SGOTM 09 - Xteam

[Cactus Pete]

SGOTM09 UPDATE ON TURNS 131 – 132

TURN

IBT – Constitution>Corporation

131 – Braga and Leira fall, without losses (paras haven’t let down yet); continue to degrade Atlantis with frigate in anticipation of eventual attack for gold, once other military objectives are achieved; Huamanga and Sugar City liberated; position forces for attack on Ham; begin building RxRs from Argos paradrop point to Sparta and from Dur K. to Athens to facilitate future troop movement;

IBT – Skaka cancels silk for fish deal, but am able to keep silk by offering crabs as well as fish (Note that Shaka will declare on Wang for a price. As this would also involve HC, think it’s worth considering.); Justinian requests Phil, which I gift him and trade for his extra copper as well, to redeem myself a bit; Corporation>Assembly Line.

132 – Trade Phil to Stalin for 40 gold; capture P’yongsong -- suggest we gift it to HC; airship reveals that Seoul and Nampo are not strongly defended; declare on Ham and advance on capital.

Taking a break for lunch. Will finish in a couple of hours.

SAVE: http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=217627&stc=1&d=1244917155

 

[Frederiksberg]

I see that you have managed to cut off some Babylonian defenders. I guess there are only 2 turns left for Dur..

I don't think we should build chariots in hammer poor cities. They need all hammers to be spent on courthouses so that we can spread corporations there. Corinth can build MP's. We already have 35 paratroopers and Argos will soon be building one each turn so we probably don't need to build units anywhere else. Delphi could use a courthouse - it's an ideal city for Mining Inc. Remember that this is a tech race not a domination game.

Hope there will soon be a slot for transfering a worker or two to Tiwanaku. I think we need several workers in Cuzco also. I'm leaning towards chopping the courthouse and FP there and building Ironworks in Seul instead.

With 35 paratroopers we should be able to fight in more than one war theatre. Don't think we can attack Atlantis - at least I don't know that we have any amphibious units yet. Shaka is a possibility.

Airport capacity is limited so we should find a way to airlift two units every turn. Workers and MP's for Cuzco and Justinians resource cities unless something more pressing (like settler for coal+iron) gets priority.

Rather surprising that we haven't captured a single worker from the Inca's. Where did they go?

We can construct Mining Inc ans Sushi in Akkad now so please do!! And lets get the coal mined outside Athens.

 

[Frederiksberg]

Perhaps send some galleons and paratroopers to the east coast of our continent so that we can open a second war theatre in Africa. If we send all 35 paratroopers to Korea conquest will go slower. Need to operate with multiple war theatres to keep up speed of attack. Build a galleon in Argos if necessary. We have a canal (fort) to the east coast there.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Whoever is up next should certainly read Fred's latest posts. I've finished and am preparing brief report, then RL demands me.

Save: http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=217641&stc=1&d=1244923916

 

[Cactus Pete]

CACTUS PETE

SGOTM09 REPORT ON TURNS 133 – 134

TURN

IBT – Shaka completes U. of Sankore; Judaism spreads to Babanango

133 – Trade Stalin Philosophy for 60 gold;

Then I continue to play out the turn (probably only had a dozen unit moves left) and somehow I inadvertently initiated the next turn while trying to move an airship. (Thinking I may have been over the red dot when I clicked to move it.) At any rate, not much harm done, other than worker left unmoved and subsequently captured by Wang’s forces IBT.

IBT – Barracks in Mycenae destroyed by enemy infltrator; GS born in Bab; Wang completes Angkor Wat.

THOUGHTS:

Agree with Fred that we can continue to fight on several fronts simultaneously. That’s why I started building Rushmore. We may need jails after courthouses in former Incan cities.

Move paras and gift P’yongsong to HC.

Move all units in Inch’on and gift to Justin.

Look to get amphibious promos for several paratroopers. Eventually, we will have many to burn. With a few cannons sacrificially attacking Atlantis from galleon, we can substantially reduce the combat strength of units in the city.

The Bab windmill, now a mine, has been pre-improved to a windmill again. (I hope . . . didn’t check after unwanted turn abortion.) Sorry, I don’t know how to put notes onto save.

Suggest GA from GS to increase revenue to offset expenses.

Think we need missionaries in cities where fast courthouse building is needed.

Reminder to next player that a unit must end previous turn in the airport city in order to transport him the active turn (and there should be a good deal of such teleporting in the next turn set as units from Dur K. battle are sent to the front(s), and missionaries, workers, and MPs are sent south.

 

[Frederiksberg]

Whoever is up next should certainly read Fred's latest posts. I've finished and am preparing brief report, then RL demands me.

Disappointed that you didn't go back and read my posts before continuing. Then we could have avoided wasting 2 turns where we could have had Mining Inc. and Sushi. Don't like when play is being rushed.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Disappointed that you didn't go back and read my posts before continuing. Then we could have avoided wasting 2 turns where we could have had Mining Inc. and Sushi. Don't like when play is being rushed.

I am rushed, Fred, and perhaps I should have just turned it over earlier. Would point out that I see nothing in your latest posts about Mining Inc. (other than Delphi courthouse). I just played one more turn. Discussion led me to think that we couldn't establish the corporations until expenses were better under control.

Just put the save up at central and noted that our score is still behind a bit but our power rating far exceeds the competition. Apparently others have not gone so all out to take over the world ASAP. Be interesting to see what's best strategy.

 

[leif erikson]

Great Progress CP!!

Capac and Joao vanquished, Wang Kon on the run and huge movement in tech progress!


Roster:
ShannonCT - UP
Frederiksberg - On Deck
PaulisKhan
leif
Cactus Pete - just played

Grover22 - Almost time for a set?
rrau - How are you doing?
DJMGator13 - Nice work on the spreadsheet.

Graphs are looking good.

 

[Frederiksberg]

I am rushed, Fred, and perhaps I should have just turned it over earlier.

Yes, I could sense this. It would have been better just to stop earlier at T132 - you had been playing an excellent set until this point. It takes quite a lot concentration to avoid mistakes.

Would point out that I see nothing in your latest posts about Mining Inc. (other than Delphi courthouse). I just played one more turn. Discussion led me to think that we couldn't establish the corporations until expenses were better under control.

We can construct Mining Inc ans Sushi in Akkad now so please do!! And lets get the coal mined outside Athens.

This was posted at T132 and now it's T134.

Just put the save up at central and noted that our score is still behind a bit but our power rating far exceeds the competition. Apparently others have not gone so all out to take over the world ASAP. Be interesting to see what's best strategy.

Yes, they seem to be improving infrastructure rather than increasing the number of cities. It's not easy to say which way is better.

I hope there will be more participation in the planning from all players. One problem is that our plans are quite fuzzy by now and we really need to improve on this and get a clear sense of direction. One important issue is where to spread corporations and another is how to get more resources for Mining Inc and Standard Ethanol. Would help if SCT joined the discussions again, he often has very detailed advice and ideas.

 

[leif erikson]

Yes, I could sense this. It would have been better just to stop earlier at T132 - you had been playing an excellent set until this point. It takes quite a lot concentration to avoid mistakes.

Not sure this is entirely helpful? I have been reading along and there have been discussions concerning pre-conditions for founding a corporation, such as Courthouse and, perhaps, a Bank. The maintenance costs of our conquests are quite high now and our ability to generate Gold appears to be falling as we conquer those we have traded with for Gold. Couple this with the need to keep research fast, and we have some work to do to figure out the best balance. I share the concern of keeping maintenance in check while trying to maintain research rate and conquest. CP made a decision and now we should move on and try to make the best of it. As you say here:

Yes, they seem to be improving infrastructure rather than increasing the number of cities. It's not easy to say which way is better.

We need to figure this out to assist the player on how it is best to proceed.

I hope there will be more participation in the planning from all players. One problem is that our plans are quite fuzzy by now and we really need to improve on this and get a clear sense of direction. One important issue is where to spread corporations and another is how to get more resources for Mining Inc and Standard Ethanol. Would help if SCT joined the discussions again, he often has very detailed advice and ideas.

For me, at least, this is new territory. Not sure what I can add that would be of value. I am reading with interest and will comment if I think something doesn't add up.

I do think we need a plan of which cities will have which corporations and how to deal with the maintenance costs. We also seem to need some cities producing wealth to keep ourselves going, although some short term Gold can be gained through conquest of cities. It may also be time to unload some cities to Justinian.

 

[Grover22]

Looking at the turn 134 save, and just wanted to make sure that you guys see Hammi's mace that's threatening the undefended Sippar. (Airships don't count as city defenders, right?)

 

[Cactus Pete]

Looking at the turn 134 save, and just wanted to make sure that you guys see Hammi's mace that's threatening the undefended Sippar. (Airships don't count as city defenders, right?)

Ham is toast this turn. He'll have no opportunity to move that mace.

"This was posted at T132 and now it's T134." My intention was to play out turn 133 and stop at the end of it (as that would have been my tenth turn). As I explained, while attempting to move an airship I somehow triggered the next turn. Critcism of an inadvertant mistake is not constructive and certainly not your usual style, Fred.

 

[PaulisKhan]

I want to apologise for not contributing more as well. If an excuse is acceptable, I have my PhD defense in 2 days and I'm in the process of moving to a new country.

I'm a little disappointed in my performance in this game so far, most of my suggestions have been wrong and/or misinformed. Once my thesis defense is over with I'll have a bit more time (more like energy) to devote to the game for a couple of weeks, I'll try to make up for it then.

We probably have <50 turns left to go in the game, let's make them the best turns possible.

-on topic- given how poorly movement speed scales on quick speed, we almost certainly need at least one airport devoted to transporting Corp executives to their destinations. Preferably somewhere hammer rich, that has most of its infrastructure in place already so that it can act as a dedicated executive pump.

 

[Frederiksberg]

I want to apologise for not contributing more as well. If an excuse is acceptable, I have my PhD defense in 2 days and I'm in the process of moving to a new country.

I know very well how time consuming the last phase of a PhD project can be . Best of luck with you defense

We probably have <50 turns left to go in the game, let's make them the best turns possible.

Sure, let's finish this in style. We should have a decent shot at a laurel of some kind. I hope that SCT will return to the game soon.

-on topic- given how poorly movement speed scales on quick speed, we almost certainly need at least one airport devoted to transporting Corp executives to their destinations. Preferably somewhere hammer rich, that has most of its infrastructure in place already so that it can act as a dedicated executive pump.

Yes, CP was right in building a second airport and we may need a third one. Perhaps further south? Ephesus is a possibility.

 

[Grover22]

I also hope that SCT will return soon. He was still alive when I last saw him.

I will try to step up my own participation in this game. I could use a refresher course in where we stand, so I'm going to ask some pretty basic questions. I hope you don't mind.

Warfare
We are currently at war with Hammi and with Wang.

CP says that we'll finish Hammi off this turn. That requires that our paratroopers currently around the city go 4-for-4 against the defenders (right?), but I guess that's pretty likely.

What is our objective versus Wang? Are we looking to eliminate him from the game, or are we only hoping to capture some key cities? If we're only looking to cherry-pick some of Wang's cities, which ones are we going to take? And are we going to vassalize the remainder of his empire?

That settler we have south of Inchon is a brave soul. He wants to found a city one west of where he currently is? Will he have to wait for a city defender to join him or for peace with Wang?

We're thinking of sending troops to Africa, and starting a war with Shaka and his vassal HC, too? Has it been decided that Shaka's cities are worth more to us that Stalin's? I believe there was a difference of opinion on that issue. I think another question is whether we need any more cities after we're done with Wang. I know we're researching another tech path, but we're pretty close now to Rocketry (5 turns of research?), and at some point, we'll be better off dedicating ourselves to the space race rather than capturing more cities. Has someone actually calculated that starting another war and taking more cities will benefit us? Perhaps it's obvious to all of you, but I'd like to see at least a back-of-the-envelope calculation.

Corporations and Wonders
We'll use just one city for all our corporate headquarters, and we'll build Wall Street there, too, right? Fred seems to argue that that city should be Delphi, but we have a GE and a GM in Akkad now, and Akkad also has the Temple of Solomon. Why is Delphi so much better?

We'll get Mining Inc for sure. Have we decided on Sushi over Cereal Mills? If so, why? Mousing over those two corps in the advisor screen shows that they'd currently yield the same food bonus for our cities, that Sushi would cost a little more, and that Sushi would also generate some (probably) unwanted culture. Are we expecting to acquire more Sushi resources than Cereal Mills resources in the future?

Standard Ethanol was also mentioned. Has it been calculated that the extra beakers it would generate are worth the increased maintenance costs?

Civics
I assume we'll wait for a golden age before switching civics. Where are we hoping to end up, eventually, and will there be any rest stops along the way?

Tech Path
What is our tech path going forward?

Alright, those are the big questions I have. Sorry if all of this is old news to most of you. I'll make an effort to stay more active. My work schedule has eased up a bit for the summer, and the next few weekends should be more or less my own again.

Cheers,
G22

 

[ShannonCT]

XTeam

Very sorry for my disappearance. Life has been very hectic in the last couple weeks. After vacation, I had a crush of work while trying to take care of a flu-stricken wife. Now the flood has become a trickle. I should have no problem getting caught up with reading the thread in the next couple days, and will resume my regular contribution to the game. I'll have a plan posted by tomorrow evening.

 

[leif erikson]

XTeam

Very sorry for my disappearance. Life has been very hectic in the last couple weeks. After vacation, I had a crush of work while trying to take care of a flu-stricken wife. Now the flood has become a trickle. I should have no problem getting caught up with reading the thread in the next couple days, and will resume my regular contribution to the game. I'll have a plan posted by tomorrow evening.

Nice to see you back SCT.

Sorry to hear of your wife and hope she has recovered.

Please take the time you need to get organized. So much going on and RL can't be avoided.
Hope the vacation was fun (sounded like it), getting back into the swing can be a PITA!

 

[Cactus Pete]

Apparently a hectic time for many team members. Next play.

Good to have you back, SCT. Curious if your wife had H1N1?

 

[PaulisKhan]

Acute H1N1?

 

[Frederiksberg]

I also hope that SCT will return soon. He was still alive when I last saw him.

So you were not involved in his disappearance .

I will try to step up my own participation in this game. I could use a refresher course in where we stand, so I'm going to ask some pretty basic questions. I hope you don't mind.

Appreciate your input.

What is our objective versus Wang? Are we looking to eliminate him from the game, or are we only hoping to capture some key cities? If we're only looking to cherry-pick some of Wang's cities, which ones are we going to take? And are we going to vassalize the remainder of his empire?

This issue hasn't really been discussed yet. I think we want the big eastern Korean cities. They have forests and grassland and should be good for some production. The small plains cities in western Korea doesn't look interesting. I don't think we need to vassalize since Wang has few resources we want. The exception would be if his culture would put one of our captured cities in danger of flipping or without enough tiles to be functioning properly.

That settler we have south of Inchon is a brave soul. He wants to found a city one west of where he currently is? Will he have to wait for a city defender to join him or for peace with Wang?

I think he waits for an airship to scout the hills so that he can move safely forward. We don't need defenders there unless we decide to keep the city because when we liberate Justinian will get two free rifles there for defense.

We're thinking of sending troops to Africa, and starting a war with Shaka and his vassal HC, too? Has it been decided that Shaka's cities are worth more to us that Stalin's? I believe there was a difference of opinion on that issue. I think another question is whether we need any more cities after we're done with Wang.

We have used a lot of hammers to build a large army so it's important to keep it busy getting some return on the investment. With 35 paratroopers and more coming out of Argos it should be possible to go after both Shaka and Stalin.

I know we're researching another tech path, but we're pretty close now to Rocketry (5 turns of research?), and at some point, we'll be better off dedicating ourselves to the space race rather than capturing more cities. Has someone actually calculated that starting another war and taking more cities will benefit us? Perhaps it's obvious to all of you, but I'd like to see at least a back-of-the-envelope calculation.

As long as we are not close to the domination limit we should keep capturing more cities to gain gold and resources for Mining Inc. and Standard Ethanol.

Corporations and Wonders
We'll use just one city for all our corporate headquarters, and we'll build Wall Street there, too, right? Fred seems to argue that that city should be Delphi, but we have a GE and a GM in Akkad now, and Akkad also has the Temple of Solomon. Why is Delphi so much better?

I think there is some mix up between corporate HQ and corporate branch here. The HQ's should go in Akkad since this is where we are planning to build Wall Street. What I was arguing is that Delphi is well suited for a branch of Mining Inc because it's small and corporate maintenance is thus lower while the gain in terms of hammers is the same as in any other city.

We'll get Mining Inc for sure. Have we decided on Sushi over Cereal Mills? If so, why? Mousing over those two corps in the advisor screen shows that they'd currently yield the same food bonus for our cities, that Sushi would cost a little more, and that Sushi would also generate some (probably) unwanted culture. Are we expecting to acquire more Sushi resources than Cereal Mills resources in the future?

Cereal Mills is more profitable than Sushi, but it requires an extra tech that we could otherwise choose to skip. The profitability of the food corporations is not very high in many cities so my guess is that we can't get the extra beakers invested back. Haven't made any calculation of this though. Sushi will be good in our GP farm (Babylon) and also in Sippar and Corinth. In the remaining cities we would have to do more precise calculations to determine if we want it.

Standard Ethanol was also mentioned. Has it been calculated that the extra beakers it would generate are worth the increased maintenance costs?

Yes, it's more profitable than any of the other Corporations considered because you get 2 beakers per resource (only 1 hammer for Mining Inc. 0.5 food for Sushi) while maintenance cost per resource is the same for all corporations. The only concern was if there was time to regain the investment given that it will come later (requires 3 techs after Assembly Line).

Civics
I assume we'll wait for a golden age before switching civics. Where are we hoping to end up, eventually, and will there be any rest stops along the way?

We want to switch to Free Market at some point when the extra corporate maintenance (50% compared to Environmentalism) exceeds the extra gold gained from windmills.

Tech Path
What is our tech path going forward?

My suggestion is Assembly Line - Industrialism - Combustion - Plastics in order to found Standard Ethanol soon and perhaps also build the 3 Gorges.