SGOTM 10 - One Short Straw

[babybluepants]

He didn't culture bob St Pete, he only needs 750 culture for a border pop.

iron/crab/cow is a good site, but we would probably have problems holding the iron against Gandhi if he decides he wants the tile. Remember Gandhi has elephants now so longbows won't be enough. Building an extra worker directly would probably be cheaper than the extra military we will need to execute a worker steal.

edit: We can hold it provided we run enough artists to get 2 border pops fairly quickly. I think this is worth it if it is still available. This means we might need a 5th worker. Maybe we should go settler-settler-worker-settler.

I shouldn't drink and post... I don't actually think the worker steal is a good move at this point. We need to focus on expansion, and don't really wanna fight WE's and cats. I was half-joking about iron/cow/crab, though it probably is an option. I guess it depends on how much we wanna box him in.

I'm not entirely confident in my tile-culture understanding, but based on the percentages you posted, I think he's getting 11cpt in Bombay right now, up from 7cpt before St. Pete's border pop.

Spoiler :

St. Pete's initial border pop T285
St. Pete library T302
St. Pete second border pop T312

Tile Culture:

T308 1440: 70% 127-54
T312 1460: 65% 155-83 (7cpt-7cpt)
T315 1475: 67% 236-116 (27cpt-11cpt)

I guess he assigned an artist to combat our culture. If his pace is really that slow, he can't be even close to 750c. Let's say it's somewhere in the neighborhood of 250c - he would need 40t to horse, and we can do a second border pop in 19t of running 1 artist.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Revised plan, playing this afternoon unless we need more discussion.

eastern workers: the 3 workers can move on the rice and road it this turn, I would go for it. Then 2 workers finish the road toward the pasture. The third goes chop a forest for a wb in crab/fish city.
This worker moves then on the hill and mine it. The other boys pasture the horse. After that, they finish farming the capital and St Pet.

western worker: Finish chop -> mine riverside green hill ->improve furs -> farm riverside green tile

Moscow: settler -> settler -> worker
St Petersburg: Grow to happy cap (fur will come later) then hire max scientists, finish galley -> monastery. About the micro: by switching off 3 scientists during only one turn and working water during one turn, we can grow in two turns instead of 5 (rice road counted)... I think it's worth it.

Novgorod: rax -> lib.
micro: switch plain forest tile to crab. The chop will completes the wb anyway in two turns. We gain some food this way.

New city: work two artists to pop borders. build wb -> wb first one done with a chop.
After 1st border pop, keep one artist for the horse tile.

Settler in Moscow goes for GP farm north , or iron/cow/crab behind Gandhi (will check the area with the galley, then will go met Mao)
Southern LB kill axe and fogbust iron/silver.
LB in Novgorod moves toward that barb warrior.

OB with Roosevelt. Trade Maps with Roos.
Play till Nationalism, banking the St Pet. GS for bulb.

Raskolnikov

 

[babybluepants]

One worker's chopping for the settler, right? If he completes that, we shave 2t off the north city. The north city will need worker turns bad, as well. It needs mines... I would still prefer another worker after this settler. It's only a 2t build, but there's a pile of work to do.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

One worker's chopping for the settler, right? If he completes that, we shave 2t off the north city. The north city will need worker turns bad, as well. It needs mines... I would still prefer another worker after this settler. It's only a 2t build, but there's a pile of work to do.

Yeah, will complete the chop first... settler -> worker in Moscow was my initial idea, I can go for this if we all agree.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

The log:

Here is your Session Turn Log from 1475 AD to 1515 AD:

Turn 315, 1475 AD: Barbarian's Axeman (5.00) vs Stalin's Longbowman 4 (Moscow) (9.00)
Turn 315, 1475 AD: Combat Odds: 1.9%
Turn 315, 1475 AD: (Plot Defense: +50%)
Turn 315, 1475 AD: Barbarian's Axeman is hit for 26 (74/100HP)
Turn 315, 1475 AD: Barbarian's Axeman is hit for 26 (48/100HP)
Turn 315, 1475 AD: Barbarian's Axeman is hit for 26 (22/100HP)
Turn 315, 1475 AD: Barbarian's Axeman is hit for 26 (0/100HP)
Turn 315, 1475 AD: Stalin's Longbowman 4 (Moscow) has defeated Barbarian's Axeman!
Turn 315, 1475 AD: Gandhi has proven that the world is round!

Turn 317, 1485 AD: Rostov has been founded.
Turn 317, 1485 AD: The borders of Moscow have expanded!

Turn 318, 1490 AD: Stalin's Longbowman (6.00) vs Barbarian's Warrior (2.00)
Turn 318, 1490 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 318, 1490 AD: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 33 (67/100HP)
Turn 318, 1490 AD: Stalin's Longbowman is hit for 12 (88/100HP)
Turn 318, 1490 AD: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 33 (34/100HP)
Turn 318, 1490 AD: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 33 (1/100HP)
Turn 318, 1490 AD: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 33 (0/100HP)
Turn 318, 1490 AD: Stalin's Longbowman has defeated Barbarian's Warrior!
Turn 318, 1490 AD: The borders of Rostov have expanded!

Turn 319, 1495 AD: Xi Ling Shi (Great Scientist) has been born in St. Petersburg (Stalin)!

Turn 320, 1500 AD: Leonardo da Vinci (Great Engineer) has been born in a far away land!

Turn 321, 1505 AD: Angkor Wat has been built in a far away land!
Turn 321, 1505 AD: Pablo Picasso (Great Artist) has been born in Delhi (Gandhi)!

Turn 322, 1510 AD: Yaroslavl' has been founded.
Turn 322, 1510 AD: Clearing a Forest has created 44 ? for Rostov.
Turn 322, 1510 AD: Novgorod will grow to size 3 on the next turn.
Turn 322, 1510 AD: You have discovered Nationalism!

Turn 323, 1515 AD: Novgorod has grown to size 3.

Gandhi circumnavigated, and settled the iron/cow/crab site the turn I loaded the settler in the galley... he is also sending an artist to that city (look north west of Delhi).

Met an annoyed Mao and the barbarian continent is to our east...
One worker, the western LB, and the explorer are unmoved...
I started by hooking up fish first rather than crab in the horse city as it will increase our health cap (needed to grow St Pet of one pop)...we lost one turn of food though
We are trading crab to Gandhi for silk...

Here are some pics...

Spoiler :

Cheers,
Raskolnikov

 

[babybluepants]

The cow/iron was a long shot.

That is one tight continent with 4 aggressive ai's. There's gonna be some warring... Is he just gonna keep popping artists all game, the bastard?

Looks like some land to settle on the barb continent.

I can volunteer to do a test map with everything we know now. Have some time tmr.

 

[babybluepants]

Ok... I looked at the file. I guess there's no room on the barb continent, but it looks as if the west continent is open??? Hard to say exactly.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Ok... I looked at the file. I guess there's no room on the barb continent, but it looks as if the west continent is open??? Hard to say exactly.

Indeed... I guess we can try to send the explorer in the western islands to search for nice lands;

chopping notes: we should chop another forest in Rostov as the city will grow in 8 turns (wb is currently due in 20 turns), and the last one in Moscow to speed up the next settler. Finally Yaroslavl needs a chop/mine to build its wbs...

We should bulb education immediately also

I think Paulus is up but I am not sure how much time he has to participate...

Cheers

 

[mdy]

I agree that the continent to the W looks like it has potential for settling.

Should we start a library in Yarslavl and build the workboats else where in order to get the GS farm running ASAP?

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

I agree that the continent to the W looks like it has potential for settling.

Should we start a library in Yarslavl and build the workboats else where in order to get the GS farm running ASAP?

I thought at it... elsewhere is St Pet... so we have to choose between faster food (wb in St Pet) or faster pacifism bonus (missionary in St Pet)... I think doing at least one wb in St Pet between monastery and the missionary would greatly help the new city...

 

[babybluepants]

@RRRaskolnikov,

Edu should be in 4t? Maybe you can just play through. shyuhe would be next, I think, since Paulus hasn't been around for some time.

I'm thinking we could also use another galley or caravel soon, assuming we wanna have a go at the west continent. St. Pete has some demands on it... Now that we have a Edu GS, maybe we can slow down it's gpp rate a bit, if needed.

I'm halfway through a test map right now. I'll try and finish it later today.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

As the team wants... I can prolly squeeze 4 more turns tonight... if Shyuhe or TMIT plays my SG

I agree we need another galley (built in Novgorod prolly)... though now we have 5 cities (map is small) everything we build not being a lib/university delays Oxford... I think we need a bit of thinking to determine the good build order

In anycase, I will wait for your test map.

 

[shyuhe]

Yeah, I've finally wrapped up my backlog of work (I hope). So I'll actually have some time for civ again!

 

[babybluepants]

Ok, I was gonna play through to current date, but no more time for this today, or tmr... I think I worldbuildered everything we now see on the map. I pre-built all the barb cities with pop 1, and put Christianity in The Holy City. Took a few liberties: Mao's and DeGaulle's start locations, DeGaulle's land and resources, and some barb land. The west continent is missing, other than the few tiles we see. Put some notes in the WB file describing these things... Also, I don't really understand WB diplo - I somehow managed to introduce us to Churchill, and don't know how to change that.

 

[babybluepants]

WB file. Didn't realize you couldn't just upload them.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Thanks Babybluepants... I'll have a look tomorow and play after some more discussion...

@Shyuhe: welcome back in business!

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

OK I had a look at the map but can't replay today unfortunatly... I have no idea of how to change diplo though I will perhaps have a look if I find time today but nothing sure...

@team: Any suggestions for the next 4 turns? Basically the things to decide are St Pet and the new GP farm build orders. I can play tonight if we agree. (see my previous posts for my opinion on that )

Ras

 

[babybluepants]

One micro question: should we re-assign the crab to Yaroslavl for faster growth? I was thinking that we would need our next GS for Chem, which comes after Lib and GP (assuming we can't trade for GP), then probably Astro, SM in quick succession. We'd need to do some calcs for what's optimal, regarding the switch from St Pete to Yaro. I'm guessing we want St Pete to get one more out before Yaro takes over.

Where's our next settler going? If it's ice island, then we'll need to really beeline the galley there. Should we build a galley in Novgorod, to explore the west continent? I know it delays the library, but I imagine Novgorod's well ahead of the two new cities in the Oxford timeline.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Switching the crab to Yaro implies we drop two scientsts in St Pet. I don't have any idea of how many turns we need for liberalism, so I let you do the math to see if it's worth it or no (if you don't, I will do it before playing, no pressure )... If we have lib in more than 14 turns and still more than the time for next GP with your micro change, I think it's a nice move

As we have no hope to get that hill back in Novgorod, I have no objections to switch to a galley now (lib culture would be useless)...

 

[babybluepants]

Bump.

Switching the crab to Yaro implies we drop two scientsts in St Pet. I don't have any idea of how many turns we need for liberalism, so I let you do the math to see if it's worth it or no (if you don't, I will do it before playing, no pressure )...

I haven't had any time for this game the last couple of days. I'll have some time this weekend for testing. When were you planning to play? Without doing a precise calculation, I think we're better off switching the crab, even if only for a period at first. We should still get the next GS in under 20t. Yaro is pulling up the rear atm. It's gonna be the slowest to university and still needs NE reasonably soon.

On an unrelated note, we're almost at the end of the test period we were initially playing through. Now that we know so much of the map setup, we could probably run some longer simulations, both research phase and actual warring. If anyone has a couple of hours to kill sometime... I, for one, have yet to ever build a nuke