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SGOTM 10 - Xteam

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession GOTM' started by AlanH, Jul 31, 2009.

  1. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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    Should we hold the map from Gandhi? Would it be useful when peace time comes? Or will he have traded for it with the other civs?
     
  2. Mad Professor

    Mad Professor Deity

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    Back.

    I agree with the patience idea... I'd be willing to take a little risk to get both circumnavigation and 2 workers.

    Selling the map around get us +4 with most people. And some cash :)
     
  3. ShannonCT

    ShannonCT Deity

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    You might be right. Maybe we should keep that trump card.
     
  4. Frederiksberg

    Frederiksberg Deity

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    Agree with waiting some turns for circumnavigation.

    Regarding the use of the chop I suggest that we build wealth in St. Pete for one turn (chopped hammers are stored) and then build a War Elephant for 3 turns using the stored chop. Workers can connect ivory next turn.
     
  5. Cactus Pete

    Cactus Pete Deity GOTM Staff

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    Okay, plan is to gift map (after circum) to everyone but G, including France I presume. SCT advised buying everyone's map first, but China and England are not selling or trading. They might be willing to sell after the gift, but I question the value.

    Really like Fred's idea of building wealth and then a WE in SP.

    "There are only 6 tiles left for circumnavigation. So if we buy G's map again on T29, we will probably complete the circuit. I think that since we've come this far, we should delay the war on Gandhi and take what looks like certain circumnavigation. Everyone seems in agreement on this. We might be able to steal 2-3 workers in 2 turns. Only if G moves next to improve third ivory. I'd think that unlikely, but will try to be prepared for it.Gandhi will have time to build an elephant most likely Concur. , but we'll have 3 LBs (better -- 2lb's and a WE) to take it on (upgrade the archer next turn). Since Bombay's borders will probably pop next turn, you should probably move the LBs east. Would argue that the wheat needs to be covered, so should move at least one onto the ivory now being roaded and then towards the wheat.

    Moscow can whip a settler next turn if it starts building it now. You can send one of Moscow's warriors out to fogbust next turn after the whip, when it wont be needed for MP happiness." Thought I would really need to build a WE there, but Fred has provided way to get the settler out immediately.

    Thinking I should delay converting and then revolting until the WE is completed.

    Will have time to play in about 3hrs. Any objections to that?
     
  6. ShannonCT

    ShannonCT Deity

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    Play on.
     
  7. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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  8. Cactus Pete

    Cactus Pete Deity GOTM Staff

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    Playing now.
     
  9. Cactus Pete

    Cactus Pete Deity GOTM Staff

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    T27: Initiate new plan; notice that G has just built a workboat in Delhi

    IBT: GA created in Bombay (What if he culture bombs us?); clams netted and Indian galley shows up 3 tile WSW of Delphi (7 turns from our nets); Bombay expands just as SCT predicted; one of G's workers completes road on 2nd ivory, but other two disappear

    T28: Discover G's two workers and an explorer on the roaded wheat. Had anticipated this eventuality and send both lb's and a warrior in that direction via G's road; note that Mao has "enough on his hands," so perhaps we can enlist an ally

    IBT: Everyone we know except G adopts Pacifism; 2nd explorer shows up 3W of wheat (so area SW of Delhi was being fogbusted for us); G's 2 workers start building fort on wheat (Why would they do that?)

    T29: Buy map from G and discover that his caravel has headed NE
    settler>archer in Moscow, settler sent S for Horse City;
    move units next to wheat to capture workers next turn

    IBT: We have circumnavigated the globe! G's two workers continue to build fort on wheat, now without explorer escort

    T30: workboat finds that barbs have already settled the eastern island;
    GA no longer in Bombay and no culture bomb;
    settle Horse City (HC) and begin expanding borders;
    trade maps with G and pleased to find that caravel is sailing north of France and can't reach Delhi for about ten turns, even if it immediately turns and heads in that direction;
    contact French explorer, open borders, buy map, but learn nothing;
    declare war, capture workers, prepare for possible counterattack (Mao will not consider aligning with us.)

    IBT: Catapult attacks our lb on wheat and is killed, leaving lb at strength of 2.8; WE's complete in SP and Moscow

    T31: Begin settler in SP; deploy to pillage and defend

    IBT: Roosevelt completes Notre Dame

    T32: Find 2lb's, a galley, and a WE in Delhi;

    IBT: GE born in Beijing; G's WE does not attack our lb on forest but remains in city;

    T33; Pillage ivory camp

    IBT: GE born in France; Mao completes U. of Sankore;

    T34: Pillage roads; blockade Delhi harbor with caravel to both prevent use of clams and to keep galley and city units in view (What do you think danger is of G building additional boat and killing ours?); delay anarchy to get settler out next turn

    IBT: France completes Spiral Minaret;

    Had visitors, so didn't get to play as much as expected.

    NOTES:

    Have not converted or revolted to avoid turns of anarchy, but now may be the time, though would be more comfortable after getting out a knight or HA.

    Bombay has not built a single new unit, so I'm guessing it's producing a settler or a wonder. Opinions?

    Have not gifted maps or resources nor engaged in any other diplomacy. Particularly welcome suggestions along those lines as well as build orders.

    Also, danger of barbs on ice island has caused me to start a galley in HC in order to get a unit on the island. Think we ought to at least consider making that our fourth city.

    Fear that G's WE will attack next turn, and a lb will move onto forest to protect him. Did not play this well. If WE does not attack, think we should attack him, even at less than 50%, to give a future knight almost total freedom of movement. Note that WE has a promotion. (Don't see how Delhi has produced a barracks along with everything else.)

    Will await feedback before continuing.
     
  10. Mad Professor

    Mad Professor Deity

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    Man, what are his people eating if he has so many specialists on? Didn't he have a GE as well a while back and that's what got him the Sistine Chapel?

    The AI will build forts on resources not in the fat cross of a city to get the resource hooked up. The wheat is not in Delhi's fat cross and the AI does not yet have a city south of Delhi, and doesn't think far enough ahead to realise that it might what a farm on that wheat later.

    Good, good.

    Settled? Maybe WB'ed in by our worthy map designer...

    I think you've done well CP. Circumnavigation and Gandhi's workers captured? Seems we managed to have our cake and eat it too on that one...
     
  11. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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    Sounds like our patience paid off. :goodjob:

    Circumnavigation and some new, fast workers, :D well, formerly fast... :mischief:

    Horse city settled. :thumbsup:
    War with Ghandi and his Ivory pillaged. :)

    Can you post either a screenie or two or the save? Would like to get a feel for the situation. G's WE sounds a bit menacing...

    Hope you enjoyed your visitors. :cheers:
     
  12. ShannonCT

    ShannonCT Deity

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    Good work CP! Let's see the save.

    I guess Gandhi's GA was settled in Bombay? You probably would have seen it if it had moved to Delhi?

    Mao having enough on his hands probably means he's going to war with someone on his continent.

    If Delhi builds another ship, you will have one turn warning before it can move. You'll probably have to back off if that happens.

    You're probably right that Bombay is/was building a settler since Delhi seems to have built a lot of other stuff.

    Agree on your plan to fogbust ice island. If we can fogbust it, we could delay its settling until after we have locked Gandhi out of the 2 sites in the southwest and one in the north.

    Hard to make recommendations on the war without seeing unit locations.
     
  13. Cactus Pete

    Cactus Pete Deity GOTM Staff

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  14. Cactus Pete

    Cactus Pete Deity GOTM Staff

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    So far, so good. Testing was critical. Never would have been ready to capture workers on wheat otherwise, as would not have thought G would give that any priority.
     
  15. Mad Professor

    Mad Professor Deity

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    A fort acts just like a farm on a wheat tile as far as hooking up the resource goes. So if you have a fort on a resource and that fort linked by road or river, you have the resource. If it's not in the fat cross of a city, a farm will give you no extra bonus, whereas the fort increases the tile defense, so a fort is better if the tile is never going to be in the fat cross of a city. So the AI will usually build a fort on a resource outside the fat cross of a city to hook up the resource. (The AI does not think ahead to a possible future where that resource will be in the fat cross of a yet to be settled city!) A fort also is a place you can base aircraft and nukes which is quite significant with the limit on the number of aircraft in a city, and the short range of tactical nukes. I've been playing some modern starts to get a short cut way of seeing how the AI uses nukes, and I've noticed that the AI will line up a row of forts on a border. Declare war on them, and those forts will be full of tactical nukes following turn ready to turn your area into a nuclear wasteland. Or they'll try anyway...

    Oh - on that topic - we just HAVE to tech very fast to nukes because we HAVE to be there a long time before the AI can build the SDI. It will cost us tens of thousands of hammers in lost nukes if we don't... It will make saving a few hammers here and there totally insignificant.
     
  16. Cactus Pete

    Cactus Pete Deity GOTM Staff

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    Thanks for the explanation, MP.

    Can see how that might be a problem.
     
  17. Mad Professor

    Mad Professor Deity

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    I'm not seeing where it says he'll only go after Gandhi. It says Gandhi is Mau's "worst enemy" but that doesn't mean he's preparing to attack him. Often the AI will have a worst enemy on another continent that he's met but can't reach with an army, and will be happily preparing to go to war against someone else. Mau doesn't like Churchill or Roosevelt very much either. I'd place bets on one of these two being in Mau's sights.
     
  18. Mad Professor

    Mad Professor Deity

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    I see the grassland hill two west of Moscow and the forest grassland south of it are in danger of being lost to Gandhi's territory. Also , the elephants in the fat cross of St. P and the forest grassland to the SE of it need to be watched for this problem also.

    This inability to take cities before nuking them may hurt us if Bombay's culture continues to grow more swiftly than that of St. P and Moscow.
     
  19. ShannonCT

    ShannonCT Deity

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    I don't think Gandhi will attack with the war elephant AND protect it with a LB from Delhi. That would leave one LB in Delhi. The AI doesn't usually do that when a city is threatened. If G's elephant is within range of both of ours next turn, I think it's ok to attack it. If it beelines for St. Pete, you can upgrade a warrior to a pike.

    Mao's worst enemy is Gandhi but there are other AI he doesn't like. I'd be surprised to see him launch an intercontinental invasion so soon. Besides, he has no cities on the ocean.

    Ice island could have barb LBs or maces. Suggest you use LB 1 as a fogbuster on the southern silver where it will get a 75% defensive bonus after fortifying for 5 turns. The new settler can move unescorted south of Bombay.

    For other fogbusting, our explorer should move west to one of the plains hills. He's completely redundant where he is now. Warrior 3 should move SSW to the ice hill. The western stolen worker (rename stolen workers to worker B and worker C) might need to stay on that hill until the settler arrives or until the wounded LB takes its place. With all of this done, we should have all the cities we want on this continent.

    I think you can sell our map to everyone but Gandhi now. Also watch for the chance to trade our crab for wine or dyes.

    The culture from Bombay could be a problem soon. The forests WSW of Moscow is already 45% Indian. Shall we chop it now? I guess the library and National Epic in St. Pete should put out enough culture to keep the forest to its SSW, but we might want to chop that one anyway since it has the greatest chance of regrowing.

    I notice we still haven't gotten free Christianity spread in Moscow. Shall we continue waiting or actively do something? Do we need a monastery in St. Pete or to adopt OR?
     
  20. Frederiksberg

    Frederiksberg Deity

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    When the GE is born in Moscow no later than 12 turns from now it doesn't really matter much if it takes 50 turns more to get Christianity there because all our GP's will be coming out of St. Pete anyway. For this reason I think a Monastery will come too late. Adopting OR will provide some extra hammers in St. Pete for the Library but no more than we need to spend on a missionary. The extra turn of anarchy from adopting OR before Pacifism should then be weighted against saving 3 turns on the first GE and 3 turns on the Library but no turns on the NE (maybe even loosing a turn). I think this means that adopting OR is slightly unfavorable compared to just waiting for the GE to pop. We can't go to Pacifism before we either have Christianity in Moscow or the GE has popped.
     

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