SGOTM 09 - Xteam

[Frederiksberg]

I made a mental note of the forest spreading idea . And please help us remember when we start planning where to put the forest preserves. Maybe we could already now make a map of where to put the FP's in our first 3 cities: Athens, Sparta (3N) and Marble City?

 

[ShannonCT]

CP, please see this post in the maintenance thread concerning Barbs.

I PM'ed Alan and Gyathaar responded to your concern. Hope the answer is satisfactory.

So I guess that barb galley was either built in the barb city, or it spawned from the fog somewhere. Does that mean several AI have researched Sailing already? Maybe a race for GLH?

Gyathaar says barbs were given no techs and no units. So the only thing left is to give them cities, and buildings in those cities. It's pretty clear the barb city to our SE was given a culture producing building or some free culture. What else could that city have been given to make it meaner? Barracks? Maybe it has the only iron in the area?

 

[Frederiksberg]

I think I'm ready to continue through BW, with the decision to build a settler at Pop2 (next turn) to settle 3N of the capital. Since that city doesn't need any land tile improvements, it doesn't make much sense to build a second worker before the settler.

So the plan for the next few turns:

Research BW
Grow to Pop2 and work lake
Farm second corn, and work corn farm when completed
Start windmill after corn farm
Don't expose the scout on open terrain

Yes, I think you can do that. Haven't had time to redo test and compare with CP's 1960 BC save, but I'm pretty confident that it's at least not worse than his approach and I know for sure that we can found a 3rd city on marble and build Oracle no later than turn 43 with this approach.

 

[ShannonCT]

Yes, I think you can do that. Haven't had time to redo test and compare with CP's 1960 BC save, but I'm pretty confident that it's at least not worse than his approach and I know for sure that we can found a 3rd city on marble and build Oracle no later than turn 43 with this approach.

If you're getting Oracle by T43 and with 12 pop total, that's better than anything I was able to do with second worker first. How are you using the marble to speed up Oracle? Are you building roads to that city?

 

[Frederiksberg]

So I guess that barb galley was either built in the barb city, or it spawned from the fog somewhere. Does that mean several AI have researched Sailing already? Maybe a race for GLH?

Gyathaar says barbs were given no techs and no units. So the only thing left is to give them cities, and buildings in those cities. It's pretty clear the barb city to our SE was given a culture producing building or some free culture. What else could that city have been given to make it meaner? Barracks? Maybe it has the only iron in the area?

It's surprising that the barbs already have Sailing. I guess there must be many AI starting with Fishing in this game. Does that tell us something about the possible opponents? Toku starts with fishing and so do we. Who else?

 

[Frederiksberg]

If you're getting Oracle by T43 and with 12 pop total, that's better than anything I was able to do with second worker first. How are you using the marble to speed up Oracle? Are you building roads to that city?

Yes, the Oracle was started a few turns before the road is finished. I think I used all 5 workers to build the road fast. (Wheel was postponed to after Priesthood). Only one chop went into Oracle. There is probably room for improvement .

EDIT: I did little chopping because I needed worker turns for making tile improvements and I think this strategy makes sense because the improvements are very strong and the chopping not all that powerful before Math.

 

[leif erikson]

Plan sounds good SCT.

Since Gyathaar states that he did not give any free units to the Barbs, then it says that some of our opponent, indeed, have Sailing! I expect that the Barb city may have a number of improvements and he could have added pop and tile improvements as well, making it productive. If he can't give them additional techs, then they can't have Iron Working yet to see the Iron. Perhaps we might consider an early Air Ship to scout that area, and, if needed, to give that Barb galley a going over?

 

[ShannonCT]

Turn Report for turns 15 - 22 (3100BC - 2680BC)

T15) Athens Pop2, work lake and start settler
Worker start north corn farm
Scout W-N

T16) Scout SW-W

T17) Scout SW

T18) Scout SE
Change Athens to work second corn

T19) Scout NE-S

T20) Hinduism FIDL
Scout SE-S

T21) Scout SE

T22) BW->Myst (no revolt yet)
Copper pops up at the site where we were going to found our second city!
Athens settler->worker
Scout SE
We meet Joao's archer in the jungle

Save is up on the GOTM server.

Turn Log:

Spoiler :

Turn 1, 3940 BC: Athens has been founded.

Turn 2, 3880 BC: The borders of Athens have expanded!

Turn 6, 3640 BC: You have discovered Agriculture!
Turn 6, 3640 BC: Buddhism has been founded in a distant land!

Turn 9, 3460 BC: Barbarian's Wolf (1.00) vs Pericles'sScout (2.70)
Turn 9, 3460 BC: Combat Odds: 0.1%
Turn 9, 3460 BC: (Animal Combat: +20%)
Turn 9, 3460 BC: (Plot Defense: +50%)
Turn 9, 3460 BC: (Class Animal Combat: +100%)
Turn 9, 3460 BC: Barbarian's Wolf is hit for 31 (69/100HP)
Turn 9, 3460 BC: Pericles's Scout is hit for 12 (88/100HP)
Turn 9, 3460 BC: Barbarian's Wolf is hit for 31 (38/100HP)
Turn 9, 3460 BC: Pericles's Scout is hit for 12 (76/100HP)
Turn 9, 3460 BC: Barbarian's Wolf is hit for 31 (7/100HP)
Turn 9, 3460 BC: Barbarian's Wolf is hit for 31 (0/100HP)
Turn 9, 3460 BC: Pericles's Scout has defeated Barbarian's Wolf!

Turn 11, 3340 BC: You have discovered Mining!

Turn 13, 3220 BC: The borders of Athens have expanded!

Turn 19, 2860 BC: Hinduism has been founded in a distant land!

Turn 21, 2740 BC: You have discovered Bronze Working!
Turn 21, 2740 BC: You have discovered a source of Copper near Athens!
Turn 21, 2740 BC: You have trained a Settler in Athens. Work has now begun on a Warrior.

 

[Grover22]

I see you're windmilling the eastern hill first. In my practices, I milled the hill 1N of our capital first, because that could be shared by the second city (3N of the capital). And I let that second city work the windmill immediately after it was founded to give it growth in 7 turns and a workboat in 7 turns. (In my practices, I worked a forest 2f/1h after BizarroAthens grew to size 2, letting the warrior finish and growth to size 3 and the second corn farm finish all happen in 3 turns after size 2. Then I reallocated worked tiles and started a settler without building another worker first.)

I guess we're not founding city two on the copper that showed up there, anyway, though. Do we go one east of the copper?

 

[Grover22]

And for the record, I was getting the Oracle movie playing in between turns 43 and 44 in my practices. I don't know what turn you guys count that as.

I founded the third city on the marble and chopped two forests for oracle. Two more forests went down to provide watermills for BizarroAthens. I think my total population for three cities was 10 when the oracle came in, so I wasn't able to beat you experts. I meant to try a few more tweaks this morning, but I was too late.

I did not research wheel or AH in my practices until after priesthood, so again, it sounds like you guys were better.

G22

 

[Cactus Pete]

" Alan and Gyathaar responded to your concern. Hope the answer is satisfactory." Yes it is. At least now Civ logic can be applied. Wonder what kind of island city-state on a hill the "barbarians" have built.

Looks good, SCT. I'll check the save tonight and post. Is a test from here in the works?

 

[ShannonCT]

Here's the new practice save with copper added and Suryvarman removed. It's possible that there are moe AI on our continent, but I didn't want us to be getting research boni in the practice game that we wouldn't be getting in the real game.

I didn't bother editting the map in the south, since we won't be settling there soon.

 

[ShannonCT]

I see you're windmilling the eastern hill first. In my practices, I milled the hill 1N of our capital first, because that could be shared by the second city (3N of the capital). And I let that second city work the windmill immediately after it was founded to give it growth in 7 turns and a workboat in 7 turns. (In my practices, I worked a forest 2f/1h after BizarroAthens grew to size 2, letting the warrior finish and growth to size 3 and the second corn farm finish all happen in 3 turns after size 2. Then I reallocated worked tiles and started a settler without building another worker first.)

I guess we're not founding city two on the copper that showed up there, anyway, though. Do we go one east of the copper?

I had been whipping the workboat in my practice games, using the corn at Pop1. Windmilling the other hill first would have been a better general practice. But now it's a moot point, because I think we want to settle 1E of the copper.

 

[Frederiksberg]

Here's the new practice save with copper added and Suryvarman removed. It's possible that there are more AI on our continent, but I didn't want us to be getting research boni in the practice game that we wouldn't be getting in the real game.

I didn't bother editing the map in the south, since we won't be settling there soon.

Excellent. I will start playing with it. Settling 1E of copper seems reasonable now. We loose a turn and a forest, but I think the long term use of the copper will more than compensate us.

I'm leaving for Paris on April 6 so I plan to post a plan no later than Friday and play sometime during the weekend.

 

[ShannonCT]

And for the record, I was getting the Oracle movie playing in between turns 43 and 44 in my practices. I don't know what turn you guys count that as.

The turnlog will count that as turn 43, because builds complete at the end of a turn. I found several games with these settings where AI completed Oracle on turn 44, that is, after the end of our turn 44. Now it seems we should be able to beat that comfortably. We could probably get it by turn 40, though with some trade-offs.

 

[leif erikson]

Nice start SCT!

Like seeing that copper close by too!

Roster:
Frederiksberg - UP
PaulisKhan - On Deck
rrau
Cactus Pete
DJMGator13
leif
ShannonCT - Facing lions and tigers and bears...

Grover22 - Keeping a close eye!

EDIT - Looks like a good time to change civics. We can change to Police State, Slavery and Environmentalism all for 1-turn of revolt.

Placing the city east of the copper looks OK. A lot of water...
There is also a blue circle west and NW of the copper. Wonder if anything is interesting up there besides the Sheep?

Meeting Joao to the south, should we consider REX down there after Marble City?

 

[Cactus Pete]

"It's surprising that the barbs already have Sailing. I guess there must be many AI starting with Fishing in this game. Does that tell us something about the possible opponents? Toku starts with fishing and so do we. Who else?" Good question, and what are the Portuguese personality traits?

I can get the Oracle built in the Marble city, freeing other two cities to build other things (e.g. airship and settler). Requires some marble-enhanced chopping, but it's an option to be considered. Will post save late tonight after I replay and try to optimize.

 

[leif erikson]

Good question, and what are the Portuguese personality traits?

Joao is Expansive (+2 health in city, 25% faster Worker production and Double production speed of Granary and Harbor) and Imperialistic (+100% Great General emergence and +50 faster production of Settler). The Portuguese start with Fishing and Mining. UU is Carrack, replaces Caravel and carries two units and UB is Feitoria which replces Customs House. Joao's favorite civic is Hereditary Rule.

I can get the Oracle built in the Marble city, freeing other two cities to build other things (e.g. airship and settler). Requires some marble-enhanced chopping, but it's an option to be considered. Will post save late tonight after I replay and try to optimize.

Sounds good. Looking forward to having a look.

 

[ShannonCT]

Joao is Expansive (+2 health in city, 25% faster Worker production and Double production speed of Granary and Harbor) and Imperialistic (+100% Great General emergence and +50 faster production of Settler). The Portuguese start with Fishing and Mining. UU is Carrack, replaces Caravel and carries two units and UB is Feitoria which replces Customs House. Joao's favorite civic is Hereditary Rule.

Also:
He won't declare war at Pleased or Friendly
Will trade non-monopoly techs at Cautious
Will trade monopoly techs at +15
Considers a tech monopoly if known by less than 40% of civs
Will open borders at Cautious or higher
Will trade maps at Friendly only
Builds wonders "sometimes"
Below average unit numbers
High espionage spending
Medium refuse-to-talk delay
Gives up to +3 relations for favorite civic and +3 for same religion

 

[PaulisKhan]

The portugese rex amazingly well, we'll probably have to do some blocking to keep them out of our land.