SGOTM 09 - Team CFR

Obormot, try to play with tis save. Of course, real map will be different, I didn't try to make north corner of the map... And when Lexad added techs to AI barbs disapeared... :(
But we can compare different starts, amount of cities, slavery and so on...
 

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Gyathaar says techs should be added to wbs file in text mode, not in-game, to retain barbs. Will try to post correct save tomorrow.
 
Lexad said:
When you build you also get commerce from windmills/preserves. And if we go for Wri vs AH or Phood, pop-rush will not be that efficient without granaries. We should use slavery if we see strong competition for remaining settling points, but that'll be towards the end.

Maybe Obormot could test an early axe-rush for these settings and share his findings with the rest.
Click to expand...

If we skip BW, we should also skip pottery.

I am sure that an axe-rush is doable at quick speed at monarch. And if we have copper and a nice sweet AI capital within ~10-15 tiles it should be the best opening. But we may be alone on our landmass, or we may not have any neighbours close enough. And we know nothing about the map.

But the success of beelining Alphabet depends on the map type as well. We may be alone on our landmass, or our only neighbour could be someone like Shaka.

Getting BW & Pottery is OK in any case. If we are alone, we must research those techs anyway for our developement. If we have a close neighbour & copper it gives us an oppotrtunity to axe-rush. The only case in which we loose something is if we find several AI civs with our scout and none of them is close enough for rushing (or we have no copper). And even then we don't loose that much.
 
Lexad said:
Maybe Obormot could test an early axe-rush for these settings and share his findings with the rest.
Click to expand...

OK, i tried a game with axe phalanx rushing, and it works OK.

Athens built worker, warrior, settler (at size two), warrior, worker, worker (at size 3). Settler sent south to copper (great city with 4 resources). Sparta built worker, then started barracks & phalanxes. Athens built a granary, whipped another settler and a library, then it started building troops too. Third city founded on the plains hill in the west near Hannibal's capital.

When I had 15 phalanxes (10 of them ready to attack), I started the war. At quick speed Hannibal had time to pop-rush archers before I approached his cities, but still the war wasn't difficult. Hannibal is dead at turn 67 (or 320BC). I have 8 cities at this point, and I am researching civil service. My science is propably significantly slower then in peacefull games, but I grabbed some nice land, and it should be possible to settle more strong cities. I have an academy in Athens plus another unused GS. I also got a GG in the war with Carthage. There are still some phalanxes remaining, and it should be possible to continue warring after adding several cats to the phalanx stack. Of course the key to success here was that Hannibal didn't have iron. A rush against crossbows would not have been possible.
 

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Nice, but we should know about existing close neighbour, Copper for us and no Iron for the AI very early... Really we can't know it in 7 starting turns before we shoud choose our strategy... And you missed the Oracle. May be it isn't a big loss. Yes, the room for later expansion is ready in your test and science is quite ok. It looks like we will have a great decision point very soon...
 
We'll have to make a blind guess without knowing the map.

Dynamic, can you upload your saves at 1AD and maybe some point later? It will be interesting to see how this game is going to be developing.
 
Great! I believe this covers all the Oracle effect we could get. But we have to risk finding no copper nearby.

If we get Alpha by turn 40 as Dynamic says, we can trade for BW (if there are trading partners), meanwhile developing production base and building barracks, put another city and still get a decent army in 15 turns or so, meanwhile building roads for troops to future front. This way we do not have to risk finding no copper nearby and straying from optimal techpath for BW.
 
The problem is that trading is not guaranteed. We may be isolated or only have one AI on our landmass, or have leaders that don't trade.
 
The problem is that trading is not guaranteed. We may be isolated or only have one AI on our landmass, or have leaders that don't trade
Click to expand...
That's the whole point. By then we'll know who/how numerous our neighbours are. If we cannot hope to benefit from Alpha, go for BW. Otherwise get BW from trade. Thus Writing before BW gives us flexibility (as well as opportunity to get GS for Academy earlier).
 
Here is a test with barbs, manual WBS editing.
 

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We might be able to get the AI that takes Genetics to friendly and trade for it later. This way we get the tech, but don't need to waste hammers on Oracle. Should be a good thing to do anyway if its someone like Gandhi.
 
We might be able to get the AI that takes Genetics to friendly and trade for it later.
Click to expand...
Yep. This also mean not killing him with axes :)
Getting AI to Friendly is a bit tricky here, as it takes the same number of turns at Quick and Marathon to get + from religio, OB, civics, resource trades, etc. That means we have to start being nice early :)
 
You are very far ahead in science compared to my game, it'll take some 15 more turns for me to get CS, while you already have it at that date (plus MC). That is a big difference.

I have a slightly higher population though, and I have room for more cities (you can get up to 10 cities or so, while I can get 15 or even 20). But I don't know if founding so many cities will pay off.
 
Obormot said:
You are very far ahead in science compared to my game, it'll take some 15 more turns for me to get CS, while you already have it at that date (plus MC). That is a big difference.

I have a slightly higher population though, and I have room for more cities (you can get up to 10 cities or so, while I can get 15 or even 20). But I don't know if founding so many cities will pay off.
Click to expand...

Yes, I will have 13-14 cities max. But may be the more important goal is to reach National Park ASAP with appropriate amount of cities... We need more tests...
 
We need to test further development, as Obormot has more expansion later-game potential, so he might catch up.
 
Lexad said:
We need to test further development, as Obormot has more expansion later-game potential, so he might catch up.
Click to expand...
Turn 87 (410AD) Oxford, 400 bulbs, 11 cities. Will test to Park, it looks like cities are founded after it already don't give big effect...
 
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