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SGOTM 10 - One Short Straw
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
Having a look now ... sorry for lack of reply, but it was soccer time this evening 
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
North of Moscow: you are planning on mining before roading right?
About the western LB... It would suck to loose one city again, I would play it safe, ie at least keeping the loaded galley in reach of Novgorod to avoid any drama.
Demands: well if it's resource give in and cancel 10 turns later... if it's a tech, need to be debated... we aren't capable of defending currently. OBs, reject I think.
EPs should be circled to see demographics of all AIs no? we won't use them offensively for quite some time...
Trades: I hate trading for only one tech. though there is no reason to tech GP if some AIs have it. I would wait to actually start it to see if more trades are opened. Might be wrong on the correct trading policy though
About the western LB... It would suck to loose one city again, I would play it safe, ie at least keeping the loaded galley in reach of Novgorod to avoid any drama.
Demands: well if it's resource give in and cancel 10 turns later... if it's a tech, need to be debated... we aren't capable of defending currently. OBs, reject I think.
EPs should be circled to see demographics of all AIs no? we won't use them offensively for quite some time...
Trades: I hate trading for only one tech. though there is no reason to tech GP if some AIs have it. I would wait to actually start it to see if more trades are opened. Might be wrong on the correct trading policy though
I'll look into mining iron first. I was looking to cut down on worker move turns, but hooking up iron earlier is better.
Novgorod: Yes, I'm unsure about that, too. Should we send an extra unit west, though? I think it would be good long-term, if it helps fogbust an extra site, but we could also put a rush order on university...
I'd like to deny a tech demand, but we probably have to give in at this point. We don't wanna be defending any time soon.
Trading: this is a bizarre game for Emp in that we're already dominating in tech (and, despite losing a city, in expansion). The tech gap should get wider after Rep... I suspect there won't be any rush to trade during my set, so maybe the point is moot.
Novgorod: Yes, I'm unsure about that, too. Should we send an extra unit west, though? I think it would be good long-term, if it helps fogbust an extra site, but we could also put a rush order on university...
I'd like to deny a tech demand, but we probably have to give in at this point. We don't wanna be defending any time soon.
Trading: this is a bizarre game for Emp in that we're already dominating in tech (and, despite losing a city, in expansion). The tech gap should get wider after Rep... I suspect there won't be any rush to trade during my set, so maybe the point is moot.
Played 6-7t. Had to take an hour break for RL stuff, so I saved and uploaded. Nothing interesting... Got lucky with a galley confrontation. Mao's got gunpowder as of this turn. Will continue in an hour or so.
Spoiler :
Done. Save's uploaded.
Good news: everything basically according to plan. Shaved 2t from Lib with some tile switching here and there. Yaro got auto-spread, but I left the missionary on in St Pete - I figure we can use OR in Novgorod soon. Also, we're somehow still second in score.
Bad news...
And worse...
We're also losing ground on the ivory SW of St. Pete, but very slowly (still at high 60's).
Mao teched GP, Roos and Gandhi got Edu a few turns before our Lib. So, no trading for GP, as Mao hates our guts. The west continent ain't so much a continent...
Autolog...
The GS is parked in St. Pete.
I guess either shyuhe or mdy is up now.
Good news: everything basically according to plan. Shaved 2t from Lib with some tile switching here and there. Yaro got auto-spread, but I left the missionary on in St Pete - I figure we can use OR in Novgorod soon. Also, we're somehow still second in score.
Bad news...
Spoiler :
And worse...
Spoiler :
We're also losing ground on the ivory SW of St. Pete, but very slowly (still at high 60's).
Mao teched GP, Roos and Gandhi got Edu a few turns before our Lib. So, no trading for GP, as Mao hates our guts. The west continent ain't so much a continent...
Spoiler :
Autolog...
Spoiler :
The GS is parked in St. Pete.
I guess either shyuhe or mdy is up now.
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
Looking good... but some random comments:
Novgorod: I think remaining grass should be all farmed for growth. current food surplus is only +2 (and there are still plain hills to work later).
St Pet could use the new farm near Moscow to grow faster, Moscow is currently working only good tiles so don't need it (while St Pet is working water).
How many speacilists will we grow in St Pet btw? I can't remember if team consensus is to go with two GP farms or only Yaro...
Western island looks worth settling to me...
trireme: what is it for? barbs I suppose... so which boat is to meet the other dudes? IMO this is a priority, more than knowing where barbs cities are... please imagine a new trading partner as a Oxford university, it doubles your science...
sorry this post is a mess... but no time to organize it better
edit: I think it's mdy's turn (then mine then shyuhe again)
Novgorod: I think remaining grass should be all farmed for growth. current food surplus is only +2 (and there are still plain hills to work later).
St Pet could use the new farm near Moscow to grow faster, Moscow is currently working only good tiles so don't need it (while St Pet is working water).
How many speacilists will we grow in St Pet btw? I can't remember if team consensus is to go with two GP farms or only Yaro...
Western island looks worth settling to me...
trireme: what is it for? barbs I suppose... so which boat is to meet the other dudes? IMO this is a priority, more than knowing where barbs cities are... please imagine a new trading partner as a Oxford university, it doubles your science...
sorry this post is a mess... but no time to organize it better
edit: I think it's mdy's turn (then mine then shyuhe again)
I agree with framing Novogrod but would fire the artist for an engineer. We won't be able to take back the outer tiles, and we should be able to keep the inner ones without it.
In the short term St Pete is our primary GP farm, in The longer term Yaroslav will overtake it, but we may as well keep St Pete as a secondary one, if only for the extra science from the specialists.
I think the trieme should be used to prevent any further barb incursions. The galley to the west can be used for exploring the islands, and the one to the east used to transport our next settler. Where do we settle next? The only available sites are islands which we can't settle without adequate barb defense which we don't have. Perhaps we should delay it while building the university in Moscow?
How does this work, we have no trade routes so the only benefits are possible tech trades, and discounts due to other AI's also having a tech, which is much less than doubling our science.
I will try to post a more detailed plan later today.
In the short term St Pete is our primary GP farm, in The longer term Yaroslav will overtake it, but we may as well keep St Pete as a secondary one, if only for the extra science from the specialists.
I think the trieme should be used to prevent any further barb incursions. The galley to the west can be used for exploring the islands, and the one to the east used to transport our next settler. Where do we settle next? The only available sites are islands which we can't settle without adequate barb defense which we don't have. Perhaps we should delay it while building the university in Moscow?
How does this work, we have no trade routes so the only benefits are possible tech trades, and discounts due to other AI's also having a tech, which is much less than doubling our science.
I will try to post a more detailed plan later today.
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
About trading: yeah i exagerated as always... but still I believe that's more a priority than anything else we can do with boats. So one should go toward the unmet AIs now imo.
I agree about the rest of your post, specially about the delay untill next settler. We need troops and unis
I agree about the rest of your post, specially about the delay untill next settler. We need troops and unis
shyuhe
Deity
I think it's better to make contacts with oversea AIs as soon as possible. Everything looks like it's holding up ok. I'd use the trireme to stop more barb incursions and try to settle the west. We need to be careful though, as there may be a coastal route connecting our western holdings with the barb continent, which won't be pretty.
And I don't understand how we're still second in score after our little mishap... I'll look at the save later tonight and post more comments. I agree on waiting for settlers until we get a few LBs out so that we can avoid giving out more freebie cities to those stupid barbs.
Gandhi's city is already 20% so I wouldn't bother fighting its culture, although we should try to hurry and settle the sheep/copper/cow (we can fight for it) site.
And I don't understand how we're still second in score after our little mishap... I'll look at the save later tonight and post more comments. I agree on waiting for settlers until we get a few LBs out so that we can avoid giving out more freebie cities to those stupid barbs.
Gandhi's city is already 20% so I wouldn't bother fighting its culture, although we should try to hurry and settle the sheep/copper/cow (we can fight for it) site.
St. Pete: stuck at health cap briefly, then happy cap. This should increase with Rep.
Novgorod: yep, I was planning to chain irrigate the remaining grass. I went 2 shops + chop for now to boost its production going into lib/uni. We're not winning back the tiles, no. I should've fired the artist a few turns ago, I just forgot to.
Units: We're really stretched thin atm. Could use a few more ships and barb defenders right now. The trireme was meant to go somewhere east of Moscow and patrol for barb galleys. The other two galleys are stuck out at sea now. I'm not sure how we're meeting the other AI's. I was gonna leave the explorer somewhere and come back for a settler for the west island, as we have an extra LB in Novgorod now, but I think you guys are probably right and we should hold off a bit on settling.
The next set should definitely prioritize universities.
EDIT: I don't think there was really a consensus on GP farming. I figure we can still squeeze one out of St. Pete before Yaro takes over, but I'm not sure about the math involved.
Novgorod: yep, I was planning to chain irrigate the remaining grass. I went 2 shops + chop for now to boost its production going into lib/uni. We're not winning back the tiles, no. I should've fired the artist a few turns ago, I just forgot to.
Units: We're really stretched thin atm. Could use a few more ships and barb defenders right now. The trireme was meant to go somewhere east of Moscow and patrol for barb galleys. The other two galleys are stuck out at sea now. I'm not sure how we're meeting the other AI's. I was gonna leave the explorer somewhere and come back for a settler for the west island, as we have an extra LB in Novgorod now, but I think you guys are probably right and we should hold off a bit on settling.
The next set should definitely prioritize universities.
EDIT: I don't think there was really a consensus on GP farming. I figure we can still squeeze one out of St. Pete before Yaro takes over, but I'm not sure about the math involved.
Pre Play Plan:
Start golden age immediatly. Revolt to organised religion/sleavey. Revolt back to Caste System+pacifism on final turn of GA.
Yaroslav:
hire engineer instead of scientist
whip library
whip university ASAP
start National Epic
worker finishes mine it is working on and building a workshop. Then heads towards Yekaterinburg.
Yekaterinburg:
whip library
whip university ASAP
barracks
longbow
workers focus on chopping forests, they are helped by the one N of Moscow once the workshop is finished. After wards chain irrigate farms north.
St Petersburg:
missionary-send to Yekaterinburg, or the highest production city without religion if it has already spread there.
whip university
galley
Moscow:
university
Oxford
worker near St Pete build workshop on grassland to S.
Novogrod:
hire engineer instead of artist
work a plains hill instead of coast
library
whip university
courthouse
workers finish farm, chop forest, build more grass farms.
galley to W goes to contact French.
galley to E goes to scout barb continent.
trieme goes S to block barb reinforcements
keep science at 0% while waiting for unis/Oxford to be built. Maybe we should switch research to economics as it looks like we could get the free GM? No one else even has education yet.
Start golden age immediatly. Revolt to organised religion/sleavey. Revolt back to Caste System+pacifism on final turn of GA.
Yaroslav:
hire engineer instead of scientist
whip library
whip university ASAP
start National Epic
worker finishes mine it is working on and building a workshop. Then heads towards Yekaterinburg.
Yekaterinburg:
whip library
whip university ASAP
barracks
longbow
workers focus on chopping forests, they are helped by the one N of Moscow once the workshop is finished. After wards chain irrigate farms north.
St Petersburg:
missionary-send to Yekaterinburg, or the highest production city without religion if it has already spread there.
whip university
galley
Moscow:
university
Oxford
worker near St Pete build workshop on grassland to S.
Novogrod:
hire engineer instead of artist
work a plains hill instead of coast
library
whip university
courthouse
workers finish farm, chop forest, build more grass farms.
galley to W goes to contact French.
galley to E goes to scout barb continent.
trieme goes S to block barb reinforcements
keep science at 0% while waiting for unis/Oxford to be built. Maybe we should switch research to economics as it looks like we could get the free GM? No one else even has education yet.
^ I thought both Gandhi and Roosevelt had education already. 
Assuming the other two are indeed DG and Church - they both have Nationhood as their favourite civic, so they'd likely go with Nat first. I've seen AI's go Econ first in some tests, but I think that might only have been Musa - can't quite remember. If we can get the GM, it's a good move. We don't need GP until our next GS, I think, and that may still be a while.
Assuming the other two are indeed DG and Church - they both have Nationhood as their favourite civic, so they'd likely go with Nat first. I've seen AI's go Econ first in some tests, but I think that might only have been Musa - can't quite remember. If we can get the GM, it's a good move. We don't need GP until our next GS, I think, and that may still be a while.shyuhe
Deity
Looks solid, economics sounds good.
Regarding GPeople, do we really need another GS at this point? If not, I'd like to crank out a person from Moscow with hopes of a GE (for Taj). Not sure if Moscow can keep up with the other cities though...
Also, how much more infra are we going to be building in the short-term? Pacifism -- two GS (SM) -- communism is possible, which would help our production a lot. Plus it'd give us a GSpy that we can use to fuel another golden age to swap civics again. However, since we don't have too much time to debate this, I'm fine if others want to stick with OR.
Regarding GPeople, do we really need another GS at this point? If not, I'd like to crank out a person from Moscow with hopes of a GE (for Taj). Not sure if Moscow can keep up with the other cities though...
Also, how much more infra are we going to be building in the short-term? Pacifism -- two GS (SM) -- communism is possible, which would help our production a lot. Plus it'd give us a GSpy that we can use to fuel another golden age to swap civics again. However, since we don't have too much time to debate this, I'm fine if others want to stick with OR.
If DG went Nat first, we might be out of luck on Taj already. Besides, I don't know exactly, but I don't think Moscow is anywhere near popping a GP...
I was expecting a switch back to Pac with Caste. I think we're already behind on GS's. The biggest bulb fest should probably happen around Chem/SM/Comm/Bio, as that gives us a massive production boost, as you said.
I was expecting a switch back to Pac with Caste. I think we're already behind on GS's. The biggest bulb fest should probably happen around Chem/SM/Comm/Bio, as that gives us a massive production boost, as you said.
Your right, they have just discovered it, so economics would be more risky.
When we adopt slavery we will have to fire most of our scientists in St Pete, this means pacifism would not be that useful until we readopt CS at the end of the golden age.
shyuhe
Deity
Yes, I was suggesting pacifism at the end (after using OR for the majority of the GA). Guess I missed that in the earlier summary.
shyuhe
Deity
Considering our city loss, I'd be more willing to gamble on economics in an effort to "catch up."
IIRC, Roosevelt got Educ some 7-8t ago (just after my first half-turnset). If we're thinking he might go for Econ next, I'd say we're too late. Maybe it's worthwhile smashing enter to 1650 AD a few times to see if the AI's have consistent tech paths and what those are...
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