shyuhe
Deity
Do we want to spam some cities since we have state property now? I'd trade for astronomy and see if we can get some AI out of mercantilism...
SGOTM 10 - One Short Straw
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
OK here we go:
teching: finish astro, start on physics at 0%. Need about 1250 gold to finish those two.
Sell nationalism to remaining AIs for a bit more than 400 gold.
Trade fur to Gandhi against silk.
farm HE with 8 xp musket (currently in St Pet.). Plan is to land him on the grass forest where a barb warrior and a mace are sitting.
Moscow: finish gorcer -> Taj. Maybe an additional settler is worth it for one of fish/oil, crab/2*silver, fish/whale/oil sites?
St Pet: market -> grocer -> harbor.
Novgorod: market -> harbor
Yeka: market -> harbor
Yaro: market -> grocer
Yakutsk: bank
Vladivostok: wb -> lib
Note: If beakers are the limiting factor, I would skip grocers where we can waiting for factories, building wealth. harbors can be justified once AIs go out of mercantilism, but we are building a lot of health/happy building while we could skip most of them
The above plan doesn't take that into account, it's a "build everything everywhere" version... we could go with the skeleton version...
teching: finish astro, start on physics at 0%. Need about 1250 gold to finish those two.
Sell nationalism to remaining AIs for a bit more than 400 gold.
Trade fur to Gandhi against silk.
farm HE with 8 xp musket (currently in St Pet.). Plan is to land him on the grass forest where a barb warrior and a mace are sitting.
Moscow: finish gorcer -> Taj. Maybe an additional settler is worth it for one of fish/oil, crab/2*silver, fish/whale/oil sites?
St Pet: market -> grocer -> harbor.
Novgorod: market -> harbor
Yeka: market -> harbor
Yaro: market -> grocer
Yakutsk: bank
Vladivostok: wb -> lib
Note: If beakers are the limiting factor, I would skip grocers where we can waiting for factories, building wealth. harbors can be justified once AIs go out of mercantilism, but we are building a lot of health/happy building while we could skip most of them
The above plan doesn't take that into account, it's a "build everything everywhere" version... we could go with the skeleton version...
I was imagining that we would be building wealth to support 100% research soonish if not now. We are mostly built up with basic infrastructure. Looks to me like 3 secondary cities at a time should be sufficient, maybe even less with effective cash trading. Markets could be ok if we need more , but our base commerce is quite low. Harbors I generally like as they are cheap to build, and I imagine AIs will start switching to FM soon. I'll try and do some calcs for this tonight... My general feeling is that there is not enough tech tree left for binary research fueled by wealth multipliers to work.
Do we need to grow Yaro? We max out at 8 specs. Maybe growing one more so we can work the workshop, but I'd start running the specialists otherwise.
Where do HE and GT go? St. Pete could eventually be a good city for that, taking over the missing FP once we have Bombay and the crab from Yaro.
I've had this weird feeling that we really need to settle the one tile island NE of Moscow... What do others think about this?
EDIT: You really think we have a shot at Taj?
, but our base commerce is quite low. Harbors I generally like as they are cheap to build, and I imagine AIs will start switching to FM soon. I'll try and do some calcs for this tonight... My general feeling is that there is not enough tech tree left for binary research fueled by wealth multipliers to work.Do we need to grow Yaro? We max out at 8 specs. Maybe growing one more so we can work the workshop, but I'd start running the specialists otherwise.
Where do HE and GT go? St. Pete could eventually be a good city for that, taking over the missing FP once we have Bombay and the crab from Yaro.
I've had this weird feeling that we really need to settle the one tile island NE of Moscow... What do others think about this?
EDIT: You really think we have a shot at Taj?
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
wealth: I agree, I would build some in few cities to support 100% science slider, rather than additional wealth buildings.
Yaro:will have a look, but growing to the size we can max out specialists + one seems like a good idea indeed.
That island (fish/oil) east of Moscow is only worth some commerce... we could squeeze a settler in Moscow (I listed two other sites maybe worth settling), though I am not sure it's worth it... I don't really think we have a shot at the Taj, and it will be even more hard when we sell nationalism for cash (first thing i'll do once playing). Though there are no advantages building wealth in Moscow as we will got cash anyway if we fail completing the wonder.
St Pet -> HE, Novgorod -> IW? Globe doesn't look so hot without drafting, but maybe we want to put IW in Moscow, though with Oxford already there, I would put it in another city.
Yaro:will have a look, but growing to the size we can max out specialists + one seems like a good idea indeed.
That island (fish/oil) east of Moscow is only worth some commerce... we could squeeze a settler in Moscow (I listed two other sites maybe worth settling), though I am not sure it's worth it... I don't really think we have a shot at the Taj, and it will be even more hard when we sell nationalism for cash (first thing i'll do once playing). Though there are no advantages building wealth in Moscow as we will got cash anyway if we fail completing the wonder.
St Pet -> HE, Novgorod -> IW? Globe doesn't look so hot without drafting, but maybe we want to put IW in Moscow, though with Oxford already there, I would put it in another city.
I find that it is normally better to have the ironworks and heroic epic in different cities to give 2 good production cities instead of one excellent one. Moscow looks like it will have our highest raw hammer output which suggests one should go there (probably ironworks for research bonus). There are no other wonders which would be useful there so the presence of Oxford should not be a problem.
We will want a source of oil so that island would be worth settling, though we can probably delay it till after the Taj. If we start it right after the grocer is finished we should be able to build it before any AI we sell nationalism too. Would there be any disadvantage in delaying selling it for a few turns anyway?
If it also works the fish being used by St Pete we could get another two.
Are we planning on trading for economics at any point?
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
I didn't say the opposite, and I agree.
Problem is that maximizing Oxford means eating food surplus through scientists, while maximizing IW means working workshops/engeeners... We can't do both at the same time in the same city. That's why i proposed other cities even if Moscow is better because OU is already done.
Agreed. Might delay that settler after our Taj attempt, we can postpone selling nationalism a bit, but then we can't control how much we get
could be more, could be less. Will keep growing in this case.
We can delay it till we want AL. We don't want to use the civic anyway. Though it's best to trade it when we can (is there an option currently? I can't remember
)
Duh!
Grow to size 15, then. We'll need a happy fix, though. We could complete that market timed with growth to 15, together with the silk trade, for now. Hopefully, emancipation doesn't hit us too hard. 2 AI already have it, and they all keep popping engineers. Building Taj for cash is fine with me. I'm not sure how much value we get out of a settler at this point... Basically we get to settle a spot instead of conquering it, so I guess that's some value. Also, I keep wondering about uranium location... No, I think I'd build Taj / cash in Moscow next.
IW in Moscow sounds good. It would be nice to get Steel pre-Fission, then, but I think it's ok to build MP first if necessary, as uranium and bureau should be enough.
I figure we have another 4GS out of Yaro, plus the one from Physics. Bulb 4 and couple one with Spy for late golden age? The only 2 techs we can bulb are Physics and Fission - otherwise Biology takes precedence. Bulbing Physics and 3-bulbing Fission might be good. That means we'd probably wanna hold Fission and tech something else for a bit - probably Rifling / Artillery. I'm too lazy to calculate the gpp exactly, because of the initial growth turns, but it looks like about 35-40t for the first 3GS out of Yaro, and another 18t for the fourth.
@RRRaskolnikov,
I think you should play a longish set, in the interest of actually finishing the game. Unless something else unexpected happens, it seems fairly straightforward for a while from here.
@RRRaskolnikov,
I think you should play a longish set, in the interest of actually finishing the game. Unless something else unexpected happens, it seems fairly straightforward for a while from here.
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
^^ Will play till physics tomorrow or tonight if I am in the correct state (back from ![[party]](/images/smilies/partytime.gif "Party [party]")
). Keep the good ideas coming 
). Keep the good ideas coming
I vote you play further than that, if you're up for it. Electricity maybe, or even closer to Fission? We only have 10 days to go... Roughly Fission now, close in on Rocketry this weekend, than a week for the war? Who rocks the most at warring?
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
OK, I am playing now... will post a save most likely after physics in a couple of hours, so we can comment a bit then continue to bring us closer to fission...
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
Physics done
Taj completed
World war on the other continent
Some minor troubles with a privateer in the west... We'll have a new wb and a hunting fregate up next turn.
Started a settler in Moscow due in three turns.
As we decided to postpone bio for a while I've started replacing our non irrigating farms by watermills. We can swtich them back to farms in Moscow (OU) after bio if we feel like it.
Next techs are electricity -> fission?
Damn Ais stick with mercantilism and we can't bribe them as we are running SP![[pissed]](/images/smilies/pissed.gif "Pissed [pissed]")
Have a look... I can play some more today
Here is your Session Turn Log from 1794 AD to 1820 AD:
Turn 408, 1796 AD: You have discovered Astronomy!
Turn 408, 1796 AD: Yakutsk celebrates "We Love the Prime Minister Day"!!!
Turn 408, 1796 AD: Mao Zedong has declared war on Roosevelt!
Turn 408, 1796 AD: De Gaulle has declared war on Roosevelt!
Turn 409, 1798 AD: Yakutsk celebrates "We Love the Prime Minister Day"!!!
Turn 410, 1800 AD: You have discovered Replaceable Parts!
Turn 410, 1800 AD: Churchill has declared war on Mao Zedong!
Turn 410, 1800 AD: Philadelphia (Roosevelt) has been captured by the Chinese Empire!!!
Turn 410, 1800 AD: Barbarian's Maceman (8.00) vs Stalin's Musketman 40 (Moscow) (14.40)
Turn 410, 1800 AD: Combat Odds: 3.0%
Turn 410, 1800 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 410, 1800 AD: (Plot Defense: +50%)
Turn 410, 1800 AD: Barbarian's Maceman is hit for 26 (74/100HP)
Turn 410, 1800 AD: Stalin's Musketman 40 (Moscow) is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 410, 1800 AD: Barbarian's Maceman is hit for 26 (48/100HP)
Turn 410, 1800 AD: Barbarian's Maceman is hit for 26 (22/100HP)
Turn 410, 1800 AD: Stalin's Musketman 40 (Moscow) is hit for 15 (70/100HP)
Turn 410, 1800 AD: Barbarian's Maceman is hit for 26 (0/100HP)
Turn 410, 1800 AD: Stalin's Musketman 40 (Moscow) has defeated Barbarian's Maceman!
Turn 412, 1804 AD: Stalin's Musketman 40 (Moscow) (6.93) vs Barbarian's Warrior (2.00)
Turn 412, 1804 AD: Combat Odds: 99.9%
Turn 412, 1804 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 412, 1804 AD: Stalin's Musketman 40 (Moscow) is hit for 10 (60/100HP)
Turn 412, 1804 AD: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 37 (63/100HP)
Turn 412, 1804 AD: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 37 (26/100HP)
Turn 412, 1804 AD: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 37 (0/100HP)
Turn 412, 1804 AD: Stalin's Musketman 40 (Moscow) has defeated Barbarian's Warrior!
Turn 413, 1806 AD: The borders of Yaroslavl' have expanded!
Turn 413, 1806 AD: Scipio Africanus (Great General) has been born in Washington (Roosevelt)!
Turn 413, 1806 AD: Sargon (Great General) has been born in Beijing (Mao Zedong)!
Turn 414, 1808 AD: Boston (Roosevelt) has been captured by the Chinese Empire!!!
Turn 416, 1812 AD: Nabu-rimanni (Great Scientist) has been born in Yaroslavl' (Stalin)!
Turn 417, 1814 AD: Mao Zedong adopts Free Religion!
Turn 418, 1816 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Novgorod!
Turn 418, 1816 AD: Yaroslavl' has become unhealthy.
Turn 418, 1816 AD: Churchill has 120 gold available for trade.
Turn 418, 1816 AD: Mao Zedong has 90 gold available for trade.
Turn 418, 1816 AD: Stalin's Golden Age has begun!!!
Turn 418, 1816 AD: Stalin has completed The Taj Mahal!
Turn 418, 1816 AD: 2? were plundered by a Privateer outside Novgorod.
Turn 418, 1816 AD: A Fishing Boats has been destroyed by a marauding Privateer!
Turn 419, 1818 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Novgorod!
Turn 419, 1818 AD: Ptolemy (Great Scientist) has been born in Moscow (Stalin)!
Turn 419, 1818 AD: You have discovered Physics!
Turn 419, 1818 AD: You have discovered a source of Uranium near Moscow!
Turn 419, 1818 AD: 2? were plundered by a Privateer outside Novgorod.
Turn 419, 1818 AD: Gandhi has founded Hyderabad in a distant land.
Turn 419, 1818 AD: Gandhi has founded Madurai.
Turn 420, 1820 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Novgorod!
Turn 420, 1820 AD: Gandhi has 60 gold available for trade.
Turn 420, 1820 AD: Mao Zedong has 100 gold available for trade.
Turn 420, 1820 AD: St. Petersburg will grow to size 11 on the next turn.
Turn 420, 1820 AD: Yekaterinburg will grow to size 12 on the next turn.
pics incoming...
Cheers,
Ras
edit: would be cool to have a team consensus on places for HE, IW and Globe if we want it, so I can start some of those
edit2: HE unlocked as well.
Taj completed
World war on the other continent
Some minor troubles with a privateer in the west... We'll have a new wb and a hunting fregate up next turn.
Started a settler in Moscow due in three turns.
As we decided to postpone bio for a while I've started replacing our non irrigating farms by watermills. We can swtich them back to farms in Moscow (OU) after bio if we feel like it.
Next techs are electricity -> fission?
Damn Ais stick with mercantilism and we can't bribe them as we are running SP
Have a look... I can play some more today
Here is your Session Turn Log from 1794 AD to 1820 AD:
Turn 408, 1796 AD: You have discovered Astronomy!
Turn 408, 1796 AD: Yakutsk celebrates "We Love the Prime Minister Day"!!!
Turn 408, 1796 AD: Mao Zedong has declared war on Roosevelt!
Turn 408, 1796 AD: De Gaulle has declared war on Roosevelt!
Turn 409, 1798 AD: Yakutsk celebrates "We Love the Prime Minister Day"!!!
Turn 410, 1800 AD: You have discovered Replaceable Parts!
Turn 410, 1800 AD: Churchill has declared war on Mao Zedong!
Turn 410, 1800 AD: Philadelphia (Roosevelt) has been captured by the Chinese Empire!!!
Turn 410, 1800 AD: Barbarian's Maceman (8.00) vs Stalin's Musketman 40 (Moscow) (14.40)
Turn 410, 1800 AD: Combat Odds: 3.0%
Turn 410, 1800 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 410, 1800 AD: (Plot Defense: +50%)
Turn 410, 1800 AD: Barbarian's Maceman is hit for 26 (74/100HP)
Turn 410, 1800 AD: Stalin's Musketman 40 (Moscow) is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 410, 1800 AD: Barbarian's Maceman is hit for 26 (48/100HP)
Turn 410, 1800 AD: Barbarian's Maceman is hit for 26 (22/100HP)
Turn 410, 1800 AD: Stalin's Musketman 40 (Moscow) is hit for 15 (70/100HP)
Turn 410, 1800 AD: Barbarian's Maceman is hit for 26 (0/100HP)
Turn 410, 1800 AD: Stalin's Musketman 40 (Moscow) has defeated Barbarian's Maceman!
Turn 412, 1804 AD: Stalin's Musketman 40 (Moscow) (6.93) vs Barbarian's Warrior (2.00)
Turn 412, 1804 AD: Combat Odds: 99.9%
Turn 412, 1804 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 412, 1804 AD: Stalin's Musketman 40 (Moscow) is hit for 10 (60/100HP)
Turn 412, 1804 AD: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 37 (63/100HP)
Turn 412, 1804 AD: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 37 (26/100HP)
Turn 412, 1804 AD: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 37 (0/100HP)
Turn 412, 1804 AD: Stalin's Musketman 40 (Moscow) has defeated Barbarian's Warrior!
Turn 413, 1806 AD: The borders of Yaroslavl' have expanded!
Turn 413, 1806 AD: Scipio Africanus (Great General) has been born in Washington (Roosevelt)!
Turn 413, 1806 AD: Sargon (Great General) has been born in Beijing (Mao Zedong)!
Turn 414, 1808 AD: Boston (Roosevelt) has been captured by the Chinese Empire!!!
Turn 416, 1812 AD: Nabu-rimanni (Great Scientist) has been born in Yaroslavl' (Stalin)!
Turn 417, 1814 AD: Mao Zedong adopts Free Religion!
Turn 418, 1816 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Novgorod!
Turn 418, 1816 AD: Yaroslavl' has become unhealthy.
Turn 418, 1816 AD: Churchill has 120 gold available for trade.
Turn 418, 1816 AD: Mao Zedong has 90 gold available for trade.
Turn 418, 1816 AD: Stalin's Golden Age has begun!!!
Turn 418, 1816 AD: Stalin has completed The Taj Mahal!
Turn 418, 1816 AD: 2? were plundered by a Privateer outside Novgorod.
Turn 418, 1816 AD: A Fishing Boats has been destroyed by a marauding Privateer!
Turn 419, 1818 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Novgorod!
Turn 419, 1818 AD: Ptolemy (Great Scientist) has been born in Moscow (Stalin)!
Turn 419, 1818 AD: You have discovered Physics!
Turn 419, 1818 AD: You have discovered a source of Uranium near Moscow!
Turn 419, 1818 AD: 2? were plundered by a Privateer outside Novgorod.
Turn 419, 1818 AD: Gandhi has founded Hyderabad in a distant land.
Turn 419, 1818 AD: Gandhi has founded Madurai.
Turn 420, 1820 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Novgorod!
Turn 420, 1820 AD: Gandhi has 60 gold available for trade.
Turn 420, 1820 AD: Mao Zedong has 100 gold available for trade.
Turn 420, 1820 AD: St. Petersburg will grow to size 11 on the next turn.
Turn 420, 1820 AD: Yekaterinburg will grow to size 12 on the next turn.
pics incoming...
Cheers,
Ras
edit: would be cool to have a team consensus on places for HE, IW and Globe if we want it, so I can start some of those
edit2: HE unlocked as well.
shyuhe
Deity
Finally got PC access again. I'll take a look later tonight.
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
Spoiler pics of the round :
Looks good. We did get Taj! 
Elec / Fiss, yes.
It's unfortunate we're not running any scientists in Moscow, since they are worth 18bpt there. Maybe we can switch a couple of farms from St. Pete and Yeka as they complete their growth?
The AIs are all warring. Sweet! Maybe that's why they're not switching to FM? And no one has Demo yet. Gandhi might go for it after Corp, but that's still a long way from emancipation trouble for us. And, the bastard has 13 cities. We choked him real good. Everyone has uranium, except for Roos.
I'll think about NW's, and post my preference later.
We did get Taj! Elec / Fiss, yes.
It's unfortunate we're not running any scientists in Moscow, since they are worth 18bpt there. Maybe we can switch a couple of farms from St. Pete and Yeka as they complete their growth?
The AIs are all warring. Sweet! Maybe that's why they're not switching to FM? And no one has Demo yet. Gandhi might go for it after Corp, but that's still a long way from emancipation trouble for us. And, the bastard has 13 cities. We choked him real good.
Everyone has uranium, except for Roos.I'll think about NW's, and post my preference later.
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
I was thinking doing exactly that once the settler is done... I maximized prod during Taj and settler
.Will wait for team input on NWs...
at Gandhi indeed
I'm a bit unsure about the NWs. I've never used a nuke before. What does it do exactly? What sort of land army do we need? Ideally we can get 3 solid production cities (Moscow, HE and IW), but the costs of nukes are quite serious. Maybe Moscow does need IW so it can pump them out efficiently. We're looking at 50-60 cities that need to be taken...
What does it do exactly? What sort of land army do we need? Ideally we can get 3 solid production cities (Moscow, HE and IW), but the costs of nukes are quite serious. Maybe Moscow does need IW so it can pump them out efficiently. We're looking at 50-60 cities that need to be taken...Nukes are very expensive so I think we need one very strong production city. The easiest way to achieve this is to put the ironworks in Moscow. The Heroic Epic should probably go in Novogrod as it has the next highest production. We might put West Point there if we get military tradition early enough as well. It might also be worth putting the Globe in Yaroslav at some point to enable mass whipping once we have scaled back our research.
I agree with running whatever scientists we can in Moscow after the settler is built.
As everyone has uranium we should consider trying to cut off there supplies before they can build too many nukes.
I agree with running whatever scientists we can in Moscow after the settler is built.
As everyone has uranium we should consider trying to cut off there supplies before they can build too many nukes.
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
OK, will start the HE in Novgorod and build some more theaters to unlock Globe. I'll play electricity fission tomorow if nobody disagree. Hopefully we will be able to trade for rifling/corporation/Steel in the meantime
What oil do we settle? Do we stop expansion till nukes after that (that makes 8 cities iirc)? My guess is yes so we can tech faster.
edit: conquest: I guess infantries+nukes will suffice for our indian friend, but after that paratroopers seem better? Has anyone tested different combos for the assault on the big continent (also maybe we want to grab the barb continent first to improve our production capabilities)?
What oil do we settle? Do we stop expansion till nukes after that (that makes 8 cities iirc)? My guess is yes so we can tech faster.
edit: conquest: I guess infantries+nukes will suffice for our indian friend, but after that paratroopers seem better? Has anyone tested different combos for the assault on the big continent (also maybe we want to grab the barb continent first to improve our production capabilities)?
shyuhe
Deity
Given the number of days we have left, we'll probably just be scrambling to finish
Thoughts
Moscow - settler spam
Yaro - market -- grocer
St. P - theater -- wealth (and maybe city garrison units)
Yeak - harbor -- wealth
Nov - frig -- wealth
Yak - WB -- settler?
I suggest settling the crab/double fish near Roos, the dye/uranium near DeGaulle, and the oil/whale near the barbs. The oil's probably first, then the dye, then the crab site. They're all off-shore so they'll give good traderoutes.
We also NEED to double bulb bio. We have the spare GS to burn, and it'll speed up our growth/tech rate.
I think cavalry will be sufficient for military takeovers. Unless the AI picks up steam and gets decent military units first, in which case infantry will do. We should ignore the barbs - we want to wrap this up as soon as we can. Cutting off the AI uranium should be a non-issue - they should not be able to get nukes online in a timely fashion.
IW in Moscow sounds ok. HE should go in our next best production city, which I think is Novgorod.
Thoughts
Moscow - settler spam
Yaro - market -- grocer
St. P - theater -- wealth (and maybe city garrison units)
Yeak - harbor -- wealth
Nov - frig -- wealth
Yak - WB -- settler?
I suggest settling the crab/double fish near Roos, the dye/uranium near DeGaulle, and the oil/whale near the barbs. The oil's probably first, then the dye, then the crab site. They're all off-shore so they'll give good traderoutes.
We also NEED to double bulb bio. We have the spare GS to burn, and it'll speed up our growth/tech rate.
I think cavalry will be sufficient for military takeovers. Unless the AI picks up steam and gets decent military units first, in which case infantry will do. We should ignore the barbs - we want to wrap this up as soon as we can. Cutting off the AI uranium should be a non-issue - they should not be able to get nukes online in a timely fashion.
IW in Moscow sounds ok. HE should go in our next best production city, which I think is Novgorod.
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