SGOTM 10 - Team CFR
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
1. He will stay in war mode, at least for cities 2 tiles away.
2. BtS AI is good at working tiles outside your unit's reach. Getting hill-runner lbow and forest-runner mace will help us big time - unless it was fixed by BUFFY mod.
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1. Города ИИ в радиусе 2 клеток будут в режиме войны.
2. ИИ в БТС спокойно работает рабами вне досягаемости юнитов. Тут бы нам неслабо помогли холмобеги и лесобеги - если в моде это не пофиксили
2. BtS AI is good at working tiles outside your unit's reach. Getting hill-runner lbow and forest-runner mace will help us big time - unless it was fixed by BUFFY mod.
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1. Города ИИ в радиусе 2 клеток будут в режиме войны.
2. ИИ в БТС спокойно работает рабами вне досягаемости юнитов. Тут бы нам неслабо помогли холмобеги и лесобеги - если в моде это не пофиксили
akots
Poet
It would be easier of course to declare when there is an opportunity to kill a settler or if there is a real threat him hooking ivory or iron. It might be possible to wait for a few turns. Important area to control is east-north of Delhi and ideally, we should not allow him to improve it.
With war, he will start building triremes in large numbers and we would have to defend the seafood somehow and prevent him from blockading Moscow. may be not a big deal however. If we would have a couple of macemen with forester and he does not have iron, his development might be completely crippled.
He also should have a second city somewhere, we just don't see it yet. Unless his other settler mysteriously disappeared.
With war, he will start building triremes in large numbers and we would have to defend the seafood somehow and prevent him from blockading Moscow. may be not a big deal however. If we would have a couple of macemen with forester and he does not have iron, his development might be completely crippled.
He also should have a second city somewhere, we just don't see it yet. Unless his other settler mysteriously disappeared.
He didn't settle his second yet, but should do it in 1-3 turns. Then we'll trade maps again and learn its location.
Good point about boats, this may indeed cause some problems. But we can always make peace for some gold in case of emergency, so there is no risk. I am sure that we should attack with our starting longbows, without waiting to build maces, etc. The biggest question for me is wait for a worker steal, or attack ASAP. Unfortunately we cannot tell which is more optimal in advance, because we don't know which tiles Gandhi is going to improve first.
I am going to continue playing tonight. The decision about the war will depend on the situation.
Good point about boats, this may indeed cause some problems. But we can always make peace for some gold in case of emergency, so there is no risk. I am sure that we should attack with our starting longbows, without waiting to build maces, etc. The biggest question for me is wait for a worker steal, or attack ASAP. Unfortunately we cannot tell which is more optimal in advance, because we don't know which tiles Gandhi is going to improve first.
I am going to continue playing tonight. The decision about the war will depend on the situation.
I'm for waiting to gain some profit on war declaration - i.e., workers. To prevent Gandhi from improving Iron, we can just station a longbow and possibly explorer (stronger than lbow on defence in woods) to cover the hit one.
As our plan does not yet reach the stage of settlers and libraries, see no need for revision, except for maybe a caravel agaist triremes. I'm also not sure AI will build triremes solely for pillaging once it can produce caravels - so maybe no risk here either.
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Я бы подождал гешефта в войне (т.е. раба
. Чтобы не дать Ганди окучивать железо, можно припарковать рядом длиннолук и эксплорера (в защите в лесу отпинается от длиннолука для прикрытия и разведки.
Поскольку мы еще не дошли в плане до сеттлеров и библы, пока можно играть по плану. Единственное - вставить каравеллу, если увидим триремы Ганди, но я не думаю, что он будет их строить только для пилладжа и блокады, если можнт строить каравеллы.
As our plan does not yet reach the stage of settlers and libraries, see no need for revision, except for maybe a caravel agaist triremes. I'm also not sure AI will build triremes solely for pillaging once it can produce caravels - so maybe no risk here either.
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Я бы подождал гешефта в войне (т.е. раба
. Чтобы не дать Ганди окучивать железо, можно припарковать рядом длиннолук и эксплорера (в защите в лесу отпинается от длиннолука для прикрытия и разведки.Поскольку мы еще не дошли в плане до сеттлеров и библы, пока можно играть по плану. Единственное - вставить каравеллу, если увидим триремы Ганди, но я не думаю, что он будет их строить только для пилладжа и блокады, если можнт строить каравеллы.
Played untill turn 9.
Gandhi settled his 2nd city on our ivory. There was nothing that could be done about that, it was escorted by 2 longbows and moved on top of hills. Hopefully other teams will have similar problems.
On turn 9 we are ready for a worker steal:
We can buy world map from Gandhi for 5 gold, and then DOW.
Gandhi settled his 2nd city on our ivory. There was nothing that could be done about that, it was escorted by 2 longbows and moved on top of hills. Hopefully other teams will have similar problems.
On turn 9 we are ready for a worker steal:
We can buy world map from Gandhi for 5 gold, and then DOW.
akots
Poet
Ok, DOW now sounds reasonable. The main problem is where we are going to settle our 5 so-much-desired cities? There is some location north of St Petersburg but otherwise, they might have to be overseas to the east. Also, some military protection might be needed. Not many units if hooking up ivory and iron by India can be prevented.
Does AI start with 2 workers or 1? If 1, stealing this one will kill Gandhi expansion.
What will Gandhi most likely do after we declare and keep military in their fat cross:
- build 1 more lbow in Bombay, as during war minimal 2-unit requirement for garrison is increased
- build 2(? - how many do they have at start?) lbows for the same sake in Delhi; maybe 3
- only then - workers to replace the stolen one
- and only then - some units tp drive us from their lands or settler.
So we have quite some time on our hands.
What will Gandhi most likely do after we declare and keep military in their fat cross:
- build 1 more lbow in Bombay, as during war minimal 2-unit requirement for garrison is increased
- build 2(? - how many do they have at start?) lbows for the same sake in Delhi; maybe 3
- only then - workers to replace the stolen one
- and only then - some units tp drive us from their lands or settler.
So we have quite some time on our hands.
They start with only 1 worker, 4 longbows. All longbows have CITY_DEFENSE AI.
Bombay will cause a lot of problems, because of holy city culture. Teams that sent their settler(s) inland will gain a serious advantage now (I think it was possible to guess from the scenario settings, that we are likely to have a close neighbor). There is still some land available south of SPB, and maybe on the peninsula north of Moscow. If we cripple Gandhi, we could use the land south or even west of Bombay/Delhi. Then I think we need a WB rather soon to explore the eastern islands.
Bombay will cause a lot of problems, because of holy city culture. Teams that sent their settler(s) inland will gain a serious advantage now (I think it was possible to guess from the scenario settings, that we are likely to have a close neighbor). There is still some land available south of SPB, and maybe on the peninsula north of Moscow. If we cripple Gandhi, we could use the land south or even west of Bombay/Delhi. Then I think we need a WB rather soon to explore the eastern islands.
Corrected plan to account for Gandhi's worker who will be sent to the hill 1SW of Moscow. The worker that improved that hill in the original plan will be sent south instead to build a road to our 3rd city that will probably be in the south.
Turn 9, 1330 - Borders of SPB expand. Two workers that finished chopping start farming corn. Moscow builds worker, starts WB. New worker moves onto the gold hill (we will need it very soon for happiness). DOW Gandhi and capture his worker.
Turn 10, 1335 - Farm 1 SW of corn done. 1 worker from that tile, that still has movement left joins the workers farming corn. Adopt religion this turn. Captured worker moves 1NE
Turn 11, 1340 - Farm on corn ready, given to SPB. Two workers start pasture on cows. Captured worker moves 2NE
Turn 12, 1345 - Two workers start farm on rice. Road on gold ready. Captured worker climbs the hill 1SW of Moscow.
Turn 13, 1350 - Moscow builds WB, starts another. Worker from gold also farms rice. Pasture on cows done. SPB works cows, Moscow works corn. Captured worker starts road on the hill 1SW of Moscow.
Turn 14, 1355 - Fish net done, Moscow works fish. Farm on rice built, start road on rice. Workers from cows sent to forests 2E & 2E 1N of Moscow for chopping.
Turn 15, 1360 - Both cities grow to size 2. Moscow works fish, clams. SPB works cows, corn.1 worker sent to the hill 1SW of Moscow to build road. Road on the hill ready, 1 worker sent to the forest 1SW of SPB (to build road towards our new city in the south).
Turn 16, 1365 - 2 workers mine gold. 1 worker sent to the forest 1NE of Moscow.
Turn 17, 1370 - Moscow grows to size 3, works fish, clams, corn; SPB works cows, rice.
Turn 18, 1375 - Gold mine done; SPB grows to size 3, WB done -> library.
Turn 19, 1380 - Moscow grows to size 4, builds WB -> settler. Chop 2 forests into settler.
Turn 9, 1330 - Borders of SPB expand. Two workers that finished chopping start farming corn. Moscow builds worker, starts WB. New worker moves onto the gold hill (we will need it very soon for happiness). DOW Gandhi and capture his worker.
Turn 10, 1335 - Farm 1 SW of corn done. 1 worker from that tile, that still has movement left joins the workers farming corn. Adopt religion this turn. Captured worker moves 1NE
Turn 11, 1340 - Farm on corn ready, given to SPB. Two workers start pasture on cows. Captured worker moves 2NE
Turn 12, 1345 - Two workers start farm on rice. Road on gold ready. Captured worker climbs the hill 1SW of Moscow.
Turn 13, 1350 - Moscow builds WB, starts another. Worker from gold also farms rice. Pasture on cows done. SPB works cows, Moscow works corn. Captured worker starts road on the hill 1SW of Moscow.
Turn 14, 1355 - Fish net done, Moscow works fish. Farm on rice built, start road on rice. Workers from cows sent to forests 2E & 2E 1N of Moscow for chopping.
Turn 15, 1360 - Both cities grow to size 2. Moscow works fish, clams. SPB works cows, corn.
Turn 16, 1365 - 2 workers mine gold. 1 worker sent to the forest 1NE of Moscow.
Turn 17, 1370 - Moscow grows to size 3, works fish, clams, corn; SPB works cows, rice.
Turn 18, 1375 - Gold mine done; SPB grows to size 3, WB done -> library.
Turn 19, 1380 - Moscow grows to size 4, builds WB -> settler. Chop 2 forests into settler.
Played untill turn 15. Now I think I am going to pass the save to the next player. We already have 2 cities and 6 six workers, so its not like an ancient start where the first player plays a longer session.
Bought map from Gandhi and then DOWed on him. Indian worker is delivered home and is doing usefull work already. Gandhi is willing to accept peace, and will even give us his world map and 10 gold. In the west there is some space on the continent for 1-2 cities with cows and crabs, and more islands. If we do everything right Gandhi should stay with two cities forever.
Some bad news: I didn't watch SPB carefully and we invested 2 engineer turns, which may cause us to get a GE instead of GS.
We should decide now whether we make peace with Gandhi and try to steal more workers, or keep our units fortified in his land. If we make peace, we should position units near Delhi's silk (so I would move the LB out of indian land manually, or else he'll get teleported to a wrong place) and Bombay's cows or ivory. We cannot cover all 3 spots with our 2 LBs. Maybe we need to build several warriors before connecting iron.
Bought map from Gandhi and then DOWed on him. Indian worker is delivered home and is doing usefull work already. Gandhi is willing to accept peace, and will even give us his world map and 10 gold. In the west there is some space on the continent for 1-2 cities with cows and crabs, and more islands. If we do everything right Gandhi should stay with two cities forever.
Some bad news: I didn't watch SPB carefully and we invested 2 engineer turns, which may cause us to get a GE instead of GS.
We should decide now whether we make peace with Gandhi and try to steal more workers, or keep our units fortified in his land. If we make peace, we should position units near Delhi's silk (so I would move the LB out of indian land manually, or else he'll get teleported to a wrong place) and Bombay's cows or ivory. We cannot cover all 3 spots with our 2 LBs. Maybe we need to build several warriors before connecting iron.
akots
Poet
Some long-due update when I get some time at new job.
Tested 3.19 BUFFY reaction to wood-running units - AI still does not cover its workers from them adequately during war. This is a call for not making peace, but going for a wood-running mace to steal workers.
Gandhi has invested some commerce in Esp vs us.
I think we should not improve Ivory, as Bombay will squeeze our culture from there in ~30-40 turns for ~30 turns until we hit 40% in Moscow.
Gandhi has Castes, so we should not fear him pop-rushing workers or lbows for some time.
Plan for the next 5 turns:
Turn 16, 1365 - 1 workers mine gold, another worker from gold hill is sent to the forest 1NE of Moscow; stolen worker chops forest 1 SW from Moscow; worker SW from StPete builds road to the south
Military: east l-bow stays on the hill, covering homeland. West lbow goes 1N to wooded hill. Explorer monitors Delhi each turn.
Turn 17, 1370 - Moscow grows to size 3, works fish, clams, corn; SPB works cows, rice; gold mine ready
Turn 18, 1375 - SPB grows to size 3, WB done -> library. Works cows and rice and gold for 1 turn. Worker from gold mine goes to 2nd gold hill (? discussible)
Turn 19, 1380 - Moscow grows to size 4, builds WB -> settler. Switch for 1 turn rice from StPete to Moscow, StPete works clams, cows and gold.
Turn 20, 1385 - Chop 3 forests into settler. Moscow - 2 fishes, clam, corn, StPete - clams, rice, cows.
Tested 3.19 BUFFY reaction to wood-running units - AI still does not cover its workers from them adequately during war. This is a call for not making peace, but going for a wood-running mace to steal workers.
Gandhi has invested some commerce in Esp vs us.
I think we should not improve Ivory, as Bombay will squeeze our culture from there in ~30-40 turns for ~30 turns until we hit 40% in Moscow.
Gandhi has Castes, so we should not fear him pop-rushing workers or lbows for some time.
Plan for the next 5 turns:
Turn 16, 1365 - 1 workers mine gold, another worker from gold hill is sent to the forest 1NE of Moscow; stolen worker chops forest 1 SW from Moscow; worker SW from StPete builds road to the south
Military: east l-bow stays on the hill, covering homeland. West lbow goes 1N to wooded hill. Explorer monitors Delhi each turn.
Turn 17, 1370 - Moscow grows to size 3, works fish, clams, corn; SPB works cows, rice; gold mine ready
Turn 18, 1375 - SPB grows to size 3, WB done -> library. Works cows and rice and gold for 1 turn. Worker from gold mine goes to 2nd gold hill (? discussible)
Turn 19, 1380 - Moscow grows to size 4, builds WB -> settler. Switch for 1 turn rice from StPete to Moscow, StPete works clams, cows and gold.
Turn 20, 1385 - Chop 3 forests into settler. Moscow - 2 fishes, clam, corn, StPete - clams, rice, cows.
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