SGOTM 10 - One Short Straw

[babybluepants]

That I don't really get sorry. I saw your post some days ago about 3 fishs/iron, but that city basically doesn't exist. I thought it was a typo, but I fail to see how you want only one city in the north. There are 4 resources which need 2 cities, and it's out of the way to miss one (all 4 tiles are awesome). Moreover why it takes forever to get up to speed? 3 wbs to build? The city isn't forced to build them all, then in my book more food makes for a more explosive city, not slow developing city...
What was your original spot you are talking about?

You're right. I'm an idiot.

Well that seems optimistic... settling 3 cities while he builds one... even with a worker steal, it's emperor, I hope you are right though

It's total guesswork... I got it just like that in one test a couple of weeks ago, but many things were different. At this point, I'm not even 100% sure he'll go for iron first. I was just trying to say that we could use more knowledge about him before we proceed with further city placement.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

I am not sure who will put pressure on who.

How could i say more politely:
Dear sir, i think you are heavily underestimating both sistine+specs and AI's wilingness to build culture untill it owns all tiles it wants. This is probably caused by some obscure french reasons.

Soirana.

You couldn't probably (but I think our nations should stay aside as it has nothing to do with it. Speak about my nonsense and red fish memory, that will be more accurate ) In this case the horse tile is a lost cause in every dotmap we will do .

@babybluepants: agreed (to the rest of your post, not that you are an idiot )

 

[shyuhe]

We won't be using horses this game though (I think), so it's not really a big loss.

 

[mdy]

Well that seems optimistic... settling 3 cities while he builds one... even with a worker steal, it's emperor, I hope you are right though

This should be possible if we focus on building settlers in the capital. For the West I favour settling NE of the crab. Settling further north doesn't gain us much, and we would inevitably have more cultural problems with Gandhi. Building culture until the second border pop would be very wasteful.

I like Soiranas settling suggestions to the South.

It looks like our best bet for a GP farm will be a 2 fish 1 crab one at the far west of the peninsular. We should be able to get a library and National Epic built there fairly soon which is all we really need there. We will almost certainly lose the FP to Gandhi so St Peterburg will not be able to compete with this site as our primary GP farm.

An iron/fish city could then be built 1E of the iron.

It would probably be best to found the city to the west firts, followed by the one to the south, then the GP farm.

We probably have enough workers for the immediate future. I would let St Pete grow and use the extra citizens to hire more scientists.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

This should be possible if we focus on building settlers in the capital. For the West I favour settling NE of the crab. Settling further north doesn't gain us much, and we would inevitably have more cultural problems with Gandhi. Building culture until the second border pop would be very wasteful.

Actually, if you don't go for the river, I prefer Soirana's site, which gains more green tiles.

I like Soiranas settling suggestions to the South.

Seems i am the only one arguing against ... let's go with Soirana's dotmap!

It looks like our best bet for a GP farm will be a 2 fish 1 crab one at the far west of the peninsular. We should be able to get a library and National Epic built there fairly soon which is all we really need there. We will almost certainly lose the FP to Gandhi so St Peterburg will not be able to compete with this site as our primary GP farm.

Why not in the plain hill? It's more overlap, yes, but here it's better in term of MM and output of the cities... the iron city can take the fish while growing then gives it to the GPfarm to max out its output... Moreover plain hill gives a faster start. I think settling the GPfarm in the grassland is not the best.

An iron/fish city could then be built 1E of the iron.

agreed

It would probably be best to found the city to the west firts, followed by the one to the south, then the GP farm.

I agree on the order.
Not sure about the worker estimation, but can't argue against either without the save

Cheers

 

[mdy]

Why not in the plain hill? It's more overlap, yes, but here it's better in term of MM and output of the cities... the iron city can take the fish while growing then gives it to the GPfarm to max out its output... Moreover plain hill gives a faster start. I think settling the GPfarm in the grassland is not the best.

On second thoughts that would probably be better.

 

[mdy]

Pre Play Plan:

St Petersburg:
build galley
hire all new citizens as scientists.
Use the first GS to found an academy in the capital

Moscow:
build settle, settler, settler
hire engineer instead of scientist to assist settler production.
first settler goes to found the city 2N 1E of crabs (first build a library, runs artist till border pops then engineer). second settler founds crab/clam city.

worker west of St Pete roads the elephants (this should give us trade routes with India) Then goes to improve city No 3.

worker 2 S of St Pete farms floodplain, chops forest to the east, goes to pre chop the crab/clam site

worker SE of St Pete builds road, chops forest, and then the 2N of Moscow.

worker W of Moscow builds road (should enable us to found the W city 1 turn earlier), then road 1S and 2S of capital (allowing us to build crab/clam 1 turn earlier)


I can play for around 10 turns tomorrow if no one has any objections.

 

[babybluepants]

Are we agreed on Soirana's site in the west, then? I'm fine with it.

10t gets you to second settler? Sounds good.

worker SE of St Pete builds road, chops forest, and then the 2N of Moscow.

That's the pre-chopped forest, right? Should we just put the chop in the settler right now?

worker west of St Pete roads the elephants (this should give us trade routes with India)

Shouldn't we already have trade routes through the river to Moscow? I can't look at the save file now... Otherwise, sounds good.

Should we maybe park the south LB at the cow, in case we get to meet someone else on the other continent?

 

[babybluepants]

It looks like our best bet for a GP farm will be a 2 fish 1 crab one at the far west of the peninsular. We should be able to get a library and National Epic built there fairly soon which is all we really need there. We will almost certainly lose the FP to Gandhi so St Peterburg will not be able to compete with this site as our primary GP farm.

It might also need to build a university, assuming we want a reasonable date for Oxford... I'd like to know what our timeline is. We won't found that city 'till at least 1550 AD. That's most likely our education date, as well. After that we have 10t for Lib, and then? Probably 8t for GP, and then we could start bulbing our way through all the scientific techs around SM.

You're right, though. Without that FP and possibly without the other one, we're obviously not getting enough out of St Pete.

 

[Soirana]

deleted into oblivion

 

[Soirana]

deleted into oblivion
Triple sorry if i injured any of pure souls in this team.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

my favorite part in confs has to be the social event
Yeah, obviously we are not going to have TRs with India in mercantilism...

@mdy: I thiink we were going for fish/crab in the east as per Soirana's dotmap, not clam/crab? ... unless it's a typo
I don't have time to look at worker micro right now, but I'll try before you play...

@Babyblue: I agree GPfarm must do a university. Also I agree worker should chop that pre -chopped forest into the settler first. No point delaying settling.

I hate to be anal dick...I do not want to inuure your feelings, playstyle, country, [insert fancy things here]...Triple sorry if i injured any of pure souls in this team.

ing again...

Cheers

edit: tx for the map... not sure I can have a look before tomorow though.

 

[babybluepants]

I hate to be anal dick, but do you want me post picture of civpedia on mercantilism?

I do not want to inuure your feelings, playstyle, country, [insert fancy things here], but i suggest clicking a bit from save above to get general feeling of situation.

Overall I am okay if we want to simply play without testing and like that, but in such situation i prefer simply posting order of play and stopping this discussion.

Triple sorry if i injured any of pure souls in this team.

That makes more sense.

 

[shyuhe]

as well. I think I'm in the minority about the settling location so I'll accede to the others on that. Does the engineer in Moscow really speed up the settler that much? I'm more worried about GP pollution as we realiably need two GS.

 

[mdy]

That's the pre-chopped forest, right? Should we just put the chop in the settler right now?

That is the pre-chopped forest. I don't think it will make any difference whether we road/chop first.

Should we maybe park the south LB at the cow, in case we get to meet someone else on the other continent?

I would send the explorer there and leave the longbow to protect our 3rd city.

It might also need to build a university, assuming we want a reasonable date for Oxford... I'd like to know what our timeline is.

I estimate it would take about 25 turns to build a library+university there. We could start a GA and spend a few turns in slavery if we wanted to speed Oxford up.

I hate to be anal dick, but do you want me post picture of civpedia on mercantilism?

I do not want to inuure your feelings, playstyle, country, [insert fancy things here], but i suggest clicking a bit from save above to get general feeling of situation.

Overall I am okay if we want to simply play without testing and like that, but in such situation i prefer simply posting order of play and stopping this discussion.

Triple sorry if i injured any of pure souls in this team.

I forgot that effect of mercantilism(I almost never use it). We may as well still build the road to speed up settler movement though. I think our situation is now sufficiently complex that we can't viably test things in detail as we did in the earliest part of the game.

@mdy: I thiink we were going for fish/crab in the east as per Soirana's dotmap, not clam/crab? ... unless it's a typo

yes, that's a typo.

as well. I think I'm in the minority about the settling location so I'll accede to the others on that. Does the engineer in Moscow really speed up the settler that much? I'm more worried about GP pollution as we realiably need two GS.

I think it will speed up our final settler by 1 turn. We will generate 2 scientists in St Pete before Moscow generates a GP (this city already has GE pollution anyway)

 

[babybluepants]

That is the pre-chopped forest. I don't think it will make any difference whether we road/chop first.

You sure? I don't have access to the game now, but I think it takes 3t to road and 1t to chop, when the settler's supposed to be done in 5t without the chop. I think we're getting around 30-35hpt at the moment, and a chop is 82h, so 2t.

I would send the explorer there and leave the longbow to protect our 3rd city.

We do also have an LB on queue in Moscow, with 1t remaining. Maybe we could just complete it after this settler and use it for fogbusting in the south?

 

[Soirana]

partially deleted

Sorry for using up place in team and making lot of noice about irrelevant things.

Soirana.

 

[mdy]

Revised Plan:

St Petersburg:
build galley
hire all new citizens as scientists.
Use the first GS to found an academy in the capital

Moscow:
build settle, finish longbow, settler, settler
hire engineer instead of scientist to assist settler production.
first settler goes to found the city 2N 1E of crabs (first build a workboat, runs artist till border pops then engineer). second settler founds crab/fish city.

send longbow to help with fogbusting in South. Explorer moves to a position where it may be able to contact civs on the W continent/island.

worker west of St Pete roads the elephants (this should still allow us to found the 3rd city sooner) Then goes to improve city No 3.

worker 2 S of St Pete farms floodplain, chops forest to the east, goes to pre chop the crab/clam site

worker SE of St Pete chops forest, builds road and then the 2N of Moscow.

worker W of Moscow builds road (should enable us to found the W city 1 turn earlier), then road 1S and 2S of capital (allowing us to build crab/clam 1 turn earlier)

 

[babybluepants]

We is rather strong word. But as said before my attitude is simple no testing no point to go on.

Someone can PM me if general opinion changes or all other team members have played their round and you think it is mine playset.

Despite all your smilies I was serious about quitting further discussion as going in few more rounds on same topic probably won't change anyone's mind and i won't get neither fun, nor any other good thing of doing so.

Sorry for using up place in team and making lot of noice about irrelevant things.

Soirana.

That's too bade, dude. I'm finding the teamwork kinda frustrating at times, but I've learned quite a bit from you guys, and it is a pretty fun game variation. If you're not getting anything out of it (which seems pretty obvious), I don't really see the point... Let's see how the game goes from here, and maybe you can come back later.

 

[babybluepants]

@mdy,

I missed this yesterday, but shouldn't the third city build a WB before a library? The rest all sounds good to me.