RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
I believe Babyblue is up then! 
SGOTM 10 - One Short Straw
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
All right. I'll try and post a plan tmr.
So, where exactly do you guys want the next city? RRRaskolnikov's dotmap showed 1E of iron, which seems the best. 1S of there would be able to borrow Moscow's food resources, but it loses a hill and a forest. I'm for 1E of iron.
I guess we're definitely getting a trireme out now... What about other defensive units?
I'll try and pre-calculate something through a potential golden age, and see where we can get with that plan...
I guess we're definitely getting a trireme out now... What about other defensive units?
I'll try and pre-calculate something through a potential golden age, and see where we can get with that plan...
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
I am still for 1E of iron. Fastest start... and better long term than the other one (Moscow is short of tiles to work, overlapping the food isn't good here I believe)
This is a draft plan. I'm gonna worldbuilder our cities and improvements, and try some test runs today. It's a bit too complicated for me to pre-calculate to Oxford from here in my head, but I think we need to, so we can time the golden age.
Workers
NNE of Moscow: road (3t) road 1NW (4t) mine iron (6t) mine forested hill (11t) = 24t
W of Moscow: farming (6t) shop 1E (9t) = 15t
E of Yaroslavl': chopping (2t) mine (6t) road (3t) mine 1N of Yaro (7t) = 18t
N of Rostov: shop 1S of Moscow (9t) shop NNE of Moscow (9t) = 18t
Novgorod: camping (3t) shop 1NE (9t) shop 1S (13t) = 25t
Next: built in 3t ; road cow (3t) ; road iron (3t) ; mine 1NW (7t) = 16t
The one after that: built in 5t ; send to NEE of Novgorod - farm (10t) = 15t
Cities
Moscow: settler in 1t w/ 18h overflow ; assign scientist (give up GH to StP) ; worker in 2t w/ 9h overflow ; worker in 2t w/ no overflow ; grow to 9 in 4t (firing scientist, working unimproved grass for 1t, new farm for 3t) ; build longbow in 3t w/ 26h overflow ; 57h in 1t university ; start another settler = 9t+
St. Petersburg: monastery in 3t (fire one scientist, work GH in 1t) w/ 3h overflow ; trireme in 7t w/ 6h overflow ; missionary in 5t w/ 2h overflow = 15t
Novgorod: galley + growth in 4t w/ 5h overflow ; maybe longbow, then library (need to figure out)
Yaroslavl': WB in 2t; WB in 1t w/ 13h overflow; WB in 9t w/ 3h overflow ; Library (3t @6hpt + 1t @7hpt + 2t @13hpt + 4t @18hpt) in 10t w/ 5h overflow = 22t ; 4t @18hpt + 5h overflow = 77h / 270h University (4-pop whip @26t)
Next: run artist to border pop, then engineer ; start library
Questions:
Should we pull the south LB back north? I don't wanna build any units in Moscow or StP, but we only have MP up there. Alternatively, we could build a couple of warriors for MP and free up the longbows.
What should we do with the current galley now that we're not settling silver? I'd still send it down there to explore and fogbust a bit.
PS: I really miss Serfdom...
Workers
NNE of Moscow: road (3t) road 1NW (4t) mine iron (6t) mine forested hill (11t) = 24t
W of Moscow: farming (6t) shop 1E (9t) = 15t
E of Yaroslavl': chopping (2t) mine (6t) road (3t) mine 1N of Yaro (7t) = 18t
N of Rostov: shop 1S of Moscow (9t) shop NNE of Moscow (9t) = 18t
Novgorod: camping (3t) shop 1NE (9t) shop 1S (13t) = 25t
Next: built in 3t ; road cow (3t) ; road iron (3t) ; mine 1NW (7t) = 16t
The one after that: built in 5t ; send to NEE of Novgorod - farm (10t) = 15t
Cities
Moscow: settler in 1t w/ 18h overflow ; assign scientist (give up GH to StP) ; worker in 2t w/ 9h overflow ; worker in 2t w/ no overflow ; grow to 9 in 4t (firing scientist, working unimproved grass for 1t, new farm for 3t) ; build longbow in 3t w/ 26h overflow ; 57h in 1t university ; start another settler = 9t+
St. Petersburg: monastery in 3t (fire one scientist, work GH in 1t) w/ 3h overflow ; trireme in 7t w/ 6h overflow ; missionary in 5t w/ 2h overflow = 15t
Novgorod: galley + growth in 4t w/ 5h overflow ; maybe longbow, then library (need to figure out)
Yaroslavl': WB in 2t; WB in 1t w/ 13h overflow; WB in 9t w/ 3h overflow ; Library (3t @6hpt + 1t @7hpt + 2t @13hpt + 4t @18hpt) in 10t w/ 5h overflow = 22t ; 4t @18hpt + 5h overflow = 77h / 270h University (4-pop whip @26t)
Next: run artist to border pop, then engineer ; start library
Questions:
Should we pull the south LB back north? I don't wanna build any units in Moscow or StP, but we only have MP up there. Alternatively, we could build a couple of warriors for MP and free up the longbows.
What should we do with the current galley now that we're not settling silver? I'd still send it down there to explore and fogbust a bit.
PS: I really miss Serfdom...
Any comments? I could play tmr night... I do think that we should finish Lib, start a GAge and rush universities. We might need to delay the GAge a couple of turns after Lib. I'd mainly like to know what you guys think about barb defence now...
shyuhe
Deity
I think we should build a warrior as MP to free up the LB. It'll take a turn max. Otherwise the plan looks good. And yes, my RL things have calmed down again
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
Will try to comment before you play...
One question to mdy, Shyuhe: I don't remember the precise rule for barbs (I think it's in SGOTM9 thread, maybe your memory isn't as crap as mine): do they attack city if they can land next to it from a galley? If yes, that's all our cities... which means warriors as MP are unefficient. (well we can put some to grow, but we need real troops inside cities
... one city was fun... I am not sure about the second...)
^ That's what I was asking. I thought we might be safe, as Moscow is not actually on the coast? I really don't know. Would the maces from Rostov move north? Barb cities tend to have 3-4 defenders prior to moving out, but I haven't lost many of my own cities to maces in recent memory. 
Our only barracks is in Novgorod atm. Iron won't be hooked up 'till the end of this set according to my plan. Right now, one of our problems is production outside of Moscow. I don't wanna overload Moscow with barracks and a bunch of units, as it needs to get settlers/workers/OU out, but there's not much of an alternative if we think we need more defence.
Our only barracks is in Novgorod atm. Iron won't be hooked up 'till the end of this set according to my plan. Right now, one of our problems is production outside of Moscow. I don't wanna overload Moscow with barracks and a bunch of units, as it needs to get settlers/workers/OU out, but there's not much of an alternative if we think we need more defence.
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
I think Moscow isn't safe at all... Barbs can land from galley next to it... iirc, we had a city last game that met the same criterias and it gets attacked during all the game 
edit: I am looking for a link from last thread...
edit2: this is the city I was talking about... one of the coast and it got attacked advitam eternam
edit: I am looking for a link from last thread...
edit2: this is the city I was talking about... one of the coast and it got attacked advitam eternam
Spoiler :
^ I did some digging in MW and CRC threads from the last SG. It seems that they are programmed to land on the same tile every time. According to klarius it's related to: proximity of city, city defence, landing tile defence & distance from barb city in galley turns. The city defence would have to be huge to influence the equation. I would imagine Moscow is next. The two tiles they could land are hills. We could simply place LB's there, but that would probably just make the new city the likely target. The best thing that could happen is Gandhi taking Rostov.
The other option would be beating it by fortifying the potential landing sites to encourage excursions towards Roos? I don't know if that's possible.
Maybe I should hold off playing tonight, if we're not confident about this. I do not wanna lose this game to barbs.
The other option would be beating it by fortifying the potential landing sites to encourage excursions towards Roos? I don't know if that's possible.
Maybe I should hold off playing tonight, if we're not confident about this. I do not wanna lose this game to barbs.
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
Not sure of what to do to protect Moscow... two LBS on hills seem expensive...
then, as you said, Moscow is the only city able to make troops (but no rax) currently...
Some comments on improvements: if I get it right (this is the pb), you plan to put only shops near Moscow? The city needs to grow to new happy cap fast (hence farms then shops, not shops)... I must be wrong though
edit about southern galley: I think if you move it south or SSE it will get attacked by the barbs (if SSE it can be next turn)... and with our luck...
I'd rather use it to meet new foes...
then, as you said, Moscow is the only city able to make troops (but no rax) currently...
Some comments on improvements: if I get it right (this is the pb
), you plan to put only shops near Moscow? The city needs to grow to new happy cap fast (hence farms then shops, not shops)... I must be wrong though edit about southern galley: I think if you move it south or SSE it will get attacked by the barbs (if SSE it can be next turn)... and with our luck...
I'd rather use it to meet new foes...
Moscow: I'll have a look at city growth. You're probably right...
LB's: I was thinking of building a warrior for MP and having the two existing LB's (Moscow and south) fortify the hills. Squeezing in a barracks is probably a good move at this point. It's a negligible build, with Moscow's hammers and AGG.
Galley: I'm unsure about this. I'd kinda like to know if the silver site is on the same continent as the barb cities prior to settling it. On the other hand, you're probably right about the danger of attack, and we do still need to meet DG. The other option I was wondering about is moving towards the sheep peninsula on the barb continent, so we can see another attack coming sooner - but this is practically suicide for our galley, so maybe not.
LB's: I was thinking of building a warrior for MP and having the two existing LB's (Moscow and south) fortify the hills. Squeezing in a barracks is probably a good move at this point. It's a negligible build, with Moscow's hammers and AGG.
Galley: I'm unsure about this. I'd kinda like to know if the silver site is on the same continent as the barb cities prior to settling it. On the other hand, you're probably right about the danger of attack, and we do still need to meet DG. The other option I was wondering about is moving towards the sheep peninsula on the barb continent, so we can see another attack coming sooner - but this is practically suicide for our galley, so maybe not.
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
Good idea about the LBs...
About the galley, I agree it's a good idea to check if silver is on an island or not, but I thnik we have to accept loosing the galley then (even if we are lucky in the first fight...)
I would wait for the others on this
About the galley, I agree it's a good idea to check if silver is on an island or not, but I thnik we have to accept loosing the galley then (even if we are lucky in the first fight...)
I would wait for the others on this
shyuhe
Deity
I'd prefer to beat off the barbs using triremes than stopping their naval invasions. If that's not possible, then putting the LBs on the hills seems like the safest option.
I don't know if barb galleys carrying troops attack - I'd have to test that.
I don't know if barb galleys carrying troops attack - I'd have to test that.
Ok. I think I might take tonight to revise the plan a bit (re: improvements and builds) and do some more research on barbs, then play tmr.
PRE-PLAY PLAN : 1540 AD - 1610 AD
Workers
(1) NNE of Moscow: road (3t) road 1NW (4t) mine iron (6t) mine forested hill (11t) = 24t
(2) W of Moscow: farming (6t) farm 1E (7t) farm 1E (7t) = 21t
(3) E of Yaroslavl': chopping (2t) mine (6t) road (3t) mine 1N of Yaro (7t) = 18t
(4) N of Rostov: farm WSW of Moscow (8t) shop NNE of Moscow (9t) = 17t
(5) Novgorod: camping (3t) shop 1NE (9t) shop 1S (13t) = 25t
(6) Next: built in 3t ; road cow (3t) ; road iron (3t) ; mine 1NW (7t) = 16t
(7) The one after that: built in 5t ; send to NEE of Novgorod - farm (10t) = 15t
Cities
Moscow: settler (1t); worker (3t); worker (5t); barracks (7t); warrior (8t); hammers into university (9t); settler... Option: longbow after barracks (see what's happening with barbs in the meantime).
St. Petersburg: monastery (3t); trireme (10t); missionary (15t); start university
Novgorod: galley (4t); longbow (10t); library; university. Question: I'm considering sending the existing longbow with the galley to help explorer fogbust west continent. Novgorod would be defenceless for 6t, or galley would be stationary that long. What do you guys think of this? We shouldn't have any barb trouble in Novgorod, as there's no fog on the west half of our continent...
Yaroslavl': wb (2t); wb (3t); library (13t); start university
New city: library, university. I think I would run an engineer from the start, as a border pop won't get us anything but a bunch of coastal tiles. It can wait.
Units
Southern LB: move north towards Moscow, stay 1 tile clear of Rostov maces all along.
Moscow LB: move to gold when warrior complete.
Galley 1: hold one turn (hopefully barb galley moves east and we avoid a 50% battle); move south towards silver. If barb galley moves north, we'll need to retreat, as barb galley could get to northern fish before trireme?
Galley 2: pick up explorer, head for west continent.
Diplo
What is our policy on AI demands? Deny everything, right?
We're keeping all EP on Mao, correct? That seems like the best option.
Tech: If GP becomes available, I'd consider trading Nat, especially if an AI has Nat. We're not about to build Taj anyway. (In my previous tests, Edu, Nat and GP were the only techs they went for).
Schedule
Play tmr night (20-24 hrs. roughly)
I'd play until Liberalism, unless something else interesting happens.
Workers
(1) NNE of Moscow: road (3t) road 1NW (4t) mine iron (6t) mine forested hill (11t) = 24t
(2) W of Moscow: farming (6t) farm 1E (7t) farm 1E (7t) = 21t
(3) E of Yaroslavl': chopping (2t) mine (6t) road (3t) mine 1N of Yaro (7t) = 18t
(4) N of Rostov: farm WSW of Moscow (8t) shop NNE of Moscow (9t) = 17t
(5) Novgorod: camping (3t) shop 1NE (9t) shop 1S (13t) = 25t
(6) Next: built in 3t ; road cow (3t) ; road iron (3t) ; mine 1NW (7t) = 16t
(7) The one after that: built in 5t ; send to NEE of Novgorod - farm (10t) = 15t
Cities
Moscow: settler (1t); worker (3t); worker (5t); barracks (7t); warrior (8t); hammers into university (9t); settler... Option: longbow after barracks (see what's happening with barbs in the meantime).
St. Petersburg: monastery (3t); trireme (10t); missionary (15t); start university
Novgorod: galley (4t); longbow (10t); library; university. Question: I'm considering sending the existing longbow with the galley to help explorer fogbust west continent. Novgorod would be defenceless for 6t, or galley would be stationary that long. What do you guys think of this? We shouldn't have any barb trouble in Novgorod, as there's no fog on the west half of our continent...
Yaroslavl': wb (2t); wb (3t); library (13t); start university
New city: library, university. I think I would run an engineer from the start, as a border pop won't get us anything but a bunch of coastal tiles. It can wait.
Spoiler :
Units
Southern LB: move north towards Moscow, stay 1 tile clear of Rostov maces all along.
Moscow LB: move to gold when warrior complete.
Galley 1: hold one turn (hopefully barb galley moves east and we avoid a 50% battle); move south towards silver. If barb galley moves north, we'll need to retreat, as barb galley could get to northern fish before trireme?
Galley 2: pick up explorer, head for west continent.
Diplo
What is our policy on AI demands? Deny everything, right?
We're keeping all EP on Mao, correct? That seems like the best option.
Tech: If GP becomes available, I'd consider trading Nat, especially if an AI has Nat. We're not about to build Taj anyway. (In my previous tests, Edu, Nat and GP were the only techs they went for).
Schedule
Play tmr night (20-24 hrs. roughly)
I'd play until Liberalism, unless something else interesting happens.
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