SGOTM 10 - Smurkz

[Niklas]

Latest version, taking the sheep into the picture:


In this scenario we leave the game tile unchopped, instead chopping the forest tile next to it. Benefits over the previous one are an extra curragh or warrior (which could possibly be traded for a one-turn speed up on the first two settlers, no effect in the long run), the second worker comes online one turn faster, and the settler pump is running at 3.5->5.5 which means even lower luxury rate.

One thing worth noting: It is possible to run Smurkzdon as a 5-turn combo factory producing 2 warriors and a settler, or some 20-shield unit plus a settler, at 5.0->7.0. We are one shield short of running a 4-turn warrior-settler combo.

Also noteworthy is that once the settler pump is running, the game tile is all but unused (except to provide the +2s on growth which a mined hills could do instead). This means we could give it to a secondary town, possibly chopping it for faster growth there. We could also chop it, irrigate it and use it in the pump, letting the sheep go to some other town. However, if we want to run the 2-warrior combo factory later on we need it with the forest intact (for a single 20-shield unit we don't).

If I hear nothing in the next 30 mins or so, I'll keep playing after this schema.

EDIT: Crosspost with zyxy. The granary can't handle 7.5, it doesn't exactly empty but you need more to fill it up.

EDIT2: Oh, and the last two lines are just to show that we can easily have a 2-turn worker pump if we like.

EDIT3: Changed the spread sheet to a correct one.

 

[Niklas]

>>The Save<<

4000 BC (0):
Settler moves NE, worker SE. Worker uncovers more hills to the east, and what could be a lake or more sea.

3950 BC (1):
Settle Smurkzdon NE of the starting location, and the stuff hiding in the fog turns out to be a flock of Sheep (+2f, +1s, like a cow) on the plains. Great! But the spread sheet needs to be reworked a bit, with that powerful tile to use.

Reworking spread sheep... eh, sheets.

Smurkzdon is set to build a warrior, ETA 5 turns. Worker starts mining the BG.

MMing:
Lone citizen is set to working the BG tile.

Research:
Research is set to Writing at 100%. We are currently doing 5 bpt, which gives an ETA of 48 turns as Writing costs 240 beakers. This will drop dramatically.

3900-3750 BC (2-5): Nothing happens, just press end turn.

IBT: Smurkzdon warrior->curragh

3700 BC (6):
Our newly commissioned scout, duly named Pug, moves E to the hills. Sees some desert and a FP.

IBT: Worker finishes mine

3650 BC (7):
Pug moves E, sees a few more hills. Worker starts road.

3600 BC (8):
Pug moves S onto hills, notes a marsh beyond the hills.

IBT: We get a strange message:



Guess that answers the question about them having some special trick up their sleeve...

3550 BC (9):
Pug moves S, uncovers a vast stretch of marshes, and some fish.

IBT: Worker finishes road on the BG.

3500 BC (10):
ETA on Writing dropped to 34 (i.e. 43 when counted from the start).

Worker moves W to the forest, gets a good view across the bay. More sheep. Pug moves S through the marshes.

IBT: Smurkzdon curragh->granary. Smurkzdon grows to size 2 and cultural borders expand.

3450 BC (11):
Our first curragh, named Huzzah, moves NE-N. With DNM and the seafaring trait our curraghs have 5 moves, so we can make them moves three tiles by going sea-sea-coast.

Worker starts chopping the woods. Pug keeps trekking south through the wetlands.

MMing:
Citizens are set to work the BG and the forest. Lux rate is set to 10%, again upping the ETA on Writing to 38 (or 48 cf start).

3400 BC (12):
Huzzah moves 3W across the bay. Pug moves S.

IBT: Didn't take very long...



3350 BC (13):
Huzzah N-W. Pug S.

MMing: Move the citizen from the forest to the game. Growth is sufficiently delayed.

3300 BC (14):
Huzzah NW-W-S. Pug S, finds a cow and possibly the southern shore(?).

IBT: Worker finishes the forest chop. 10 shields to the granary.

3250 BC (15):
Worker moves E. Huzzah moves SW-S.
Pug moves S and sees a hut. Should be safe to pop since we're far from the capitol in case of barbies.

IBT: Volcano is active S of the wetlands.

3200 BC (16):
Worker moves E onto the wheat. Huzzah moves SW-S-E. Pug moves S.

3150 BC (17):
Worker irrigates wheat. Huzzah moves S-S-E. Pug moves E.

IBT: An Inca Chasqui scout shows up just outside Smurkzdon.

3100 BC (18):
Diplomacy:
Inca have BW, Mas, WC and CB. They don't have Alpha. They would trade any one tech straight up for Alpha, or BW+CB for Alpha+9gp. I'm going to leave it right there and finish my turns, the situation should be the same 2 turns from now, and we can discuss it.

Huzzah moves S-SE-E. Pug moves NW and gets three angry barbie warriors on his tail. Good thing he's on a mountain. Beyond those mountains is jungle with dyes, first lux so far.

IBT: Chasqui Scout circles our borders, another shows up to the north. Pug is attacked by one barbie, defends flawlessly. The other two don't care.

3050 BC (19):
Huzzah moves S-SE-E. Pug moves S to hills.

Check the diplomacy screen again, the trade costs are still the same so Pachahuti isn't researching Alpha it seems.

3000 BC (20):
Leave Huzzah and Pug unmoved for next player.

Not much hand-off notes, the spread sheet says it all.

EDIT: The spread sheet was not quite correct however, there were two places where the schema said forest but where the forest was already chopped. It was just a matter of using the forests a bit earlier though so no big deal. I'll change the picture in the previous post to show the correct tiles.

 

[CommandoBob]

"Technology Thieves"?

Sounds like a way to keep the SOBs interesting in this game. Possibly a super-duper version of the Great Library, but may take three Civs, not two, to trigger its effect. Or maybe it is tied to how advanced we are. Impossible to tell at this point, but if the SOBs can suck technology from other civs...well, we have an opponent worthy of us.

If TT is what it sounds like to me, then is there a way to keep the other civs backwards or at war with each other while we try to hunt down SOBs and exterminate them?

 

[azzaman333]

I am terrible at MMing, and often with city placement as well so i would definately prefer if i was closer to the back of the roster. If thats okay with you guys.

 

[zyxy]

Nice play! Let's just hope that that Chasqui knows how to behave...

The 'pedia says that the Technology Thieves is a cheap and never expiring GLib. But I don't know how accurate that info is.

@azzaman333: actually there will not be any cities to place in the next 10 turns, and MM-ing is on the spreadsheet. But if you want, I'm sure Niklas can switch you around. In any case, decisions such as city placement are team decisions IMO.

 

[McLMan]

Odd, cryptic discussion going on in the maintenance thread. What do you guys think they're talking about?

 

[Niklas]

I wonder that too, but I'm trying to push it from my mind since I trust the admin's decision. According to the discussion it's something we'll find out about sooner rather than later, so I guess we can just play on and see.

@az: (yeah, you'll all be abbr. soon enough ) If you don't want to play a turnset this early, I'll move you to back in the roster, no problem. This gives us the following roster:

• Niklas - Just Played
• McLMan - UP!
• CommandoBob - On Deck!
• zyxy
• Marc Aurel
• azzaman333

So, McLMan, go for it!

I think there is little to say regarding the next 10 turns, the spread sheet should cover most things. One thing you might want to consider is to switch the order for the next warrior and curragh in case we don't trust Pachahuti. We'll be paying some upkeep for units until we get our second town settled, but that's life.

 

[Methos]

lurker's comment: Interesting variant. I'm curious how this one plays out. Good luck Team Smurkz (from the side)

 

[zyxy]

On the next turnset: I think it would be better to build the warrior before the curragh, to scout some land for the second city. South east along the river looks quite good, perhaps one of the forests east of the river next to the bg would be reasonably good. West is nice too, but can probably wait - this is our backyard. What direction did the Chasqui come from?

@Methos: thanks!

Odd, cryptic discussion going on in the maintenance thread. What do you guys think they're talking about?

I think I know. If you don't want to see it, don't look at the spoiler.

Spoiler :

The barbarians can conduct spy missions. In particular, sabotage. In the maintenance thread it is stated that this feature could cost you the F(orbidden) P(alace). This is the only thing that I can come up with that would do that.

 

[CommandoBob]

Odd, cryptic discussion going on in the maintenance thread. What do you guys think they're talking about?

They're talking about something that does not belong in a thread.

I plan to ignore the maintenance thread for a while or until AlanH says that something important has been posted there. Or unposted there.

We had severe gameplay issues in the last game, and it was handled through the maintenance thread. The system works; just PM the Mods with your concerns and trust them to do the right thing.

 

[McLMan]

Niklas - Just Played
McLMan - UP!
CommandoBob - On Deck!
zyxy
Marc Aurel
azzaman333

Ok, unless somebody speaks up, I'll play tonight. Follow the spreadsheet, report any new findings. I will switch the build to a warrior. I don't see any sense in being risky at this point.

If I get stumped, I know where to come for help.

 

[Niklas]

The Chasqui both came from a general E-ish direction, probably NE-ish.

Regarding city placements, we should keep in mind that we get +1 commerce in the center in any town on the coast. Ther first few towns will probably still be better off along the river, but in particular the site 2SE-S between the sheep and the game looks like a good candidate. I assume that towns near lakes don't get the bonus? The lakes to the SE make for some really nice lands to settle, but that means clearing a lot of wetlands first.
Upwards along the coast would be good to chart out, our second curragh will take care of that for us. I would take the second warrior more or less straight E, or possibly even keep him at home to save us luxury cost.

@McLMan: I hope you mean to switch after the granary has completed. Good luck!

 

[zyxy]

Ok, unless somebody speaks up, I'll play tonight. Follow the spreadsheet, report any new findings. I will switch the build to a warrior. I don't see any sense in being risky at this point.

If I get stumped, I know where to come for help.

Sounds good. Switch to warrior after the worker you mean?
On the trades: it's up to you of course, but I would probably hold off. Inca probably know someone as they have 5 techs already. But they offer full price for alpha (CB+BW is same value as Alpha), so their contact doesn't have alpha. meaning we're better off finding more contacts first.
If their scout came from E-NE, we should probably head that way with our warrior, and use lux tax for now to keep the capital happy. Most land seems to be E anyway.

 

[AlanH]

lurker's comment: Please note that there are two distinct resources called 'lambs' and 'sheep'. Not only do they have different stats, but one is a luxury. I notice you may be treating them as synonymous.

 

[Gyathaar]

lurker's comment: Please note that there are two distinct resources called 'lambs' and 'sheep'. Not only do they have different stats, but one is a luxury. I notice you may be treating them as synonymous.

Tsk, tsk.. giving wrong info to throw them off?

There are 3 resources.. lambs, sheep and wool..

 

[Niklas]

Umm, that doesn't seem quite right, AlanH.
It's true that 'lambs' and 'sheep' are different, but both of the occurences that we've found so far have been of the 'sheep' variety, i.e. +2f +1s. Lambs on the other hand have only the +2f. The fullfledged luxury is yet another version, called 'wool', and is +2f +1s +1c and a luxury.

You know I'm the master of meta-information mining - should I construe your comment to mean that there is a 'wool' luxury somewhere close by that we haven't found yet?

The discussion on the resources is here.

EDIT: Cross-post with Gyathaar.
EDIT2: The link I gave has some wrong info, which is mirrored in the resource graphics - olives give +1f +2c and not the other way around.

 

[AlanH]

Sorry. I thought you were seeing lambs and thinking they were sheep. Also I've been away from playing too long and forgot about wool. Please ignore my post.

I'll now go away and hide.

 

[McLMan]

Sounds good. Switch to warrior after the worker you mean?
On the trades: it's up to you of course, but I would probably hold off. Inca probably know someone as they have 5 techs already. But they offer full price for alpha (CB+BW is same value as Alpha), so their contact doesn't have alpha. meaning we're better off finding more contacts first.
If their scout came from E-NE, we should probably head that way with our warrior, and use lux tax for now to keep the capital happy. Most land seems to be E anyway.

Yes, I mean after the worker.

Thank you for bringing up the trades. I usually try to hold off from trading until I know at least 2 other Civs. If I meet another Civ during my turnset I'll most likely come to the team to discuss what to do trade wise.

A couple of questions.
1) If I have a problem is it ok for me to post a save here in the thread and not on the progress & results page?
2) Am I supposed to post the save to the progress & results page at the end of my turnset or is Niklas after I post it here?

 

[McLMan]

Preturn
Opening screen greeted to a display of pug's meeting with seedy characters. Insticts tell me to run away. (They're on mountains after all!) So Pug heads. Curragh continues down coast. Hit Enter

IT
Granary completed -> Worker
Get message from domestic advisor

Running 90% research, 10% lux at -1gpt. 10g in the treasury. Can drop to 70% research and get writing in 30 (0gpt), but will hold at 90 for now.

Turn 1) 2950 BC
Worker finishes irrigation of wheat. Begin building road.
Pug, heading South, finds goats along the West coast.

IT
Chasqui Scout disappears into the fog to our West
Pug's barbs heading E and S

Turn 2) 2900 BC
Pug moves SE to a hill, to take another peek below us before heading E and hello.

Theodora is up BW, WC, & CB. We have nothing to offer her. And here we stop for now. The only thing she doesn't have that the Inca have is Masonry. I can trade Alphabet straight up for Masonry, but can't get anything else with it. I could then turn around and trade Masonry to Theodora for ??? According to CAII, Masonry doesn't carry enough value to get more than one tech out of her. If we trade, which one? We should be able to trade Masonry straight up for any 1 tech (BW, WC, or CB).

I haven't made any trades, and am waiting for discussion.

 

[zyxy]

1) If I have a problem is it ok for me to post a save here in the thread and not on the progress & results page?
2) Am I supposed to post the save to the progress & results page at the end of my turnset or is Niklas after I post it here?

Answers:
1) I would post it here, it's much easier. Post as attachment (not upload), then the risk of some unauthorized person accidentally downloading it is minimal.
2) You do it please.

Other things:
phewww, that Chasqui scout didn't finish us when he had the chance. Good call on research, no point keeping cash around at this stage.

On trades: I don't know. Masonry + BW (or similar) for Alpha is not a lot, and we don't really need any of these techs right now. We will have to hold back on trading writing away until we have CoL at least, so not much opportunity after that.

Let's see: Byz are seafaring + scientific, so start with Alpha + BW. Inca are Agri + Exp, and start with Pott + Masonry. So Inca have discovered BW, WC, CB (total base cost: 8), and Byz have discovered WC, CB and Pott (total base cost: 7). AI's research at regent level IIRC, so this would come down to 192 beakers and 168 beakers respectively, at monopoly price (factor 24). We accumulated about 100 beakers sofar, so this seems a bit much. (AI's do get an extra worker and 20% discount on growth/production, but I doubt this would nearly double the gold output). Obviously, they could have popped some tech(s).
So my best bet is that each knows more civs. Inca has no money, that reinforces the point. Perhaps we can estimate how long it would take for Inca and Byz to meet each other, and hold back for that many turns? Btw, do Byz have any money?