SGOTM 09 - Xteam

[ShannonCT]

Once first scientist pops I can work things to pop a Prophet next or another GS, the Prophet would be to shrine confucionism and help the religion spread as well as generate the moneys, the scientist would be for either a second academy or saved for the Edu bulb.

Since a second scientist is better than a prophet in the short term (settled in Athens), I'd think we should go for the earlier, better GP. We can easily get a third scientist in time for Education.

Once Pyreaus finishes library there's a decision to make, settler or worker?

Worker. We wont have enough workers if we build a settler there next. Athens could build a settler after the airship.

What do we build in marble city? We need more settlers, more phalanxes and more workers.

It seems like this is the best place to build phalanxes after a granary is whipped. It will take time for Delphi to grow to Pop5, and building workers/settlers there would just delay it further.

 

[PaulisKhan]

Sound reasoning. We have some time to build settlers in Athen until our civics changes are ready.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Everything I'm reading sounds good, with the possible exception of settling our next city so far away. Are we sure the risks and problems associated with having a distant city to connect to and protect is worth it?

 

[leif erikson]

Played around a bit this evening. A bit concerned about tech pace.

1) Whip library in Piraeus at Pop5 and then stagnate by building a worker to avoid unhappy citizen. Hire 1 scientist immediately, and 1 more when whip wears off and it regrows to Pop5.

Agree, this seems to work pretty well.

2) I don't know that we need to whip airship in Athens. Library will complete next turn with chop coming in this turn. Airship completes in 4 more turns without whipping. Let Athens grow to work more watermills.

Agree.

3) Turn research to 0% for 2 turns to save cash (settling new city puts us at -10 gpt). We want to be able to run at 100% for a while after 2 libraries are built. Turn research to 0% for a couple more turns after CoL until academy is built.

Yes, see below.

4) In new western city, send a couple workers to hook cows, build windmill, then hook copper. Whip a granary at Pop2 and build a couple warriors before copper is hooked. Send warriors to Athens.

5) Use whip/chop library overflow in Delphi after Math. Chop at least 3 forests. Remember that snow forests take 4 turns to chop, but all others take 3.

I had trouble doing both of these, not enough Workers. And I'm not sure we get the most out of it? Chopping all three forests and pop-rushing a citizen netted 32 gold, iirc. It gets eaten up in 3 or 4 turns.

6) After airship in Athens, build phalanxes while growing and workers/settlers when at happy cap. Maintain at least 1.5 workers per city.

Agree. If a chance comes to produce a second Airship, we might consider it. Weakening a Barb before it attacks a city is nice. Had a couple of Barb Galleys show up near our second city and they were pillaging our fishing resources. Had to research Sailing and station a Galley on the Fish, hitting the Barb galley before it attacked our Galley. Also, its range is actually greater than 8 as you can see beyond the 8-tiles, depending upon which terrain feature one flies over...

Everything I'm reading sounds good, with the possible exception of settling our next city so far away. Are we sure the risks and problems associated with having a distant city to connect to and protect is worth it?

I'm a bit concerned about our next city being so far afield, especially if the plains cow is the only food resource. Instead of Watermills producing Gold, we'll need to irrigate to get beyond size 5. And I think it'll need a Courthouse. Really took a pretty good hit to research rate.

Is this city's purpose to prepare to hit Hammy?

 

[ShannonCT]

Everything I'm reading sounds good, with the possible exception of settling our next city so far away. Are we sure the risks and problems associated with having a distant city to connect to and protect is worth it?

A city built on the east side of the river will connect to Delphi's borders upon it's first border expansion. We'll have Babylon to the west and coasts not far away to the north and south. So it won't be too hard to defend against barbs. The distance maintenance will start at 2 gpt.

CP, I was hoping to see your submission to BOTM16, since archipeligo is ideal for using Sushi. I guess time has not allowed?

I had trouble doing both of these, not enough Workers. And I'm not sure we get the most out of it? Chopping all three forests and pop-rushing a citizen netted 32 gold, iirc. It gets eaten up in 3 or 4 turns.

I'm thinking of researching Monarchy before Math, so there is time to get some workers to Delphi. 3 chops and a whip on a library should net up to 100 gold.

 

[leif erikson]

I'm thinking of researching Monarchy before Math, so there is time to get some workers to Delphi. 3 chops and a whip on a library should net up to 100 gold.

Have to try it again tomorrow and check and see why I got such a different result?

I did Monarchy before Math and was able to trade for Math as I went Alphabet after Monarchy.

The interesting problem was when to research Metal Casting for Forges. (And, perhaps, Colossus?) The AI never seem to get there very quickly. Also, Civil Service is important for Bureaucracy and Maces.

 

[Grover22]

Can we get to paratroopers without maces?
More generally, how quickly are we planning on getting there?

 

[leif erikson]

Can we get to paratroopers without maces?

Maces are not really the important part, although they are nice because we don't need Iron for them.

The more important part is Bureaucracy with +50% hammers and +50% commerce in the capital, really helps pump up the research rate.

 

[Cactus Pete]

A city built on the east side of the river will connect to Delphi's borders upon it's first border expansion. We'll have Babylon to the west and coasts not far away to the north and south. So it won't be too hard to defend against barbs. The distance maintenance will start at 2 gpt. Okay, but what if the warrior's next move shows a significantly better site further west or SW? Do we settle there next or make that our fifth city and settle our fourth closer to home?

CP, I was hoping to see your submission to BOTM16, since archipeligo is ideal for using Sushi. I guess time has not allowed? I have time for only one GOTM per month, and I was in the middle of leif's game when BOTM16 started, so I still haven't had to learn to like raw fish yet.

I'm thinking of researching Monarchy before Math, so there is time to get some workers to Delphi. 3 chops and a whip on a library should net up to 100 gold.

You're suggesting we chop 3 forests for gold before Math?

 

[ShannonCT]

Can we get to paratroopers without maces?
More generally, how quickly are we planning on getting there?

No unit upgrades to paratrooper so we'll have to build them from scratch. Maces upgrade to riflemen, which wouldn't be totally useless.

 

[ShannonCT]

You're suggesting we chop 3 forests for gold before Math?

No, rather that workers can build other crucial improvements while waiting for Math.

If the warrior finds a better site further west, we might have a hard time beating Hammy to it.

 

[leif erikson]

I was in the middle of leif's game

Thanks for playing. Hope you enjoyed it!

 

[leif erikson]

Kind of quiet around here?

PK, how are you doing? Are there opinions you would like or questions you'd like help answering?

If you are confident in moving forward, please feel free to play through Code of Laws.
During the turn set, if you find no food to the west and are unsure where to settle, please feel free to stop, save and post a screen shot with the details. As this is a quick speed game, I think we should start trying to keep turn sets to around 10 turns each, with variations for objectives that should be resolved before the next set starts.

Anything else that happens that causes you to , please let us know.

If you are ready, please let us know when you plan to start so we can keep our eyes open in case you need assistance.

 

[PaulisKhan]

Lief: What I need the most help with in these types of games is the actual worker job plans, I'm better with the long term strategy than I am with the the short term micro.

I was out later than expected tonight but I'll be home all day tomorrow and nothing planned other than Civ so I can hammer out a specific pre-turnset-plan.

I will plan to play the next 3-4 turns some time around 10-11pm EST and I'll be around for discussion from as early as 7pm EST for discussion. If I get stuck or confused at any point I'll stop and post a save before proceeding.

 

[ShannonCT]

Lief: What I need the most help with in these types of games is the actual worker job plans, I'm better with the long term strategy than I am with the the short term micro.

I can try to help with this.

1) The active worker on the sheep could go to the plains hill next to Delphi, build a windmill, and then go to the cows in time for our 4th city's border pop.

2) The spent worker on the sheep can go help with a watermill south of Athens next turn, and then preserve the roaded plains forest next to Athens.

3) Of the two workers preserving a forest now, both can build a road after the preserve, and then they can split up, one to preserve a new forest for Piraeus, and one to preserve the roaded plains forest next to Athens.

4) A new worker from Piraeus (after library whip) can chop the forest east of Athens to make room for another watermill.

 

[leif erikson]

Lief: What I need the most help with in these types of games is the actual worker job plans, I'm better with the long term strategy than I am with the the short term micro.

Thanks SCT.

I was out later than expected tonight but I'll be home all day tomorrow and nothing planned other than Civ so I can hammer out a specific pre-turnset-plan.

We all face real life issues and my purpose is not to hurry you. I think we would all prefer you to feel ready before taking the mouse.
On the other hand, I also do not want the thread to stagnate and for folks to lose interest.
As long as we know you're there and thinking about it.

I will plan to play the next 3-4 turns some time around 10-11pm EST and I'll be around for discussion from as early as 7pm EST for discussion. If I get stuck or confused at any point I'll stop and post a save before proceeding.

Sounds good!

 

[Frederiksberg]

I'm back and have read up on the thread. So far I haven't really had time to do any independent thinking and I think the plans look good.

A few remarks. Do we want open borders with Joao and Hammurabi? I forget if we get a negative attitude change should we cancel these deals later to block off land. Right now it seems very valuable to start scouting Portuguese (scout should be ready to enter) and Babylonian lands (our warrior scouts).

Since we are planning to settle west we should probably move the phalanx in Delphi SW and then move the new phalanx in Athens towards Delphi. This way the phalanx can get a little ahead of the settler and the combination of the warrior and the phalanx should be good enough to ensure the settler a fast and safe passage.

Noticed that Hammurabi is Jewish. This means that he will not like us if we become Confucian. Unless we can convert him, of course.

Pyrayryeyaus

Sorry about the naming. In the last SGOTM we started giving our own names to the cities. And since Piraeus is the name of the port city of Athens this name seemed appropriate to me. As you probably know the "real" Oracle was located in Delphi. Hence the naming of the 3rd city.

I had trouble doing both of these, not enough Workers. And I'm not sure we get the most out of it? Chopping all three forests and pop-rushing a citizen netted 32 gold, iirc. It gets eaten up in 3 or 4 turns.

I think we should give improvements higher priority than chopping. This also argues for Monarchy before Math since it will be a while before we have the workers.

 

[leif erikson]

I'm back and have read up on the thread. So far I haven't really had time to do any independent thinking and I think the plans look good.

Nice to see you back Fred.

Hope the trip to Paris was interesting.
And not too exhausting...

 

[PaulisKhan]

I'm on and starting to nail down the turnset. Will update the plan soon

 

[leif erikson]

I'm on and starting to nail down the turnset. Will update the plan soon