completed (and after the Xbow).
Then the paras can jump to LP, then to Athens. Keep 4 there, they'll go for Opis.
Do not promote them, they're plenty of time to heal.

2) Launch Pad: Stop working the inner lake, work a FP. Once at size 15, put another Sci at work.

3) research: Astro after Nationalism. Then the path to Economics, then to Democracy.
I'm sorry for the NP, but if we want to win the Economics race and build the SoL ASAP, this is the way to go. Bio must wait. In the end, are 9 free specialists opposed to 25.
BTW with astro we'll can trade for luxuries and raise the research slider by 1 step, due to the income from TRoutes.
BTW 2 there's also a chance to trade for chem at that point in the game.

In my tests i've seen HC go this route, and he's a damn good techer/wonder builder.
For some reason he seems not interested to build the Taj. We can start it right after the forge in NYC, but in case delay it at 1 turn to completion. It would be nice to start the GAge when Babylon (the city) goes out of revolt. But this will be seen by the player at that moment.
Also, no way to see Guilds on the table. Only HC has it.
Who knows what Wang is researching? pity we can't tell him.

War:
We can start in turn 126, if my math is correct.
Probably Joao will DoW too: we must decide if let him pass (he can disturb) or close borders.
One more reason to go for Astro first.

Team management.
I shortened the TSs, due to:
- the lot of events which can occur
- a growing empire means a lot of management, and everything must be accurately done, so more time to play (please see a thread of Murky's of any past game).
- the approaching of a planned war
- last but not least: keep for myself the central part of the war

- Our new ability to plan our no-play days.

Warning!
i noticed a couple workers with long "go to" please stop them before hitting enter, they're losing turns.

Simon :nono:

no go to actions, please see team rules :old:

. Yellow card

Simon_c · May 21, 2009

BLubmuz said:
Warning!
i noticed a couple workers with long "go to" please stop them before hitting enter, they're losing turns.

Simon no go to actions, please see team rules . Yellow card

Doh !!
You're right.
My only defence is that they are going to the areas I said they would go to in my PPP. But yes, no gotos. !

Mesix · May 21, 2009

Are we planning to take the barbarian city in Greenland on the next TS? We can use the 2 paratroopers in LP to take that city, and then drop them back onto the mainland to meet up with the rest of the force to take Hammy.

BLubmuz · May 21, 2009

Mesix said:
Are we planning to take the barbarian city in Greenland on the next TS? We can use the 2 paratroopers in LP to take that city, and then drop them back onto the mainland to meet up with the rest of the force to take Hammy.

Mesix, #691 on this same page.
Please read the posts.
Even if older then an hour you can have missed them :gripe:

Mesix · May 21, 2009

You know I read that...then the others...then loaded the save and looked at it...and I didn't connect Kassite with Greenland until you mentioned it.

Sweetacshon · May 21, 2009

So who's up? It's GB, right?? I've got another busy weekend, and it's starting earlier than usual... in about 2 hours actually.

The good news is, I completed my application, and reinstalled BtS (thankfully just BtS) and am good to go again on Monday. Blubz war plan looks pretty good. I have 2 concerns in general:
1. We are sort of continuing to slip flop on tech choices. Yes SoL is a great wonder, etc, but there's always pros and cons to everything. I'm happy enough to do those techs now IF we do bio next. I don't really want to hear "well we're so close to mining inc, let's go for that now" etc. Bio is not just great for the NP and the fact that we already have the FPs around, but huge because we are relatively food poor.
2. Pindus :deadhorse:

- I strongly recommend this doesn't work on the war effort, bet gets onto its infra needs.

Simon_c · May 22, 2009

I too am getting concerned that there seems to be a 1-2 day stall between people starting to prepare for their turn.

Can we pass direct emails onto Bulbz and lay down a rule that there must be some kind of "got it, preparing a plan" kind of message within 24hr of the previous turnset being posted ?

Onto the game.
1) I agree with the war plan. Looks like it will work. What kind of losses can the plan cope with and still work ?
2) Pindus: I'm in two minds here. It still needs a library, a uni, the NE and the NP. Even if we build the NP first before the NE, that's still at least 12 turns to build the library and uni (IIRC, no save open in front of me) How many turns are we from BIO ? Personally, my instinct is to get on with infrastructure, and build the NE as soon as we can. *maybe* stopping with 1 turn to go before building the NP. (and if I was playing solo, I'd forget and have GPP pollution :crazyeyes: )
But, I can see Bulbz' view too we need the paras for the war. I'm not sure how long the target cities will take to be productive though. Whenever I go on a rampage like this is crashes my economy and takes 100s of years to get the cities back to production again. But that's probably cos I'm a monarch level player.

BLubmuz · May 22, 2009

I answer to both Sweeta and Simon and also open a discussion.

TurnSets:
Yes, it would be nice. I expected a got it from GB, but he's prolly busy.
Anyway he's got all the weekend to post an play.
Then Sweeta can play and hopefully post his report Tuesday, then is to Mesix, say Thursday, then to me in the weekend. Thus we'll arrive to the 19th TS (turn 134) by the end of this month.
We'll then have 57 days to finish. Considering 3 days/TS this means 19 TSs.
If we manage to finish by turn 200 we have 66 turns to play. More than enough time, even with only 4 turns TS. If we go for 5 turns/TS, we'll need some 13 more TSs, which will bring us to finish a couple weeks earlier than the 07/27.

After a long testing session, this can be our tech path.
Premise:
probably HC can see our research and if he sees we're going for Economics, he chooses another path: he knows he can't win missing Edu. But if he see to have a chance, he goes straight to Economics. So it's up to us. But wang do not research guilds until very late and Optics is the last tech HC trades. Not even Drama or music.
Also, he never start the Taj: even delaying it a bit, i never see loads of money in his F4.
Path, turns:
Nationalism 113
Astro 123
Guilds > Bank > Economics 132
Constitution 137
Here, i took a detour for corporations to benefit of the extra Trade route turn 140
Democracy 147 (PP needed we can lightbulb it if we have a GS around. i didn't)
Chem-Bio 153

We can discuss this path, detour to Corporations included long before the time will arrive. If i correctly interpreted your opinions, there's consensus on Astro after Nationalism and on the trade i proposed for Optics.
About Corporations, i can't say it pays for itself until Bio, but sure it's a huge benefit.

Last thing: I think that a GS has to be settled until turn 130. After that, better lightbulb.

OK, waiting for GB, now.

Simon_c · May 22, 2009

BLubmuz said:
Last thing: I think that a GS has to be settled until turn 130. After that, better lightbulb.

Won't an academy in Pindus be worth more than lightbulbing ?

Mesix · May 22, 2009

We need to get bio ASAP!!!

No more detours. We used Liberalism to pop Rifling...okay, I can see that. Theocracy was a waste, but the faster workers will get our cities developed faster...okay.

Bio must come next. We are not in danger of losing Democracy to the AI. We can tech in that direction after we get to bio.

Tech path for the next TS should be Chemistry > Biology.

Once we get Biology and have 8-10 free scientists in our NP city, then we will have the research necessary to take down some late game techs.

After Biology we need Astronomy. Astronomy will allow us to build both Observatories and Labroatories.

This game is all about research to get the SS off early. We must prioritize techs that contribute to that goal.

SGOTM 09 - Fifth Element

King

Prince

HoF Quattromaster

In the foetal position

In the foetal position

Prince

HoF Quattromaster

HoF Quattromaster

Attachments

Prince

HoF Quattromaster

HoF Quattromaster

Prince

The Allfather

HoF Quattromaster

The Allfather

In the foetal position

Prince

HoF Quattromaster

Prince

The Allfather

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