SGOTM 10 - klarius

[AlanH]

Welcome to your SGOTM 10 team thread. Please use it for all internal team communication, turn logs and discussions. Subscribe to it to receive notifications, and do not visit the other team threads for this game until you have finished. Please also subscribe to the Maintenance Thread for this game here, where teams and staff may post non-spoiler information of general interest. I hope you enjoy the game.

The starting saves will become available on the SGOTM Progress and Results page on May 7th, at midnight, server local time.

Thanks again to Gyathaar for coming up with the variant and developing the map.

You are Elizabeth of England, and your mission is simply to destroy the barbarians, who have evolved considerably in this game, having learnt a few tricks from their cousins in Civ4. They have advanced weaponry, they can build cities, and they have an uncanny capability to learn new technologies.

All victory conditions are switched on, but the winning team will be the one that achieves the destruction of the barbarian nation earliest.

Here's the start.

Map Parameters
Playable Civ - England
Opponents - Six: Mayans, Byzantines, Dutch, Inca, Sumerians, Barbarians.
World size - Standard
Difficulty - Emperor
Landform - Mystery
Barbarians - Non-standard

The map is handbuilt, and therefore may not have a standard configuration.

Game mods:
The game uses the default rules as defined in the SGOTM Reference Thread, with the following modifications:

- Galleys can never enter ocean tiles.
- There are some unusual advanced/modified Barbarian units.
- The Barbarians have research capabilities, and can build cities and wonders.

The SGOTM Mediterranean resources are included, as you can see from the starting screenshot. If you have played SGOTM 9 then you will be ready. Other players will need to download and unzip this small graphics mod pack. Details are provided in the SGOTM Reference Thread..

Please ensure that you have incuded the line: NoAIPatrol=0 in your conquests.ini text file.

Please visit the following links to ensure that you are adequately prepared, skipping references to PtW or Vanilla versions of Civ3.

The GOTM Reference Thread.
The SGOTM Reference Thread.

Notes:

A. ONLY Conquests version 1.22 (C3C) is supported for this SGOTM. All teams will compete for a single award.

B. All teams must play the sponsored variant - the laurels will be awarded for the fastest destruction of the Barbarian Nation. The wooden spoons will go to the team with the lowest final score.

C. You MUST play from the start file assigned to your team. All saved game files uploaded to the server are parsed through software that extracts and archives data about your save, including reload count for each turn set.

Have fun

 

[Ronald]

sign in
I'm rusty with the mediterranian specialties. Who can post them?

Ronald

 

[Own]

Checking in.

 

[Northern Pike]

Checking in.

I'm rusty with the mediterranian specialties. Who can post them?

All this means, I think, is that goats and olives and so forth will appear as resources, as in SGOTM9.

 

[klarius]

Checking in .

Thanks everybody for pulling the team together while I was away.

 

[Ronald]

Checking in.
All this means, I think, is that goats and olives and so forth will appear as resources, as in SGOTM9.

I know, what I meant is, that I can't remember the values (food, shield, trade) of these resources (normal, when irrigated, when mined, under despotism, monarchy and republic). Has anybody a table for them?

 

[klarius]

Mediterranean resources (if you installed the SGOTM mod you will find the bonus values in the civilopedia):

Thread

• Lambs: bonus; +2 food (found on Hills and Plains)
• Sheep: bonus; +2 food +1 shield (found on Hills and Plains)
• Wool: luxury; +2 food +1 shield + 1 commerce (found on Hills and Plains)
• Oysters: bonus; +2 food + 1 commerce (found in Coast)
• Pearls: bonus; +2 food + 3 commerce (found in Coast)
• Coastal Rocks: bonus; +1 shield + 1 commerce (found in Coast)
• Goats: bonus; +2 food +1 shield (found on Desert, Hills, Mtns)
• Menudo (young goats): bonus; +2 food (found on Desert, Hills, Mtns)
• Olives: bonus; +2 food +1 commerce (found on Desert, Hills, Mtns)
• Cotton: luxury; +1 shield +2 commerce (found on Desert and Plains)

All new food resources are +2. So you irrigate them on plains in despotism. Mine in other places.
One special thing is goats in desert. You can gain no shields or food in despotism (they are already +2 +2) so just road them early.
.

 

[Offa]

Hello everyone.

 

[Own]

Should we start discussion? I think this should be treated like a NOW (one AW opponent in the beginning) in the early stages. The barbs aren't already preparing for war, so we can do some non mil building.

 

[Offa]

I don't believe the barbarians will be reachable without ocean travel, or surely our world builders would be risking a team winning too early. Therefore rapid science appears the key to the game. At least galleys can't enter the ocean so complicated suicide ship invasion strategies can't work.

 

[Crakie]

Hideliho neighborinos!

Did you guys play Gyathaar's Warlord COTM? I did, but never got to finish it. There, agricultural civs on completely desert lands (plains to them) were used as a buffer between the player and lavish green lands. The number of agricultural civs this time may indicate a similar map configuration. I'll also note that Ainwood has been editing AI starting positions. That is, they started with a couple of cities at 4000 BC, just so they got a quick start.

The galley restriction also supports this idea: Gyathaar doesn't want us to be able to get to the barbs, who'll be far away on an island that we can find only by curraghs (that cannot transport troops) before navigation/magnetism.

I suspect we'll need to focus on our AA+MA research pace.

EDIT: X-post with Offa

 

[Own]

Ok, that's a little bit of a gamble, incase they're on our continent, but I'll go with it. We have a four turn settler factory if we move {edit: NE} to get xtra BG. Then farmers gambit I guess while researching for republic sling, then lit, and surge ahead in science??

 

[klarius]

Looking at the start position, there are several ways to go:

• Settle in place, it's already a 4-turner at size 5-6. But the position is shield poor - food rich in the long run.
• Settle NE. 2nd BG lets factory run at 4-5. Difficult to get irrigation to the game. Still generally nicer position with more production later.
• Forfeit coastal capital and settle E or preferred 2 SE. Faster growth, much more production later. Gives up coastal bonus, but gets many river tiles instead.

For a true farmer's gambit I would go 2 SE.
If we want to scout a little, I would go NE and build warrior-curragh-granary.

 

[Own]

NE makes it very hard to irrigate game as you said, we'd have to irrigate then mine the BG, so I'd go two SE. But OTOH, that's giving up lots of food on the coast. So I'd settle in place, and settler factory at higher pop is allright, just may be hard on the lux slider early on.

Tons of workers. Maybe even a wrker factory city.

 

[Ronald]

I don't believe the barbarians will be reachable without ocean travel, or surely our world builders would be risking a team winning too early. Therefore rapid science appears the key to the game. At least galleys can't enter the ocean so complicated suicide ship invasion strategies can't work.

I think you are right. It is another game where fast science will be the key. Since we only have to fight the barbarians and nobody else, we should explore as much as quickly as possible to reduce science costs and find trading partners.
Keeping that in mind, I would opt for 1NE: warrior, curragh, granary

@klarius: Thanks for posting the mediterranian resources

Galleys can't enter the ocean, should we ask if curraghs can enter the ocean or should we simply wait and find out ourselves?

 

[klarius]

But OTOH, that's giving up lots of food on the coast.

The coastal bonuses don't help anything in despotism. By the time we hopefully make the republic slingshot (goal is around 1400), we can have other cities working these tiles.

@Ronald, we probably can find out ourselves. Seafaring curraghs are anyways very useful for scouting, so we should build some.

 

[Crakie]

I don't think we should move off the coast, not for the despotism penalized coastal bonuses as Klarius said, but for getting that curragh out early to help the techpace as Ronald said. In addition we don't know the size of our landmass - no clues given in that respect. If it's pretty small, the seafaring coastal bonus may become highly relevant.

That leaves settling on the spot or 1 NE. The latter is the better spot in the long run, but probably delays the first settler a bit... still worthwhile? Maybe a spreadheet can tell us something about the delay?

 

[Own]

England starts with pot and alpha, right? Then writing at max first. Crakie's right, curragh's are needed.

 

[Northern Pike]

By a quick count, it would take 56 worker-turns to get a capital on the starting location fully set up as a 5-6 4-turn settler factory, and 53 worker-turns to establish a capital 1 NE as a 4-5 4-turn factory. That would seem to be an argument for the site 1 NE, but if we do it that way we'll lose at least sixteen turns in getting the BG 1 SE mined, and that's assuming that we set about getting the game forest chopped and irrigated before anything else, which might not be optimal. There's also the factor that for the first ten turns, we'd be at 3 spt with a city on the starting point (warrior and curragh built in nine turns) and at 2 spt with a city 1 NE (warrior and curragh built in thirteen turns). Intuitively, this seems to me like too great a sacrifice of early production when the starting site is quite acceptable, but if anyone wants to take the analysis of what we'd be producing when in each case further, I'd be glad to see it.

Fog-gazing issues come into this, however. If anyone thinks that what's semi-visible 3 NE is a special resource and not just woods on a plain, speak up.

I'm reasonably certain that we shouldn't settle 2 SE. We'll want to cram in as many river cities as possible, and that implies one town at the mouth of the river and another 1 S or 1 SE of the wheat. Yes, I think about city spacing like an AW player. Making the river city three tiles from the starting point our capital would be a reasonable choice, but might delay the curragh too long, as has been said.

 

[Own]

If anyone thinks that what's semi-visible 3 NE is a special resource and not just woods on a plain, speak up.

Looks like Sugar. I don't see anything else through the fog.