SGOTM 10 - Wotan

[Wotan]

Agree with the need to discuss the next phase of the game. I am travelling for the next couple of days and forgot to transfer the save to my laptop so cannot continue playing until I am back on wednesday anyway.

A) Waiting for Cav is probably too long. We should make a landing in the next turnset I guess. The AI have a tendency to react pretty stupidly to aggressive action so a strong landing with Knights and a few settlers. Take a bridgehead and settle it. I would prefer it to be in the NE of their continent since it is probably close to their core and we want to disable teir productive capacity if possible. We do not want to keep Barb locations unless a really juicy GW in them. They have so high culture we will almost never keep capured cities for any extended period of time.

B) Might be an alternative. Send a small force of 10 Knights or so against one of their southern locations and allow some time for them to move forces south. OTOH they will surely move them north again when we land for real and can we afford to divert 10 Knights? Could they be put to better use in the north?

C) Maybe this will amost coincide with the time of attack, in 15 turns time or so?

D) Have limited experience with naval actions. The idea seems good though.

E) I am not sure you can even open the diploscreen when "targetting" a unit? Since it is unavaliable in F4 I would assume it to be unavailable "on map" too.

 

[Kulko]

A) Agree with you on the cavallery and on the site for the landing. So we go for gold in the next turnset. Lets collect 5 Settlers and about 30 Knights near erech and ship them over.

B) I was more thinking about using old warriors from MP or some cheap spears from captured unconnected Towns in our ICS. But you are right, the logistic hassle is probably not worth the effect, although you never know with the stupidity of the AI. IF we lleave some empty city down under he might just rush there.

C) does this include the time for actually building the ships? There is no upgrade path to Frigates directly.

D) Old SGOTM reports are a wonderful source of knowledge.

E) I meant in the turn before I attacked them(Byzanz), when we still were at peace with them. Would have brought us their maps of barbaria, which might include some warrior inland incursions of value.

BTW, after witnessing first hand the Byzantine effort in the Barbarian war, I am sure we choose the correct parth by destroying all AI. This guys send over a group of 2-3 Dromons, bombard one AI City and then swim back, just to return 10 turns later for more of the same.

 

[Killer_Klein]

Hey, all

The first chapter is posted in the spoiler, I hope to have the second one up tomorrow or the day after

 

[Killer_Klein]

A) In this case, I would defer to those that have more experience then me. But my two cents is that we attack full force with the knights we have. And we go have their core cities, we take those out they are crippled. But, and this may be my inexperience talking, I say we still research after rail to get Cav, incase it turns out be tougher then we thought it was.

B) I think we should avoid the diversionary attack. While it would draw their forces away, we will need all the help we can get against the core cities because of that Barb Guard/Cannon thing.

C) I say we don't wait for magnetism because we then have to wait to build and/or buy the Man O Wars. I think we send an empty caravel on ahead of the invasion fleet to look for trouble, and if it encounters trouble we just land in a different area.

D) I like the suggested use of the man-o-wars in the stacks of 4+. But when do we want to use them. Should we wait until we have railed most of our core cities so that when we trigger our GA, we can fill caravels like there is no tomorrow or do we go for it earlier?

 

[Killer_Klein]

Have you guys read the spoilers?

Klarius team got hit with propaganda!!

Glad we didn't get hit with that. After they trade to plant the spy with us, but I figure their special wonder gave them espionage, but I never throught about propaganda.

I wonder if anyone actually lost a city to the barbs because of that?? That would make things really interesting. I assume that is what people were complaining about in the main thread.

I love the twists and turns of these type of games. It adds to the fun factor big time.

 

[Wotan]

Yes I have at least browsed through them. I like ours the most. Can't wait for the next installment.

 

[Ansar]

Long tale, but very a very interesting read, nontheless.

 

[Kulko]

Nice story killer !

I have read the other spoilers too. Hats off to klarius, they had a lot of bad breaks like pyramids to the Barbs and the propaganda and still are only marginally worse than us.

 

[Wotan]

Will probably play tomorrow if no additional info is posted we need to address.

 

[Wotan]

Turn log

0 – 550AD Preflight
A bit of MMing to raise beaker/gold output. Founded New Exeter, New Cambridge.

1 – 560AD
Half a dozen Knights and a few Caravels and Settlers.

Breda
Knight -> Spear dies Spear 1hp
Knight -> Spear win Knight 3hp
Elite Knight -> Archer win Knight 5hp.
Elite Knight -> Spear (1hp) win Knight 5hp
Breda captured

IBT: Barb. MI land next to Breda.

2 – 570AD
Physics finished, start researching Magnetism (4 turns).
All tiles surrounding Middleburg now occupied by Caravels.
2 town founded.
Attacked a Dutch Galley on the east coast, lost one Caravel but sunk the Dutch ship.

2 Elite attacks, one on the Barb MI one on a Dutch Archer; no leader.

Delft
Elite Knight -> Archer win Knight 5hp.
Knight -> Spear win Knight 4hp
Elite Knight -> Archer win Knight 4hp.
Delft captured

IBT: Barbarians finish building Sun Tzu’s.

3 – 580AD
Maastricht
Knight -> Spear win Knight 2hp.
Elite Knight -> Spear retreat Spear 2hp.
Elite Knight -> Spear (2hp) win Knight 5hp.
Maastricht captured.

New Chanca
Knight -> Spear win Knight 1hp
Knight -> Spear win Knight 2hp
Knight -> Archer win Knight 2hp
New Chanca destroyed.

New Leicester founded on Barb island!

4 – 590AD
Middleburg shrunk to size 3. Netherlands accepts peace for Middleburg and Heraclea. I accept. And send Knights to land on the final Dutch island.

IBT: Barb.Knights land next to Bath.

5 – 600AD

New Teoihuaca
Knight -> Spear win Knight 3hp
Destroy New Teoihuaca.

Kill the two Barb.Knights wo any losses.

IBT: Barbs finish building Copernicus. Production in Oxford sabotaged.

6 – 610AD
Magnetism researched, Metallurgy started.

Man of War attack a Dutch Galley and win, our Golden age begin!!!!

Arnhem
Knight -> Spear win Knight 2hp
Knight -> Spear win Knight 1hp
Elite Knight -> Spear win Knight 3hp
Elite Knight -> Spear win Knight 4hp.
Elite Knight -> Spear win Knight 4hp. (Leader: Nelson!!!)
Arnhem conquered and Dutch are gone.

7 – 620AD
Moving loads of units in preparation of mainland landing.

IBT: Barb landing, 1 Pike 1 Archer

8 – 630AD
Kill the barbs, no losses. Sink a Barb.Galley but no captured ship (MoW).

IBT: Knight and 2 Warriors land near Bath.

9 – 640AD
Apache
Knight -> Pike Retreat Pike 2hp
Knight -> Pike win Knight 2 hp
Knight -> Pike Retreat Pike hp
Knight -> Pike Win Knight 4hp
Knight -> Pike win Knight 1hp
Knight -> Pike win Knight 2hp
Knight Reg. -> Archer dies Archer hp
Knight -> Archer (3hp) retreat Archer 2hp
Knight -> Archer (2hp) win Knight 3hp
Apache destroyed

Kill the Barbarian landing party and lose 1 Knight to a Warrior!

IBT: 2 Barb Knights attack our beachhead, we lose 2 Knights. Chichen Itza struck by propaganda.

10 – 650AD
Metallurgy researched -> MT started.

Attack Anazazi and raze it. Lost 1 Knight 6 attacked.
Lost 1 Knight when killing a MI.

After action report.
We have 4 Settlers in Dover 2 to be used as “assault settlers”, move ento enemy territory, settle and use to reach attack targets. Several more en route to embarkation port on our continent.

Dover 2 should rush a harbour next turn when it has 1 shield built, then switch to Barracks and rush it the following turn so it is ready to be used for Knight/Cavalry upgrades.

Do not keep any captured Barb locations unless they have valuable GWs.

12+ fully healed Knights in Dover 2 ready to move towards any chosen target before hitting return. I have fortified them so we can discuss next target instead of moving them myself. The same goes for a Settler to accompany the Knights and help them with cultural borders for easy retreat if wounded.

4 Man of Wars in the war zone ready to be put into an attack “stack”.

Tech: MT in 4 turns then we only have two more in MA before finally researching Rails. I have shipped a group of Workers to the Barbs continent to help with rails and the high numbers of slaves we will get from razing the cities will hopefully be enough to quickly railroad the continent. When our continent is railroaded I guess we only need to keep a handful Cavalry to control it.

Roster
Killer_Klein up
MacBaldrick on deck
Kulko
Ansar (auto skip)
Wotan just played

 

[Ansar]

just a quick comment: judging by the culture ranks(1,10,100,1000, etc.), I believe you are right on the barb cities.

nice job, Wotan.

 

[Killer_Klein]

Good turn set Wotan.


SWEET!!! I finally get to do some signifant warring. Me Bash good, me strong!!

I will grab the turn set tonight, as I am out the door to baseball.

 

[Wotan]

Yes, your turn set will certainly see some heavy fighting though I suggest a somewhat lowintensity level for the first few turns until you can start making major upgrades to Cavalry on turn 4. We generate almost all beakers needed from scientists and any new locations on our continent you put down just set the citrizen to scientist and the location to wealth. No need to even consider them producing anything else.

I have also started to produce workers and warriors where possible on the archipelago islands so we can put a unit on each tile to deny Barbs an opportunity to land on those islands. I guess that is the easiest way of keeping them safe.

Edit: Fill the army when it arrives in a turn or two. I have placed a few caravels in strategic locations so you can transfer and move it to land next turn. Maybe we should place a town on the easternmost tip of the barab continent? I have just landed a few Settlers there so it could be done next turn Saves a lot of MPs if we can move there instead of to Dover 2.

EDIT2: Domination limits might become an issue in a couple of turn sets time so maybe we should discuss city placements on the barb continent? Using settlers to extend the reach of Knights/Cavalry is the most important condition for choice of sites in my opinion. Moving a settler across and into barb territory and then settle next turn so as to allow units an extra road move tile when moving deeper into barb.territory.

 

[Killer_Klein]

Hey all,

I see a couple of different options for the attack on Barbaria.

1: We can either go North and then swing down and catch the core with an attack from the North and the re-enforcements that arrive in the mean time.

2: Or we can go straight forward and smash the core as fast as we can and worry about units coming at as from the North and South or ...

3: We can head south and destroy the cities there and hold the line there while we mop up the Northern reaches

I kinda of like option 1 because this way to can take out the North fringe areas, which will be easier to take because there is less mountains. (Looks like there will be a lot of mountains in the core.) This will also give us a chance to upgrade some of our Knights to Cav, which were going to need. And we will take Horses away from the Barbs, I don't that it's their only source, but you never know.

As my plans for other stuff. Get all the units on their way to Barbland there. I am authorized to rush build the Harbour in Dover 2 and a Barracks following that, to upgrade Knights there?

I will also continue to build Knights and send them to Hebrides for transport to Barbdom.

Will finish researching MilTrad, Banking and start ToG.

And newly built cities in the United States of Barbarians (NOTE: Not a slur at my Stanley Cup stealing neighbours, eh ) will produce workers and settlers for building road and settling key attacking areas.

Anything, I miss?

 

[MacBaldrick]

MacBaldrick back from Europe.

Good to see the game progressed well.

Will get up to speed over the weekend

regards

 

[Wotan]

I think your plan 1 is my favourite too. But I would keep a low intense war going until you have Cavalry. It is only four turns away.

Workers in Barb country: I doubt they are needed since we raze all cities (unless valueable GWs in them). SO plenty of Slaves to be gained from them. Settlers will be 20-30 turns away so might be a bit late for our game to really matter. Maybe just do as I have done with new cities on the old continent, specialist and wealth?

Sorry about the silence but yesterday was midsummer eve here in Sweden and that is by far the most important holiday/festivities all year so I was absolutely not at a computer all day. Trying to regain life at the moment...

 

[MacBaldrick]

Loking at the map there is too many black tiles. Suggest loading a few gallions with perhaps warriors (or other disposable units) who can be dropped on the coast (preferably hills & mountains) to reveal the lie of the land. If not immediately destroyed - good check on any barbs offensive units in cities - they can be re-loaded and repeat operation.

Second point is to destroy all the roads in the isthmus and either block with defensive units or park frigates / Man-o-Wars to bombard any Bards trying to cross. Damaged units generally withdraw to repair.

Third observation - there are a few goody huts on islands in the south. Might gain something usefull from them and if they just spawn barb units, use them to try and upgrade some units to elite status.

Fourth - The Barb Guard unit needs both iron & saltpeter. Can we idenfify their sources and cut them off from as many cities as possible ? Links to 1st commnet. I note with range 3 bombardment Guard units will be impossible to attack in one move, but must take a turn of hits then defensive hits before attacking the target tile (best left alone if not in a city ?) so our cavalry Stack(s) might need several high defence value units to take their hits without diluting our attack.

Fifth - perhaps some slaves or workers should be kept to hand as bait to draw out Barb attack units so they can be destroyed in the open.

I will have to think further on the wider strategy issues.

 

[Killer_Klein]

Hey all,

Mac, brings up some very good points. I like setting up Man-O-Wars to bombard targets coming in the isthmus, but defending that area, will cost us a lot because of the long range of the barb guard. They would just bombard us from a distance. The AI might not be smart enough to do this, but you never know, it all depends on the settings.

I am going to wait and hear everyone elses opinions ideas and suggestions and then come up with a plan either tomorrow afternoon or evening my time.

Later

 

[Ansar]

IMO, the AI only uses their bombarding on the defensive, or when you are one tile away from the artillery. The Man-O-Wars would get us a golden age (have we had one?) and that would help lots. looking at Wotan's pic, the Barbarian Cannon seems to have lots of HP, so try avoiding it. Another thing on the Man-O-War, if the Barbarians are sending boats, we can enslave them. Man-O-War has a 33% chance of enslaving, which, if you dont know what it means is, it basically becomes another Man-O-War.

 

[Wotan]

My hope is this game is over in 30 turns or so. The plan to scout with ships and landing parties might be a bit too slow in helping us for the cost of ships and Warriors (MPS now) needed. We have about the amount of Caravels needed to ship chain for the transfer of new Knights from our continent now to venture into this would require additional?

We have one stack of MoWs now (four). Building enough to help out at the istmus might just draw resources from what is actually important now, Knights/Cavalry. Anything built apart from these are probably wasted at the current stage of the game.

Goody Hut hunting is using resources for missions with no real value to us. Having barbs to elite farm against is not really worth anything now. We need to land every single unit on Barb mainland and go after Barbs there.

Lets focus on what will bring us to an end of this game ASAP. Not a lot of side shows. Every decision should only be considered valid if it helps us finishing the game faster. Rail is one such issue since the rail net will bring units into battle the very same turn they are produced when rails and ship chain is working smoothly. And rail is less than 20 turns away, thus it will be in place before the end of this game and could hopefully help shave a turn or two off the end date.

So: research to rail. Build Knights/Cavalry and basically nothing else for the duration of the game. Keep enough workers on old continent to quickly connect productive core with embarcation port and then put a rail net to help defend our entire cntenent. Then use mainly slaves from razed barb cities to railroad the barb contient for quick reinforcements.