Sorry, as Renata says I've been really swamped these past days (quite unexpectedly). I would like to give myself one more chance to play, tomorrow, but if you feel it's better to move the game on then I'm fine with that too.
SGOTM 09 - Smurkz
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Xcalibrator
Ultraviolet Catastrophe
I would be very happy if Niklas can play today! 
What is unkle's status? I'm going to be out of town and can't play June 26-July 3; might be able to log in and follow along but I won't be able to look at the save. It would be great if unkle could play this weekend so I have next week for my turn. If he's not available I'd be happy to play this weekend.
What is unkle's status? I'm going to be out of town and can't play June 26-July 3; might be able to log in and follow along but I won't be able to look at the save. It would be great if unkle could play this weekend so I have next week for my turn. If he's not available I'd be happy to play this weekend.
I played up to 1480 AD, turn 138: >>The Save<<
No dramatic happenings, I'll let the turn log speak for itself:
No dramatic happenings, I'll let the turn log speak for itself:
Spoiler :
Backwards Logic
Emperor Palpatine
Fired up the save. Nothing special, though a few things have caught my eye:
I said it during Renata's turnset and I think I mentioned it before - still no fur hookup? Once Panama grows, it's at its happy cap. I think another happiness (or two, if you count the whales off the coast) is in store, even if they both obsolete in the near future. That's two extra happiness, and in Panama w/ National Epic that's two extra specialists. You do the math...
BLville. I noticed there's a worker on a hill that's sleeping (really? He has nothing better to do?). You aren't seriously considering to transform it into a windmill and give it to Panama are you? Leave it a mined hill and give it to BLville to amp up the production. Ditto the jungle hill next to the pigs outside of Panama. In my city planning I called for all of these tiles to be hills and worked by BLville to maximize production. We're not far off from Ironworks and BLville is ready to work these tiles now. There's a tile South of the southernmost farm that's unimproved. If you want hammers for Panama to build a University/Observatory (or market/grocer/bank for merchants), make it a workshop, but give the mined hills to BLville. Or farm it over and convert the windmill to a hill for an extra hammer. We also need a worker to mine the desert hill outside of BLville as well. Hammy's got the plains hill until we can relieve him of it, so another 3 hammer tile (four w/ levee) would be nice. Oh yea, since we have no garrison there next turn it gets really unhappy. Move the crossbow one tile away back into the city to prevent unhappiness.
Just a side note: Sparta is starving. Just thought I'd point that out.
Another side note: Phishing is making a Spy in 25 turns (on quick!). Is that actually going to help us? If we want spies to protect our cities, make them somewhere where they have a chance at being completed before the game is over...
Yet another friendly side note: Ouzo is at its happy cap and surpasses it in three. Build an odeon after the paratrooper finishes next turn. Also workshop up the bare plains tiles in its BFC - it's got food to burn and more hammers at this stage is a good thing. I might even consider making another 2 - 3 workers somewhere - railroads are not that far away.
So I guess we're invading Hammy. Which means we need something to knock out his culture in his 60% - 80% cities, and to knock out his sheer number of troops he has. Uh, artillery anyone? We're two techs away from it though, needing steel/artillery to get it done. Cannons are nice, but artillery bomb better, have a higher strength number, do far more collateral, and is only one extra tech away. We want this war to go as quickly as possible and artillery would help do that (Still don't think we should do it, but our power graph watchers seem to have the rest of the team convinced anyway...). Hammy also has a handful of airships, so machine guns to intercept them (railroad) would be nice. Let's try to not screw this war up like we screwed up with Shaka okay? Overkill is our friend... Oh yea, Joao is friendly with Hammy. Can you say two-front war in our future when we declare? Yea, I doubt we're prepared for that. Not only do we need an offensive force, but we'll need something to deter/beat back Joao. I'm sure our cities will be fine, it's the countryside outside of Panama and BLville I'm worried about. Joao does have four airships in Faro for bombing missions. I should point out we're six techs away from oil since we'd need plastics to hook it up, and that's assuming we beeline it. Just a reminder, there are no on shore sources of oil nearby. If we invade, it'll have to be without oil so keep that in mind.
We have another 3 - 4 turns of 100% before the treasury dries up. Thoughts to running 0% for a while or alternating 100% - 0% every other turn?
Tech Path? Just out of curiosity, but is radio a place holder tech right now or do we really want/need it for something? Would steel/artillery be better for our little war? Assembly Line for Factories in the production centers? When we trade for Democracy, are we going to want to attempt to build the Statue of Liberty? If so, factories would give us a huge edge over our competitors. Rocketry after that maybe, to get started on the Apollo Program? Then tech off whatever we need for SS parts? I'm just throwing things out there. In fact, I think I've thrown enough out here for one post. Your turn
I said it during Renata's turnset and I think I mentioned it before - still no fur hookup? Once Panama grows, it's at its happy cap. I think another happiness (or two, if you count the whales off the coast) is in store, even if they both obsolete in the near future. That's two extra happiness, and in Panama w/ National Epic that's two extra specialists. You do the math...
BLville. I noticed there's a worker on a hill that's sleeping (really? He has nothing better to do?). You aren't seriously considering to transform it into a windmill and give it to Panama are you? Leave it a mined hill and give it to BLville to amp up the production. Ditto the jungle hill next to the pigs outside of Panama. In my city planning I called for all of these tiles to be hills and worked by BLville to maximize production. We're not far off from Ironworks and BLville is ready to work these tiles now. There's a tile South of the southernmost farm that's unimproved. If you want hammers for Panama to build a University/Observatory (or market/grocer/bank for merchants), make it a workshop, but give the mined hills to BLville. Or farm it over and convert the windmill to a hill for an extra hammer. We also need a worker to mine the desert hill outside of BLville as well. Hammy's got the plains hill until we can relieve him of it, so another 3 hammer tile (four w/ levee) would be nice. Oh yea, since we have no garrison there next turn it gets really unhappy. Move the crossbow one tile away back into the city to prevent unhappiness.
Just a side note: Sparta is starving. Just thought I'd point that out.
Another side note: Phishing is making a Spy in 25 turns (on quick!). Is that actually going to help us? If we want spies to protect our cities, make them somewhere where they have a chance at being completed before the game is over...
Yet another friendly side note: Ouzo is at its happy cap and surpasses it in three. Build an odeon after the paratrooper finishes next turn. Also workshop up the bare plains tiles in its BFC - it's got food to burn and more hammers at this stage is a good thing. I might even consider making another 2 - 3 workers somewhere - railroads are not that far away.
So I guess we're invading Hammy. Which means we need something to knock out his culture in his 60% - 80% cities, and to knock out his sheer number of troops he has. Uh, artillery anyone? We're two techs away from it though, needing steel/artillery to get it done. Cannons are nice, but artillery bomb better, have a higher strength number, do far more collateral, and is only one extra tech away. We want this war to go as quickly as possible and artillery would help do that (Still don't think we should do it, but our power graph watchers seem to have the rest of the team convinced anyway...). Hammy also has a handful of airships, so machine guns to intercept them (railroad) would be nice. Let's try to not screw this war up like we screwed up with Shaka okay? Overkill is our friend... Oh yea, Joao is friendly with Hammy. Can you say two-front war in our future when we declare? Yea, I doubt we're prepared for that. Not only do we need an offensive force, but we'll need something to deter/beat back Joao. I'm sure our cities will be fine, it's the countryside outside of Panama and BLville I'm worried about. Joao does have four airships in Faro for bombing missions. I should point out we're six techs away from oil since we'd need plastics to hook it up, and that's assuming we beeline it. Just a reminder, there are no on shore sources of oil nearby. If we invade, it'll have to be without oil so keep that in mind.
We have another 3 - 4 turns of 100% before the treasury dries up. Thoughts to running 0% for a while or alternating 100% - 0% every other turn?
Tech Path? Just out of curiosity, but is radio a place holder tech right now or do we really want/need it for something? Would steel/artillery be better for our little war? Assembly Line for Factories in the production centers? When we trade for Democracy, are we going to want to attempt to build the Statue of Liberty? If so, factories would give us a huge edge over our competitors. Rocketry after that maybe, to get started on the Apollo Program? Then tech off whatever we need for SS parts? I'm just throwing things out there. In fact, I think I've thrown enough out here for one post. Your turn
Excellent analysis BL! 
Plastics will obsolete the Furs, and we might want to go there sooner rather than later. Sure an extra happy face (two in Sparta) for a few turns isn't too bad, but I didn't see it as a priority.
No, certainly not. I have no idea why that guy is sleeping, must have misclicked F over W at some point. He was active not long ago so he can't have been standing there for long. Oops.
I agree completely with all of this.
It's running a food deficit, not starving. It won't starve for quite some time, and in the mean time we can run an extra merchant. We might want to save the food deficit for our next golden age though.
The alternative would be to build wealth (or complete the granary I guess). 1 gpt isn't going to help any more than a Spy in 25 turns. I thought it was the least bad choice, suggested by Xcal.
Agreed on the workshops. I intended to preserve the last forest in Ouzo's BFC before it grows, using the 4 workers that just completed a lumbermill by Bonanza.
Uh, paratroopers? He has longbow defenders, which will likely have something like +150% or so, counting high. If we give our paratroopers C1, that's 26.4 strength vs 15 defense. Roughly 90% odds I predict (I don't have the sheet on this computer). This requires that we hit before rifles though, so we can't wait for Artillery. Also, paratroopers are fast. They couldn't possibly wait for the artillery to keep up. We can drop them off next to a number of Hammy's cities already next turn if we like - though I think we should build a few more first.
Sure, we should have something to deter Joao, I agree with that. I'm not too worried about him attacking us though, but I haven't checked our relative power ratio (do we even have enough EP on him to see it?). A bunch of paratroopers should certainly boost our power quite a bit though.
I think we should trade for Hammy's spare gold, that would allow another 1-2 turns. I agree with you though, we should run 0% for a while, and then go 100% research during our upcoming golden age.
It's a placeholder yes.
No, see above. Steel -> Railroad is probably our best path, but Assembly Line is definitely a competitor.
It's unlikely that any AI will trade us Democracy before SoL is already built.
We don't want to build Apollo (or most SS parts) without Aluminum, so we should tech off Industrialism before Rocketry. Tanks aren't too shabby either.
Hi team, I am back and reporting in for duty 
I will have a look at the save tomorrow (today, I am dead sleepy), though it might be wiser to get someone up before me, meaning I can play next week. I'll be off again 26-28, then full time available.
Need some time to catch up on the discussion, obviously.
I will have a look at the save tomorrow (today, I am dead sleepy), though it might be wiser to get someone up before me, meaning I can play next week. I'll be off again 26-28, then full time available.
Need some time to catch up on the discussion, obviously.
Xcalibrator
Ultraviolet Catastrophe
I need to look at the save to see how things stand, but here are a couple thougts. Does Zaki have an airport yet? We'll need one so we can airlift paratroopers (one per turn) into newly captured cities. Should BLville be building a forge before the Moai? I'm just thinking that once we get Moai we can work the sea tiles and get much better growth. And now that Zaki has a forge, is it running an engineer?
Is happiness going to be a concern down the road? Most of our beakers are going to come from specialists so it wouldn't kill us to move the culture slider off zero. It would be even better, though, if we had theatres; with dye we'd then be getting 3 happies with 10% culture, which is a pretty good return on the hammer/slider investment.
Are you back in the saddle, BL? Without Chris or Methos or CB, the "official" play order would be BL, unkle, and Xcal. I think the status of the latter two can be summarized as:
unkle--ready to play no sooner than Sunday(21), can't play Fri(26)-Sun(28)
Xcal--ready to play by Sat(20), can't play Fri(25)-Thu(July 2).
Is happiness going to be a concern down the road? Most of our beakers are going to come from specialists so it wouldn't kill us to move the culture slider off zero. It would be even better, though, if we had theatres; with dye we'd then be getting 3 happies with 10% culture, which is a pretty good return on the hammer/slider investment.
Are you back in the saddle, BL? Without Chris or Methos or CB, the "official" play order would be BL, unkle, and Xcal. I think the status of the latter two can be summarized as:
unkle--ready to play no sooner than Sunday(21), can't play Fri(26)-Sun(28)
Xcal--ready to play by Sat(20), can't play Fri(25)-Thu(July 2).
Backwards Logic
Emperor Palpatine
I might be back Monday or Tuesday. The yard's done (Yay!) and aside from my weekends being packed I have time early in the week. If we're quick with decisions I could *probably* play Mon or Tuesday.
About the furs - we have a worker by Greenland that just finished up a plains farm. I don't recall of the top of my head, but I think there's nothing else for him to do. Plastics is at least 6 techs away if we beeline it, so that's a bunch of turns with +1 happiness. The whales would obsolete sooner at Combustion (same path as the plastics path), but that's three techs away. It might be worth it to upgrade the whales, but I definitely think it's worth it to hook up the furs. Then also hook up the extra ones and trade them away. Most of our cities are at or close to the happy caps.
Yea, from a quality standpoint we'll destroy Hammy, but I'm not sure if we have enough at this point. When are we planning on declaring? What's our target number of paratroopers? Are we going for multiple stacks or many smaller ones? The airdrop ability is nice so you're right about the speed of our attack. I just hope we have enough guys to drop, then next turn take the city. On quick we really can't afford to use one or two turns killing off all of the defenders before taking the city - remember overkill is our friend.
I looked at the power numbers - we've spiked pretty good with the paras we have and are just below Hammy at this point. Our numbers should be well above Hammy when we declare, I'm just skeptical they'll be high enough so that Joao doesn't coming calling. We don't have any EP's towards Joao, so seeing his demographics is out of the question.
To answer Xcal about the engineer in Zaki - yes, it is running an engineer. Theaters are nice and cheap, but who has dye they'd be willing to trade? Not sure I agree with the culture slider - to me, I use that for culture wins or temporary measures to counter war-weariness. I guess we'll play it by ear when we get there.
About the furs - we have a worker by Greenland that just finished up a plains farm. I don't recall of the top of my head, but I think there's nothing else for him to do. Plastics is at least 6 techs away if we beeline it, so that's a bunch of turns with +1 happiness. The whales would obsolete sooner at Combustion (same path as the plastics path), but that's three techs away. It might be worth it to upgrade the whales, but I definitely think it's worth it to hook up the furs. Then also hook up the extra ones and trade them away. Most of our cities are at or close to the happy caps.
Yea, from a quality standpoint we'll destroy Hammy, but I'm not sure if we have enough at this point. When are we planning on declaring? What's our target number of paratroopers? Are we going for multiple stacks or many smaller ones? The airdrop ability is nice so you're right about the speed of our attack. I just hope we have enough guys to drop, then next turn take the city. On quick we really can't afford to use one or two turns killing off all of the defenders before taking the city - remember overkill is our friend.
I looked at the power numbers - we've spiked pretty good with the paras we have and are just below Hammy at this point. Our numbers should be well above Hammy when we declare, I'm just skeptical they'll be high enough so that Joao doesn't coming calling. We don't have any EP's towards Joao, so seeing his demographics is out of the question.
To answer Xcal about the engineer in Zaki - yes, it is running an engineer. Theaters are nice and cheap, but who has dye they'd be willing to trade? Not sure I agree with the culture slider - to me, I use that for culture wins or temporary measures to counter war-weariness. I guess we'll play it by ear when we get there.
I certainly have no objections. The alternative would be to build more farms, on the plains forest and then on the free grass, to get a chain down there. That's no rush though, so I'm fine with diverting for the Furs.
You're definitely right - but on the other side of the coin there's Hammy getting Rifling. I think we should declare in maybe 5-7 turns or so, and can hopefully have 10-12 paratroopers by then?
Our airship can scout out defenders pretty well in advance, so we know what we need to send where. I'd rather send a single big stack to take out a large production center, than send several smaller stacks that risk being bogged down while Hammy can keep building defenses.
One thing - should we start our next Golden Age right away? That would certainly help with the paratrooper building.
Yes, it's been running an engineer since the Forge was completed.
Shaka is already trading us Dyes.
I agree in principle, using the culture slider will invariably slow down our research. Having a few unhappy citizens here and there is usually a lot less costly.
Xcalibrator
Ultraviolet Catastrophe
Sorry to flip my position, but I'm having second thoughts about attacking Hammy. We got all those techs during Niklas's turn a lot faster than I expected, and now I see I've overestimated how long all our teching will take. For one thing, I just added up all the beakers without accounting for prereq discounts, and I just took the beaker rate listed by the research slider. I need to check things out more carefully, and/or can someone also explain to me some rules of thumb for figuring out our effective tech rate? The bottom line is that we're teching faster than I thought. If we can keep our teching ahead of our build-queues then there will be a lot less need for war.
On the other hand, knocking out Hammy removes a potential threat and gets his resources. No, he can't take our cities, but he can slow us down if he attacks. I'd like to push for Industrialism so we can see if we have any aluminum. If not, and Hammy has it (and remember, Gyathaar made this map
), then our choice is made. I'd then push for Plastics so Zaki can build a hydro plant and then the 3Gorges--remember, Nat'l Park means no coal plant there, and Zaki can build 3Gorges in something like 11 turns. The Steel/RR/Combusion route would be the other choice, but we really only need Steel for Ironworks and BLville isn't going to be ready to start that for quite awhile. The benefits of RRs are also limited until we start converting preserves into lumbermills (although the extra movement is handy).
On the other hand, knocking out Hammy removes a potential threat and gets his resources. No, he can't take our cities, but he can slow us down if he attacks. I'd like to push for Industrialism so we can see if we have any aluminum. If not, and Hammy has it (and remember, Gyathaar made this map
), then our choice is made. I'd then push for Plastics so Zaki can build a hydro plant and then the 3Gorges--remember, Nat'l Park means no coal plant there, and Zaki can build 3Gorges in something like 11 turns. The Steel/RR/Combusion route would be the other choice, but we really only need Steel for Ironworks and BLville isn't going to be ready to start that for quite awhile. The benefits of RRs are also limited until we start converting preserves into lumbermills (although the extra movement is handy).
Xcalibrator
Ultraviolet Catastrophe
First off, I messed up the file. But it's OK! I was trying to check how much money we'd get from a trade mission (click on Gt Merchant, hold Shift, right click on target city, hover over trade mission button--and then how do you cancel without moving?!) and accidentally moved it. No biggie since we're not going to use it for anything right now, but if someone other than I plays next I'll need to upload the file for you. Sorry. For the record, a mission to Coimbre (Joao) would get us 1407 gold. I tried there because it is currently giving us the highest trade route yield--don't know if that's relevant for trade missions, though. We shouldn't do it unless we miraculously get another Merchant from Zaki in 2 turns--just seeing what our options are.
Moving on... it might be better to have Zaki build levees before more paratroopers. I believe levees will give us 7 more base hammers, right? Other stuff that we should build before long are airport (167 hammers), grocer (100), bank (134), and courthouse (80).
To build railroads we need coal or oil and our only coal supply at the moment is by Zaki with a windmill on it. If we mine it we lose 1 food and Zaki will lose 1 (half time) specialist. Hammy has coal (unmined), however, next to Shusan. Our only oil is off Greenland but we'll need Plastics to build a platform. RRs will be coming up soon so let's make sure we have coal hooked up when needed. (BTW, regarding my previous post, I forgot that Plastics needs Combustion, so Plastics is quite a ways off.)
Regarding war planning: We can drop paratroopers next to 4 of Hammy's cities. I've very rarely used them--can they drop directly on enemy cities? I'd guess not, although maybe if they can kill the last defender...? From what I can tell from the Civilopedia, airships can not intercept our paras. We currently have 5 paras and will finish 3 more in 2 turns--didn't check beyond that but we'll need more. Hammy has only about 4 cottages (villages, actually) from what I can tell so we're not going to come into any immediate commerce riches by taking his cities.
I'm working on the GP popping schedule... Greenland is currently running 3 specs and could run 4 in 6 more turns if we switch one tile to work a farm--not sure if the GP would pop in time, though. What are our intentions for Greenland? Grow it some more to get more production or just try to squeeze out as many beakers as possible?
We're currently making 1225 beakers per turn at 100% research. Breakeven is 60%, which gives us 959 bpt. Based on the listed beaker costs per tech, however, our effective rate seems to be around 1600 bpt--can someone enlighten me? I know it's been explained before.
My sister-in-law and her husband are making an impromptu weekend visit--you know, one of those last-minute airline deals for carefree people without children. I'm therefore not sure how much time I'll have for playing--they leave Tuesday. They'll be visiting a fair amount with my in-laws, though, so I may still have some good chunks of time.
Do we have reasonable agreement on what to do for the next several turns? I'd say the next 2 turns are pretty uncontroversial and we can then pause to see what GP we pop.
For the record, a mission to Coimbre (Joao) would get us 1407 gold. I tried there because it is currently giving us the highest trade route yield--don't know if that's relevant for trade missions, though. We shouldn't do it unless we miraculously get another Merchant from Zaki in 2 turns--just seeing what our options are.Moving on... it might be better to have Zaki build levees before more paratroopers. I believe levees will give us 7 more base hammers, right? Other stuff that we should build before long are airport (167 hammers), grocer (100), bank (134), and courthouse (80).
To build railroads we need coal or oil and our only coal supply at the moment is by Zaki with a windmill on it. If we mine it we lose 1 food and Zaki will lose 1 (half time) specialist. Hammy has coal (unmined), however, next to Shusan. Our only oil is off Greenland but we'll need Plastics to build a platform. RRs will be coming up soon so let's make sure we have coal hooked up when needed. (BTW, regarding my previous post, I forgot that Plastics needs Combustion, so Plastics is quite a ways off.)
Regarding war planning: We can drop paratroopers next to 4 of Hammy's cities. I've very rarely used them--can they drop directly on enemy cities? I'd guess not, although maybe if they can kill the last defender...? From what I can tell from the Civilopedia, airships can not intercept our paras. We currently have 5 paras and will finish 3 more in 2 turns--didn't check beyond that but we'll need more. Hammy has only about 4 cottages (villages, actually) from what I can tell so we're not going to come into any immediate commerce riches by taking his cities.
I'm working on the GP popping schedule... Greenland is currently running 3 specs and could run 4 in 6 more turns if we switch one tile to work a farm--not sure if the GP would pop in time, though. What are our intentions for Greenland? Grow it some more to get more production or just try to squeeze out as many beakers as possible?
We're currently making 1225 beakers per turn at 100% research. Breakeven is 60%, which gives us 959 bpt. Based on the listed beaker costs per tech, however, our effective rate seems to be around 1600 bpt--can someone enlighten me? I know it's been explained before.
My sister-in-law and her husband are making an impromptu weekend visit--you know, one of those last-minute airline deals for carefree people without children. I'm therefore not sure how much time I'll have for playing--they leave Tuesday. They'll be visiting a fair amount with my in-laws, though, so I may still have some good chunks of time.
Do we have reasonable agreement on what to do for the next several turns? I'd say the next 2 turns are pretty uncontroversial and we can then pause to see what GP we pop.
Xcalibrator
Ultraviolet Catastrophe
Dudes! Where is everybody? Given that people apparently don't have a lot of spare time, how about if I play 3 or so turns later today, just to see what GP we get? My plan would be:
Cancel the Gt Merchant's move. (Actually, since he's already used his movement and I can't mess up any more, check out trade mission payoffs to other cities.)
Zaki: levees (2 turns), then paras
Greenland: workboat for whales
Ouzo: odeon, paras
Panama: Run specialists once the happy cap is hit. After Nat'l Epic is in, build more workers (but that's down the road).
Others as is.
Move crossbow into BLville to avoid unhappiness.
Trade for Hammy's gold.
[Edit: See what Hammy and Wang want for Printing Press after they get it.]
Workers: Hook up Greenland fur(s) and trade extras.
Mills and mines for BLville and Ouzo. For BLville in particular, mine jungle hill by pigs, mine desert river hill, wake worker on hill.
Preserve last forest in Ouzo's BFC.
Set research to 0%. What to tech? I've been saying Assembly Line (and then Industrialism so we can see Aluminum), but I'm wondering about Steel --> Railroad to move troops around and get an extra hammer from the increasing number of mines and Lmills we have. Any comments? It'll be at least a couple hours, and maybe tonight, before I can play.
Cancel the Gt Merchant's move. (Actually, since he's already used his movement and I can't mess up any more, check out trade mission payoffs to other cities.)
Zaki: levees (2 turns), then paras
Greenland: workboat for whales
Ouzo: odeon, paras
Panama: Run specialists once the happy cap is hit. After Nat'l Epic is in, build more workers (but that's down the road).
Others as is.
Move crossbow into BLville to avoid unhappiness.
Trade for Hammy's gold.
[Edit: See what Hammy and Wang want for Printing Press after they get it.]
Workers: Hook up Greenland fur(s) and trade extras.
Mills and mines for BLville and Ouzo. For BLville in particular, mine jungle hill by pigs, mine desert river hill, wake worker on hill.
Preserve last forest in Ouzo's BFC.
Set research to 0%. What to tech? I've been saying Assembly Line (and then Industrialism so we can see Aluminum), but I'm wondering about Steel --> Railroad to move troops around and get an extra hammer from the increasing number of mines and Lmills we have. Any comments? It'll be at least a couple hours, and maybe tonight, before I can play.
Sounds good to me. Since we need oil for our railroads, and plastics for our oil, I'd definitely go Assembly Line next.
Xcalibrator
Ultraviolet Catastrophe
Well, we do have that unmined coal by Zaki, which would suffice for RR. But I'll do Assembly Line first unless someone argues against.
Going out to mow the lawn in between days-long bouts of rain, so I won't be playing until tonight.
Xcalibrator
Ultraviolet Catastrophe
I fiddled with a few things at the end of turn 138 and played through the end of turn 140. Zaki built levees, which gave us 6 more bse hammers (40 total base). I then started a bank, which will complete in just over 1 turn. Why not paratroopers? Because a bank will give us 38 more gold, allowing one more 10% notch up the research slider at breakeven--I figured it was worth it.
I took off all Greenland's sci's to build a workboat in 2. It will get the whales next turn, just in time to raise the happy cap on Panama, which also completes the National Epic next turn. I'll then have Panama build a theatre and then a market (which will give us +2 happy with the whales and furs, in addition to the fur happiness) to try to keep ahead of the unhappiness. A worker is on some furs by Greenland but it will take 4 turns for the camp and 3 for a road. I've therefore delayed the observatory again to build a worker (3 turns), who will knock the time to connect the furs from 7 to 5 turns. We need a lot of other work there so I figured it was a good investment.
BLville and Ouzo and Athens got a couple or three new Lmills/mines/workshops and more are on the way. I sent 2 paratroopers from Bonanza down to NW of BLville to dissuade Hammy from any foolishness. Oh, BTW: Hammy just signed a defensive pact with Joao.
I gave Hammy Guilds (he has no horses) for 280 gold+Theocracy+his map and kept our research at 100%. We're now at 542 (-146/turn) with a little over 1 turn to go on Assembly Line. Last, we just got a Great Sci in Zaki so we're ready to burn that plus a Great Merchant whenever we want to start a Golden Age. Gt Sci's are up to 1236 bulbing beakers, BTW. I'm going to upload the save--see Progress page.
Please advise!
Smurkzaki begins: Levee (3 turns)
Ouzo begins: Odeon (1 turns)
Greenland begins: Work Boat (3 turns)
Research begun: Assembly Line (4 Turns)
Tech learned: Theology
Xcalibrator Guilds to Hammy for 280g+map+Theo
Bonanza finishes: Paratrooper
Ouzo finishes: Odeon
Panama grows: 14
BLville grows: 9
IBT:
Attitude Change: Stalin(Russia) towards Shaka(Zululand), from 'Pleased' to 'Friendly'
Attitude Change: Shaka(Zululand) towards Huayna Capac(Inca), from 'Pleased' to 'Friendly'
Turn 139/330 (1490 AD) [20-Jun-2009 21:32:49]
Bonanza begins: Paratrooper (2 turns)
A Lumbermill was built near BLville
A Lumbermill was built near Ouzo
Sparta begins: Spy (4 turns)
Smurkzaki finishes: Levee
Plato (Great Scientist) born in Smurkzaki
Athens grows: 15
Ouzo finishes: Paratrooper
Greenland's borders expand
Greenland finishes: Work Boat
IBT:
Attitude Change: Stalin(Russia) towards Shaka(Zululand), from 'Friendly' to 'Pleased'
Attitude Change: Shaka(Zululand) towards Huayna Capac(Inca), from 'Friendly' to 'Pleased'
Turn 140/330 (1500 AD) [20-Jun-2009 21:46:40]
Smurkzaki begins: Bank (2 turns)
Ouzo begins: Paratrooper (4 turns)
A Lumbermill was built near BLville
A Workshop was built near Ouzo
A Lumbermill was built near Athens
Greenland begins: Worker (3 turns)
I took off all Greenland's sci's to build a workboat in 2. It will get the whales next turn, just in time to raise the happy cap on Panama, which also completes the National Epic next turn. I'll then have Panama build a theatre and then a market (which will give us +2 happy with the whales and furs, in addition to the fur happiness) to try to keep ahead of the unhappiness. A worker is on some furs by Greenland but it will take 4 turns for the camp and 3 for a road. I've therefore delayed the observatory again to build a worker (3 turns), who will knock the time to connect the furs from 7 to 5 turns. We need a lot of other work there so I figured it was a good investment.
BLville and Ouzo and Athens got a couple or three new Lmills/mines/workshops and more are on the way. I sent 2 paratroopers from Bonanza down to NW of BLville to dissuade Hammy from any foolishness. Oh, BTW: Hammy just signed a defensive pact with Joao.
I gave Hammy Guilds (he has no horses) for 280 gold+Theocracy+his map and kept our research at 100%. We're now at 542 (-146/turn) with a little over 1 turn to go on Assembly Line. Last, we just got a Great Sci in Zaki so we're ready to burn that plus a Great Merchant whenever we want to start a Golden Age. Gt Sci's are up to 1236 bulbing beakers, BTW. I'm going to upload the save--see Progress page.
Please advise!
Smurkzaki begins: Levee (3 turns)
Ouzo begins: Odeon (1 turns)
Greenland begins: Work Boat (3 turns)
Research begun: Assembly Line (4 Turns)
Tech learned: Theology
Xcalibrator Guilds to Hammy for 280g+map+Theo
Bonanza finishes: Paratrooper
Ouzo finishes: Odeon
Panama grows: 14
BLville grows: 9
IBT:
Attitude Change: Stalin(Russia) towards Shaka(Zululand), from 'Pleased' to 'Friendly'
Attitude Change: Shaka(Zululand) towards Huayna Capac(Inca), from 'Pleased' to 'Friendly'
Turn 139/330 (1490 AD) [20-Jun-2009 21:32:49]
Bonanza begins: Paratrooper (2 turns)
A Lumbermill was built near BLville
A Lumbermill was built near Ouzo
Sparta begins: Spy (4 turns)
Smurkzaki finishes: Levee
Plato (Great Scientist) born in Smurkzaki
Athens grows: 15
Ouzo finishes: Paratrooper
Greenland's borders expand
Greenland finishes: Work Boat
IBT:
Attitude Change: Stalin(Russia) towards Shaka(Zululand), from 'Friendly' to 'Pleased'
Attitude Change: Shaka(Zululand) towards Huayna Capac(Inca), from 'Friendly' to 'Pleased'
Turn 140/330 (1500 AD) [20-Jun-2009 21:46:40]
Smurkzaki begins: Bank (2 turns)
Ouzo begins: Paratrooper (4 turns)
A Lumbermill was built near BLville
A Workshop was built near Ouzo
A Lumbermill was built near Athens
Greenland begins: Worker (3 turns)
Xcalibrator
Ultraviolet Catastrophe
Correction: A bank in Zaki will only let us raise the research slider by 4% on average (I was using commerce instead of gold). Since specs contribute half our beakers, this works out to only about a 2% net increase in the beaker rate, so I'll probably change the bank (no hammers invested yet) back to paratroopers.
So, does the Hammy/Joao pact change things appreciably? Probably not much, since we were going to put some defensive units down south anyway. I think we should build another frigate in Athens to defend our Panama seafood and/or bombard Joao's coastal cities.
The big questions are: When should we start the Golden Age, and how many units do we need to open the war? I think we should strike 2 cities at once (WNW and WSW of Bonanza--sorry, we don't seem to have a relevant screenshot), cutting off Shusan and the other coastal city NW of there to take at our leisure (probably with 1 infantry and 1 cannon each, slowly knocking down the defenses). I think around 8 paratroopers per group would be good.
A couple infantry or paratroopers posted in jungle south of Panama should suffice to hold Joao until we go after him. I believe we have 8 paratroopers now and can produce around 2 per turn. BTW, paras can move 7 tiles per turn in our lands if they drop onto roads: 5 for the drop, which uses 1/3 of the movement if they drop onto a road, and then 2 more tiles along roads. I used that to get 2 paras from Bonanza to near BLville quickly. Question: Can paras only drop when they start in a city? I would assume so but need to check (or have someone tell me).
I'd really like to get Industrialism before we attack to see where the aluminum is. Then go for Steel to build a few cannon. We can only run 3 more turns at 100% research, so a Golden Age is probably in order in the next turn or so to boost our war preparations and keep the research rate up. Ind'ism would be about 5 turns away then; we can get Steel in 2. Assembly Line has a little more then 1 turn to go. I'll put the research slider at 0% until the Golden Age. Wang and Hammy should have PP next turn.
I don't feel comfortable playing more without advice from y'all. Please?
So, does the Hammy/Joao pact change things appreciably? Probably not much, since we were going to put some defensive units down south anyway. I think we should build another frigate in Athens to defend our Panama seafood and/or bombard Joao's coastal cities.
The big questions are: When should we start the Golden Age, and how many units do we need to open the war? I think we should strike 2 cities at once (WNW and WSW of Bonanza--sorry, we don't seem to have a relevant screenshot), cutting off Shusan and the other coastal city NW of there to take at our leisure (probably with 1 infantry and 1 cannon each, slowly knocking down the defenses). I think around 8 paratroopers per group would be good.
A couple infantry or paratroopers posted in jungle south of Panama should suffice to hold Joao until we go after him. I believe we have 8 paratroopers now and can produce around 2 per turn. BTW, paras can move 7 tiles per turn in our lands if they drop onto roads: 5 for the drop, which uses 1/3 of the movement if they drop onto a road, and then 2 more tiles along roads. I used that to get 2 paras from Bonanza to near BLville quickly. Question: Can paras only drop when they start in a city? I would assume so but need to check (or have someone tell me).
I'd really like to get Industrialism before we attack to see where the aluminum is. Then go for Steel to build a few cannon. We can only run 3 more turns at 100% research, so a Golden Age is probably in order in the next turn or so to boost our war preparations and keep the research rate up. Ind'ism would be about 5 turns away then; we can get Steel in 2. Assembly Line has a little more then 1 turn to go. I'll put the research slider at 0% until the Golden Age. Wang and Hammy should have PP next turn.
I don't feel comfortable playing more without advice from y'all. Please?
r_rolo1
King of myself
have you dropped the save somewhere ? 
Xcalibrator
Ultraviolet Catastrophe
For some reason I have an aversion to attachments. Will do next time. Save is on Progress page.
r_rolo1
King of myself
No prob Just say that is on the progress page next time (j/k .... I completely missed that reference )
Just say that is on the progress page next time (j/k .... I completely missed that reference )Similar threads
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