scoutsout
Minstrel Boy
Do you think a hard burn towards Nationalism will allow us the best chance to trade for Medicine and Steam?
SGOTM 10 - Xteam
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Mistfit
Deity
yes I do...
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
I'm with the mistifier.scoutsout said:
Me too!!Sir Bugsy said:
Good luck Mistfit!!
scoutsout
Minstrel Boy
I just had an idea...for using an oft-overlooked unit: the Guerilla.
One of the things kicked around was the old resource disconnect/connect to build a bunch of horses for upgrading to cav...Consider this: A horse costs 30 shields, upgrading to a Cav costs what, 150g each? We can get the same upgrade with MDI/Longbows for that money, and get a unit that defends twice as well and offers a defensive freeshot.
I'm not saying I want a whole bunch of G's... but for that initial landing I think it will make sense to use guerillas... perhaps even in lieu of Cavalry. Passenger space is going to be at a premium in that first wave... and so we'll need the biggest punch possible. Right now I'm thinking 2 Galleons of Infantry, 2 of Guerilllas, and 1 of Infantry/Rifles (oh please let us have coal and rubber...)
@Bugs: Bede one shared one of DocT's insights as to why MDI make sense over Knights in certains situations. I don't recall it completely... but I think it's because they "fight harder" (don't retreat) when facing units that aren't redlined. You wouldn't happen to have been in the SG where DocT enlighted Bede on that point, were you?
One of the things kicked around was the old resource disconnect/connect to build a bunch of horses for upgrading to cav...Consider this: A horse costs 30 shields, upgrading to a Cav costs what, 150g each? We can get the same upgrade with MDI/Longbows for that money, and get a unit that defends twice as well and offers a defensive freeshot.
I'm not saying I want a whole bunch of G's... but for that initial landing I think it will make sense to use guerillas... perhaps even in lieu of Cavalry. Passenger space is going to be at a premium in that first wave... and so we'll need the biggest punch possible. Right now I'm thinking 2 Galleons of Infantry, 2 of Guerilllas, and 1 of Infantry/Rifles (oh please let us have coal and rubber...)
@Bugs: Bede one shared one of DocT's insights as to why MDI make sense over Knights in certains situations. I don't recall it completely... but I think it's because they "fight harder" (don't retreat) when facing units that aren't redlined. You wouldn't happen to have been in the SG where DocT enlighted Bede on that point, were you?
Mistfit
Deity
sorry guys no playing last night... 2 sick kids
I will play tonight for sure as I told my wife it is her night to be up with them..
I will play tonight for sure as I told my wife it is her night to be up with them..
Not a bad thought at all!! 
In the intial assault, the defensive free shot could mean the difference between life and death. I think it is a good idea.
And do you see us using this force to take Apache2 and some Ivory?
EDIT - Just reread my post and realized I'm being stupid again. Can't take this force until we have Replacable Parts...
Hope your children are doing better Mistfit...
In the intial assault, the defensive free shot could mean the difference between life and death. I think it is a good idea.
In your mix, shouldn't we send a Galleon with Cannons/Artillery as well?Scout said:
And do you see us using this force to take Apache2 and some Ivory?
EDIT - Just reread my post and realized I'm being stupid again. Can't take this force until we have Replacable Parts...
Hope your children are doing better Mistfit...
scoutsout
Minstrel Boy
And a combat settler. We'll need one of those too.leif erikson said:In your mix, shouldn't we send a Galleon with Cannons/Artillery as well?
DJMGator13
Still breathing
Thanks to Alberto my Wednesday seminar was moved to Friday so I'll be unavailable until Friday night.
Mistfit
Deity
Things go from bad to worse in the Mistfit household.. Now the wife is sick.
Not only that but directly after playing the rest of the turn my computer locks up and I lost the damn turn log... so you will only get a recap.
Barb Action:
Only one landing in my turn-set 1 pike-1 MDI - 1Cav all vet and all dead one dead cav for me.
I get bombarded everyturn all over the place.
Science:
Nationalism is due next turn
GA:
I could not find anyone to hit with our MoW but the Barbs obliged with my first one and attacked it and lost
We even Enslaved it!
Unfortunately in the same IT they killed both unit but our GA was started IT 2 turns ago... It is 950 right now so I'd mark it 930AD IIRC.
Other:
I did a decent job MM'ing but please look over everything as I have not slept in almost 3 days now...
Pre-build update
Nottingham has our prebuild in it -
The city is making 25 (or so spt) and this turn I could have built the Hero Epic fully
SAVE
If you have any specific questions on my turnset please feel free to ask and I will do my best to recall info for you.
Not only that but directly after playing the rest of the turn my computer locks up and I lost the damn turn log... so you will only get a recap.
Barb Action:
Only one landing in my turn-set 1 pike-1 MDI - 1Cav all vet and all dead one dead cav for me.
I get bombarded everyturn all over the place.
Science:
Nationalism is due next turn
GA:
I could not find anyone to hit with our MoW but the Barbs obliged with my first one and attacked it and lost
We even Enslaved it!Unfortunately in the same IT they killed both unit but our GA was started IT 2 turns ago... It is 950 right now so I'd mark it 930AD IIRC.
Other:
I did a decent job MM'ing but please look over everything as I have not slept in almost 3 days now...
Pre-build update
Nottingham has our prebuild in it -
The city is making 25 (or so spt) and this turn I could have built the Hero Epic fully
SAVE
If you have any specific questions on my turnset please feel free to ask and I will do my best to recall info for you.
Mistfit
Deity
Oh yeah... we are at peace with the Dutch now..
and I have been moving one treb thru the mayan lands per turn to get them to the main part of the continent
and I have been moving one treb thru the mayan lands per turn to get them to the main part of the continent
scoutsout
Minstrel Boy
@Mistfit: I hope your whole family gets well soon, and I hope you didn't catch what they've got...
Nice touch moving the Trebs through the Mayan lands one at a time. We could probably go back in about 3-4 more turns and take that city if we want it. I can't remember when I signed peace, but IIRC it was before the midpoint of my last set.
Where are we in the order-of-go here?
Nice touch moving the Trebs through the Mayan lands one at a time. We could probably go back in about 3-4 more turns and take that city if we want it. I can't remember when I signed peace, but IIRC it was before the midpoint of my last set.
Where are we in the order-of-go here?
@Gator - Must be hurricane season, again... 
How about a small proposal.
Once we get Nationalism, and Rifles, how about a little visit to the Ivory city with 3 Galleons loaded with a Combat Settler, 4 Cannons, 4 Rifles and 3 Cavs? Then all we need to be sure of is that we have enough Gold to rush, or short rush, a Harbor and a Library, perhaps a Rax.
Good luck Mistfit...
How about a small proposal.
Once we get Nationalism, and Rifles, how about a little visit to the Ivory city with 3 Galleons loaded with a Combat Settler, 4 Cannons, 4 Rifles and 3 Cavs? Then all we need to be sure of is that we have enough Gold to rush, or short rush, a Harbor and a Library, perhaps a Rax.
Good luck Mistfit...
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
This is very good. You guys are starting to think out of the box. We might need some innovations to crack the Barbs.
@ Scout - That has always been one of Doc's arguments. He likes the speed, but he hates retreats. I can't remember which SG it was. Doc has certainly given that lecture more than once though. BTW, that is one guy who practically has the civilopedia memorized. He certainly has forgotten more about civ than I have ever learned.
@ Scout - That has always been one of Doc's arguments. He likes the speed, but he hates retreats. I can't remember which SG it was. Doc has certainly given that lecture more than once though. BTW, that is one guy who practically has the civilopedia memorized. He certainly has forgotten more about civ than I have ever learned.
Mistfit
Deity
No we cannot kill off the Mayans quite yet I pulled a bit of GPT from them fairly recently I figured a little is better than nothing. I did not want to sign a RoP without asking and I wanted to get this set done with.
I'm off to bed
I'm off to bed
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
Let's get our MoW into fleets. Venturing out in single ships will only get them killed. The barbs fight in fleets, we need to fight in fleets. The bigger the better. I'd say a minimum of four healthy ships to a fleet. Keep our sailors alive, they cost a lot to train and equip.
Nice work Mistfit, especially given the circumstances!! 
Roster:
Capt - UP
Leif - On Deck
Gator
Bugs
Scout
Mistfit - Just played!!
EDIT - We wish you a good night's
Mistfit...
Roster:
Capt - UP
Leif - On Deck
Gator
Bugs
Scout
Mistfit - Just played!!
EDIT - We wish you a good night's
Mistfit...
scoutsout
Minstrel Boy
@Leif: I looked at a nice little hilltop west of Apache 2 as a place to land an expeditionary force to take Ivory...and then I remembered all the naval bombardment on my turns.... it sounds like it got worse on Mistfit's turns. I hate investing the shields in Frigate class ships that will be obsolescent by endgame....and it pains me to say it... but we really do need to own the seas here. And we need to own them before Combustion.
@Bugs: The MDI versus Knights is an easier argument, as Cavs and G's have similar shield costs (actually I think the Guerilla is 10s pricier). But if there is one thing I really, really hate... it's the conscript Rifleman. Those things are Cavalry killers. The typical pattern is for the Cav to go in and knock the first hit point off quickly...and then it will not retreat. In a similar vein, I would just as soon attack a 2 hp unit (whether conscript or 2/4 Vet) with a Guerrilla as a Cavalry. Hit with the Cavalry first and last. First, against healthy units (to weaken before retreating) and then hit the very last defender with a fast mover so it can retreat to the stack after razing the city.
...and another @Bugs: we need a "raze and replace" settlement pattern that will help us achieve a domination style victory without cultural expansions... can you help with that? If we go full-on commie, we're going to want to be prepared to have every single city beating plowshares into swords. Mobilization needs to be an option for us as we get into total war. I mean... let's really give these Barbarians what for. I want to smack 'em around like we did in Bede01...I mean let's get nasty. I want another "we-gotta-nuke the-internet-to-avoid-tripping-a-domination-win" type of slugfest. Whadday say?
@Bugs: The MDI versus Knights is an easier argument, as Cavs and G's have similar shield costs (actually I think the Guerilla is 10s pricier). But if there is one thing I really, really hate... it's the conscript Rifleman. Those things are Cavalry killers. The typical pattern is for the Cav to go in and knock the first hit point off quickly...and then it will not retreat. In a similar vein, I would just as soon attack a 2 hp unit (whether conscript or 2/4 Vet) with a Guerrilla as a Cavalry. Hit with the Cavalry first and last. First, against healthy units (to weaken before retreating) and then hit the very last defender with a fast mover so it can retreat to the stack after razing the city.
...and another @Bugs: we need a "raze and replace" settlement pattern that will help us achieve a domination style victory without cultural expansions... can you help with that? If we go full-on commie, we're going to want to be prepared to have every single city beating plowshares into swords. Mobilization needs to be an option for us as we get into total war. I mean... let's really give these Barbarians what for. I want to smack 'em around like we did in Bede01...I mean let's get nasty. I want another "we-gotta-nuke the-internet-to-avoid-tripping-a-domination-win" type of slugfest. Whadday say?
While I do agree that we need to work on owning the seas, or at least the parts that allow us to get to the Barb Nation lands, I am a little uneasy with the idea that we must wait to do anything else until we win that battle. If we're planning on building 30 some MoW's in the next 18 turns, then we must be capable of launching a limited operation to achieve important means. The capture of a place so close to their territory may, and I repeat may, focus some of their attention there instead of everywhere? And we can set up an ambush for them and have a place to heal units closer to their territory than to ours.
Guerilla's come with Replaceable Parts, no? Do we really wish to wait that long before we do something?
I understand you argument on Cavs. However, we are talking Combined Arms here and Cavs are useful, even in the IA, to pick off maurauding units and return to a safe place after doing so. They have speed, G's have free shot and Infantry have defensive staying power. Combined with Artillery, this is a great combo that gives agility and defensive capability.
Guerilla's come with Replaceable Parts, no? Do we really wish to wait that long before we do something?
I understand you argument on Cavs. However, we are talking Combined Arms here and Cavs are useful, even in the IA, to pick off maurauding units and return to a safe place after doing so. They have speed, G's have free shot and Infantry have defensive staying power. Combined with Artillery, this is a great combo that gives agility and defensive capability.
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
Can we win by domination or do we have to destroy the Barbs?
Scout - I think once we get to the other continent we will want to use classic CxxC AW settling tactics.
I think an ocean full of MoW and captured MoW (no unit support on those remember ) will help us in so many ways.
@ Leif - No we don't want to wait. We need to concentrate on controlling at least a portion of the sea first. I'd choose the sea between our shore and Apache 2. Once we are sure of at least one sea lane then we launch an amphibious assault on that ivory island. It will make a nice jumping off spot for a mainland invasion.
Scout - I think once we get to the other continent we will want to use classic CxxC AW settling tactics.
I think an ocean full of MoW and captured MoW (no unit support on those remember
) will help us in so many ways. @ Leif - No we don't want to wait. We need to concentrate on controlling at least a portion of the sea first. I'd choose the sea between our shore and Apache 2. Once we are sure of at least one sea lane then we launch an amphibious assault on that ivory island. It will make a nice jumping off spot for a mainland invasion.
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