SGOTM 10 - One Short Straw

Hi :hatsoff:,

I was pretty busy myself too, sorry about that... Problem is I am unlikely to be able to play tonight, but tomorow will be fine if you guys can wait one more day... :D
I will have a look into Yaro later though I agree with what you said...

As for hours of testing, if I get a bit more free time, I should be able to play a bit your map this week end. note the "if" :mischief: :)

Ras
 
Me, too. I'm just being an ass and relaying responsibility. ;)

I think I can play-test for a few hours this weekend, though.
 
Finally got a chance to look here. Everything looks more or less according to plan. Only note is that Rostov should have fired its artists a while ago. I don't think an artist will really help us in this game.

So there are lots of tiny islands out there that we can grab, although it looks like we'll definitely need state property in the late game for this map, given the huge continent. It doesn't look like any of the AI have gone towards liberalism yet, although we'll need to make contact with the last 2 AI to make sure. The next GS is for education, which means we should start thinking about liberalism right? Do we want to go astronomy so that we can try grabbing more of those islands and cut down on the nuke fest later? They should be worthwhile with oversea trade routes.

Taj is another thing we need to plan for. Moscow is a bit busy with settlers and I don't think any of our other cities have enough production to really make a good push at it. Once Yaroslav's borders pop, it should switch to WB to get food, then go towards NE. In the meantime, after St. P pops the next GS, I think it should switch to hammer tiles and start construction of the Taj. It'll help that stupid border fight and we shouldn't need two concurrent GP farms. The GS will bulb most of education so I don't think we want to be researching education right now. I'd put research on PP while waiting for the GS, then swapping back to education.

I'll try fiddling with the test map if I have some time later today too.
 
PS. We're second in score as of this date so we must be doing something right!

PPS. Now that I've finished up one of my SG's, I should have more time for this :) Since the deadline is coming up soon, we should try to get the ball rolling again. RRR - are you still going to play some more turns or is the next player up?
 
I am playing now Shyuhe... That's 4 turns till education so expect the save in an hour or so :)
I should have more time for this too now that botm and deity cathy SG are over...
 
hum I missed your last but one post... why should we hold on education? Getting started on universities sooner is the best way to shorten time to nukes... I can't play if we don't agree on this :)

About Rostov, idea is to get a second border pop to secure the horse tile away from indians. We discussed about that in posts just before my turns :)

Where to put the Taj? I am confused... do you want it in Moscow or St Pet? I think St Pet stands no chance without marble and Moscow very few too... I am afraid it will be rushed asa an AI gets nationalism. Thus I would try in Moscow as it's our best city.

Future GP farm can do one or two of its wbs then start on the NE (unless we want lib -> uni before, it depends on which cities will be the last to complete its uni).
 
shyuhe said:
Finally got a chance to look here. Everything looks more or less according to plan. Only note is that Rostov should have fired its artists a while ago. I don't think an artist will really help us in this game.

So there are lots of tiny islands out there that we can grab, although it looks like we'll definitely need state property in the late game for this map, given the huge continent. It doesn't look like any of the AI have gone towards liberalism yet, although we'll need to make contact with the last 2 AI to make sure. The next GS is for education, which means we should start thinking about liberalism right? Do we want to go astronomy so that we can try grabbing more of those islands and cut down on the nuke fest later? They should be worthwhile with oversea trade routes.

Taj is another thing we need to plan for. Moscow is a bit busy with settlers and I don't think any of our other cities have enough production to really make a good push at it. Once Yaroslav's borders pop, it should switch to WB to get food, then go towards NE. In the meantime, after St. P pops the next GS, I think it should switch to hammer tiles and start construction of the Taj. It'll help that stupid border fight and we shouldn't need two concurrent GP farms. The GS will bulb most of education so I don't think we want to be researching education right now. I'd put research on PP while waiting for the GS, then swapping back to education.

I'll try fiddling with the test map if I have some time later today too.
Click to expand...

Are we not Libbing Const? I was always assuming we would, and also go for Chem quickly, as it leads to Comm and makes workshops solid. PP is the next thing a GS will wanna bulb. We need to tech either GP or PP next, but I was hoping the AI's would get something along those lines to trade for before we get to Liberalism.

If we're switching GP farms, I guess the Taj makes sense. We should keep an eye out for AI's teching Nat, though. We could get beat by another GE easily.

EDIT: What RRaskolnikov said makes more sense. It's a bit of a long shot.

shyuhe said:
PS. We're second in score as of this date so we must be doing something right!

PPS. Now that I've finished up one of my SG's, I should have more time for this Since the deadline is coming up soon, we should try to get the ball rolling again.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure how MW got off to such a monster start... They pretty obviously have Lib already, and they have a steep early culture graph which probably translates into more land tiles counting. That still doesn't quite add up. Other than that, we seem pretty even with a few other teams, but I think we'll move forward well, with all the vertical growth coming up.

Yeah, we should bust a move now. There's not that much time and a lot of game left.

On a completely unrelated note, I got engaged yesterday! :D I'm sure you couldn't care less, but I'm just very excited and need to tell lots and lots of people. Plus, it probably means no time for civ this week.

PS: Congrats on the botm, RRR! :goodjob: I played one quick session, saw all the desert and a protective neighbor, and thought f........orget this.
 
I thought we would lib constitution then go gunpowder -> chemestry -> MS -> communism too.
Astro gives obs, but i think those can wait as we have plenty to build to land Oxford anyway. Also we can reach AIs and west/eastern continents by galleys, so galleons can wait too. Finally mercantilism makes TRs a non issue. Even when we switch in state property, we will have foreign TRs right away iirc.

... so... if we agree at least on education next, I play four turns to complete it now, otherwise, I think it's better next player takes it as we would need more discussion and I have the save for too many days already! :)

@BBP: tx! I saw desert and a protective neighbour and thought: "Ras, stop sleeping and do it!" :lol:
 
OK... I will play till education then (I hope Shyuhe wouldn't mind) as we are three over four to agree already :) Expect the save in one hour...

edit: now I am thinking at it, we should go wb -> lib -> uni in yaro as NE can wait a bit (we are building a monastery and a missionary in St Pet for pacifism bonus in Yaro)... bulbed education and it's 2 turns finally...
 
Here is your Session Turn Log from 1515 AD to 1525 AD:

Turn 323, 1515 AD: Novgorod has grown to size 3.

Turn 324, 1520 AD: You have discovered Education!

Turn 325, 1525 AD: The borders of Yaroslavl' are about to expand.

New save is up! :)
No AIs has a tech... at least the ones we know... we should build one more wb and send it to meet DG and the others hiding in the fog.

As I said, I would go for the uni in new GP farm before NE as we we'll be in pacifism. We really need more workers... working water to grow is painfull :) Lots of things needed! :crazyeye: (to be more precise Yaro needs Three wbs, lib, uni, NE; St pet is building monastery -> missionary, and we need one wb for exploration...so where to build the wbs is a bit problematic. and those damn workers...)

Cheers
 
I think you're up, shyuhe.

Yeah, we're getting kinda short on workers now. Without serfdom, those lazy bastards take a long way to do their thing.

I don't think we need to worry about tech path for now. I'd bank the next GS, and wait 'till we complete Lib. The AI's should have some techs by then, so hopefully we can get a trade or two going before we proceed.

What's our next city? I'm a bit worried about the ice island now, as it might be connected to the barb continent. Wouldn't wanna get completely swarmed down there. It looks like the settler and galley builds are nicely lined up for a sheep/cow or sheep/something else city in about 10t. On the other hand, hooking up either of the irons would be nice.

Should our first galley go meet Ch and DG, or go down to explore the barb continent / ice island? Other than confirming that we're ahead in the Lib race, I'm not sure what the immediate benefit of meeting the other AI's would be since none of them know any techs...

Micro: We do need that second border pop in Rostov, but working horse for 3t could really speed up growth for 2t off the border pop. I would do some calcs first, to see what works out better...
 
babybluepants said:
What's our next city? I'm a bit worried about the ice island now, as it might be connected to the barb continent. Wouldn't wanna get completely swarmed down there. It looks like the settler and galley builds are nicely lined up for a sheep/cow or sheep/something else city in about 10t. On the other hand, hooking up either of the irons would be nice.

Should our first galley go meet Ch and DG, or go down to explore the barb continent / ice island? Other than confirming that we're ahead in the Lib race, I'm not sure what the immediate benefit of meeting the other AI's would be since none of them know any techs...

Micro: We do need that second border pop in Rostov, but working horse for 3t could really speed up growth for 2t off the border pop. I would do some calcs first, to see what works out better...
Click to expand...

I think silver site should be next, be it on the barb continent or not... it gives iron and two happiness in all our cities :)
Meeting the other AIs is for intel (true we won't get modifiers right away as we are first in techs most likely)... it's best to know what they are doing than guessing it... no? :)
I confess I wasn't sure of the good option in Rostov... currently the chop will complete the wb in time to work the second sea food... perhaps the micro can be better! :)

Cheers

PS the galley in the east was to pick up Moscow settler and land it near the iron/silver site...
 
I think our immediate priority should be to get Oxford built. I suspect the fish/iron site will enable us to get it quicker. If we used our next GS to start a golden age we could revolt to slavery anarchy free at the same time we switched to representation. We should be in a position to whip all the universities just after this point.
 
So some macro thoughts:

Moscow - go settler/worker/worker
St. P - finish monastery (7 turns), then missionary
Rostov - finish WB (chop)--WB (scout) -- library; fire artists and set them to work, hire bonus spec. as a scientist
Yaroslav - WB--WB--(whip worker at size 4) -- WB -- library
Novgorod - Galley -- (whip worker at size 4) -- library

Workers will start farming near Moscow/St. P, Yaroslav worker mines, Rostov worker chain irrigates, Novgorod worker camps then farms.

Continue current GP production plans (GS in 11 from St. P).

Diplo - nothing new; send scouting WB to find last two AI. Maybe we'll get a tech discount if they've finished something useful (unlikely). At least it'll give us tabs on liberalism.

Wonders - I don't see any room to start the Taj :( But nobody has the tech yet so we should be ok for now.

New cities - Up for debate? Fish/iron seems reasonable, settling 1S of iron. I can also see settling somewhere on the big continent near the river, settling the double fish island, or settling the sheep/clam site near the barbs.

Teching - Leave research on liberalism while banking gold for a 100% run. Turn slider on once the monastery in St. P completes. We'll be getting libraries online shortly and there's no need to hurry to liberalism until we can get there running 100%.

So I think the only real point of discussion here is where to put our next city? Also, we only need 5 universities for Oxford. I see Moscow, St. P, Yaroslav, Rostov (workshop), and I guess Novgorod? Novgorod with workshops will have pretty good production.
 
I was thinking we could use some more longbows soonish, if we wanna move off continent. Novgorod is the only city with barracks atm...

Are we whipping?! :confused: You wanna switch out of Caste now?

Without more knowledge of the map, it's hard to choose anything but silver/iron or fish/iron right now. Hopefully we'll find a couple of sites in the west with the galley/exp soon.
 
Agree with the plan. I am still for fish/iron/silver site for our next city for happiness (+2).

@babyblue: I think Shyuhe and mdy are suggesting to swicth in slavery (prolly together with OR) only during the GA. Ideally we can have 5 unis (cities mentionned by Shyuhe are perfectly fine by me) whipped and switch back in pacifism/caste after that.

Cheers
 
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