SGOTM 10 - Xteam

[Frederiksberg]

Are you comparing its value to one or both of the cities being considered south of Bombay or to, say, getting the cities north of SP or on the ice island up and running quickly. Also if we continue the war to get it settled, we may need a boat(s) to keep G's ships off our nets.

I think it has more immediate value than the proposed sites south of Bombay. I think we are better off leaving those to Gandhi for later capture when they have increased value.

If we settle the iron/cow tile next we could probably make peace and still beat Gandhi to the fish site north of St. Pete and the Ice island. Without access to the iron/cow site I bet that Gandhi will settle a city near the southern wheat. That should give us enough time to settle our remaining planned cities. I don't see any problem in leaving Gandhi the opportunity to settle 1-2 cities to the south for us to capture when the tech progress makes them more valuable and even more important when we can also capture Delhi and Bombay and get rid of the annoying cultural pressure.

 

[Cactus Pete]

I think it has more immediate value than the proposed sites south of Bombay. I think we are better off leaving those to Gandhi for later capture when they have increased value.

If we settle the iron/cow tile next we could probably make peace and still beat Gandhi to the fish site north of St. Pete and the Ice island. Without access to the iron/cow site I bet that Gandhi will settle a city near the southern wheat. That should give us enough time to settle our remaining planned cities. I don't see any problem in leaving Gandhi the opportunity to settle 1-2 cities to the south for us to capture when the tech progress makes them more valuable and even more important when we can also capture Delhi and Bombay and get rid of the annoying cultural pressure.

Sounds reasonable. I was planning to start roading to the site NW of SP anyway, following SCT's thinking that we might get into a race with G to get there at some point. Be interested to hear other's thoughts.

 

[leif erikson]

I think I'm with Fred on this one. Why settle marginal cities to the south if we can grab one with some production that also keeps a crimp in G's style?

Of course, the southern site with the wheat isn't a poor site for G, but it'll be when we finally get to grab it.

I haven't played out to nukes. How long does it take to make a city worthwhile again after you nuke it? Are we going to have to be able to scrub nuke fallout?

 

[Cactus Pete]

Planning to resume play through at least the next settler pop in 9 hours unless read otherwise here.

 

[Mad Professor]

I haven't played out to nukes. How long does it take to make a city worthwhile again after you nuke it? Are we going to have to be able to scrub nuke fallout?

Scrubbing fallout can be done by workers if you have Ecology. That would require some serious beakers. It's an issue for us to discuss sometime on the way to nuclear war, for sure. A fallout tile is worth a big fat zero - you can't develop anything on it, and there are no hammers, no food and no commerce from a fallout tile. It is a desert, except worse because you can't even build a fort on it. Fallout will eventually go away by itself, but it takes quite a long time. I have not timed it carefully to be able to say for sure, but it does eventually go away. Meanwhile though, a city with three to four fallout tiles around it (about the average after a nuclear strike) is worth a good deal less to us.

 

[leif erikson]

Planning to resume play through at least the next settler pop in 9 hours unless read otherwise here.

Good Luck!

 

[Cactus Pete]

Playing now. Will be checking here.

 

[Cactus Pete]

IBT: Out of anarchy;
GS born in France; another lb built in Delhi, and one of them exits city to NE;
Indian caravel does not follow ours, nor does it head for SP's harbor;
catapult built in Bombay;
forest SW of SP now only 69% Russian

T41: Found Orange City (OC) and chop workboat there;
occupy Delhi's cows with both lb and WE;
carefully search for G's caravel unsuccessfully

IBT: GE born in America;
cat stays in bombay and lb retreats into Delhi

T42: Pillage cow pasture and road;
workboat completes in OC and put overflow into worker;
search Delhi's harbor unsuccessfully for his caravel, which seems to have headed W or NW
switch galley to knight in HC to keep overflow from chops from going into gold;
gift Churchill crabs to eventually improve relations

IBT: Roosevelt completes Schwedagon Paya;
knight completes in HC>galley;
lb missing from bombay, still four in Delhi

T43: Switch from wkr to culture in OC;

IBT: GE born in China;
galley completes in HC and put overflow into worker;
5lb's now in Delhi;
SP's forest is still 69% Russian;
G's caravel shows up 7 tiles NW of Delhi

T44: SP to pop 10, switch to settler;
game again puts scientist to work in SP that I have to move to landscape;
trade gold for wine with Churchill
Load lb on wkbt to fogbust ice island

IBT: G's caravel sails east

T45: Move knight into central location;
relieved to find no barbs near our future icy city site;
trade crabs for dyes with Roosevelt

IBT: G's caravel heads toward our nets in SP's harbor;
library completes in Moscow and switch tentatively to galley (both as a way to protect nets and to get settler to possible site N of Delhi and perhaps later settlers to island sites);
worker completes in HC with the chop and switch tentatively to another worker, planning to use the whip for him

T46: Load lb back into galley to move to icy hill 4 tiles east for fogbusting of island;
whip settler in SP;
found Novgorod (N) on blue city site and build culture;
OC expands, crabs netted, and worker tentatively switched to caravel for future exploration to the west;
find G has produced a worker in Delhi;


Notes:

There is a forest that can be chopped this turn for OC.
I have not bought or traded maps for a long time -- might be something to learn.
Suggest moving the explorer, presently pausing in N, toward Delhi, planning to use his two movements to check on the city each turn (eventually he could be put into a caravel for exploration).
Like to get the plains W of Moscow farmed.
There is no transportation available to move the settler (along, presumably, with a worker) coming in SP next turn to the site N of Delhi, even if we decide that we can indeed hold off G's culture and make it viable.
My choice would be to send him NW and take advantage of the workers already in place to develop that site rapidly. We would seem to be in pretty good shape to defend for a while longer -- at any rate, I'm passing the buck to leif.


SAVE (This same save has been downloaded to central, but this is not copied from there, but directly from the game -- if that makes any difference.)
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=226478&stc=1&d=1251737115

 

[Cactus Pete]

The graph for my turn set at central has an unflattering slope, though it certainly is relatively flat. Other teams must have expanded and grown more rapidly. Think they did not go to war or perhaps just didn't build units?

 

[leif erikson]

The graph for my turn set at central has an unflattering slope, though it certainly is relatively flat. Other teams must have expanded and grown more rapidly. Think they did not go to war or perhaps just didn't build units?

That's the score graph. If you haven't looked at the others, Murky is up to something looking at their culture graph. Looks like they either built a Wonder or are have hired a bunch or Artists? They doubled their culture in about 10 turns. Our power graph is its usual, robust self!

Nice going CP!

Roster:
leif - UP
Frederiksburg - On Deck
Mad Professor
Grover22
ShannonCT
Cactus Pete - Just Played!

PaulisKhan - Computer on order and awaiting internet!
rrau - Prayers that things are working out.

I'll have a long look this evening and hopefully get a plan together.
I'll be listening for suggestions...

 

[Frederiksberg]

I don't think we should worry about minor differences in score at this point in the game. It seems to me that we are doing fine. A bit annoying that Christianity is not spreading .

I'm tempted to send the settler to the city site north of Delhi because it means that we can end the war and stop worrying about having our fishing nets pillaged or blocked. He can walk there in 5 turns through Indian territory.

Other suggestions:

1. When the GE is born in Moscow switch to pacifism. Watch out for the city governor hiring scientists in St. Pete!
2. Try in general to build windmills and watermills rather than mines and farms. Windmills are about equal in value to mines and will in time be considerably stronger.
3. Build a work boat in Moscow for our next city. We can't chop it.
4. Don't build a worker in HC before it reaches pop 4. We want to whip for two pop.

 

[Cactus Pete]

I don't think we should worry about minor differences in score at this point in the game. It seems to me that we are doing fine. A bit annoying that Christianity is not spreading .

I'm tempted to send the settler to the city site north of Delhi because it means that we can end the war and stop worrying about having our fishing nets pillaged or blocked. He can walk there in 5 turns through Indian territory. Hadn't considered that possibility. Probably want a worker and possibly a longbow to join him.

Other suggestions:

1. When the GE is born in Moscow switch to pacifism. Watch out for the city governor hiring scientists in St. Pete! Do we know which city will produce the GE if both get there on the same turn?
2. Try in general to build windmills and watermills rather than mines and farms. Think we'll run out of worker tasks after forest preserves and will be able to do a good deal of switching improvements, particularly for farms which will speed city growth in the near term. Windmills are about equal in value to mines and will in time be considerably stronger.
3. Build a work boat in Moscow for our next city. We can't chop it.
4. Don't build a worker in HC before it reaches pop 4. We want to whip for two pop.

What's the interim build there, then.

 

[leif erikson]

In testing, if both cities would produce the Great Engineer on the same turn, the Capitol always won out. Did anyone have something different happen?

 

[Cactus Pete]

Might be worth the risk to run scientist(s) in Moscow to assure its primacy and get us to Pacifism.

 

[Frederiksberg]

What's the interim build there, then.

We could always use more work boats. We could also gift the iron to someone and build some more warriors. And then there is the default of building wealth.

Hadn't considered that possibility. Probably want a worker and possibly a longbow to join him.

We could use the Knight to provide cover during the travel up there and then we should have time to replace with a longbow.

Do we know which city will produce the GE if both get there on the same turn?

BUFFY seems to know and she has been right in the few tests I have played.

Think we'll run out of worker tasks after forest preserves and will be able to do a good deal of switching improvements, particularly for farms which will speed city growth in the near term.

Keep in mind that we also need workers to build some workshops on our grassland tiles once we have Chemistry and Caste adopted.

 

[Mad Professor]

Playing now. Will be checking here.

REsults look OK to me CP. I've just managed to et back online after 24 hours of interruption to the connection. You find out how addicted you are to the internet when that happens. Just a few months ago I was surviving on one connection for half an hour a week...

Anyhow - I've downloaded the save and will have look...

 

[leif erikson]

I think that Fred has the right idea and we should move the Settler from St. Pete's to the tile between the Iron and Cow north of Delhi across India's territory covered by the Knight.

Been having a look at the save and have a few questions.

How many cities do we want to build. At this point, here i smy list:

1. North of Delhi between the Iron and Cow tiles.

If we make peace with G, then:
2. Northwest of St. Pete on the Grass Hill tile2-tiles north of the Crab.

3. The Ice Island SE of the Iron

4. The Tundra tile 2-west of the northern Fur, south of Bombay.
I was thinking that we may need this city to maintain open routes to our two western cities? Although, we could do without this city?

As soon as GE pops in Moscow, we can change to Pacifism. Do wait on the change to Caste so we can continue to pop Settlers and Workers?

We can build National Epic in ST. Pete while the pop grows back, depending upon whether we change to Caste or not.

 

[Cactus Pete]

We could always use more work boats. We could also gift the iron to someone and build some more warriors. And then there is the default of building wealth. Probably ought to wait until we are at peace to gift iron, but that's something to consider later.

We could use the Knight to provide cover during the travel up there and then we should have time to replace with a longbow. Let's play this as it goes. Be nice, but hardly critical, to capture G's new worker (he was mighty careless with the last one), and the knight would have the best chance of doing that.

Keep in mind that we also need workers to build some workshops on our grassland tiles once we have Chemistry and Caste adopted.

What am I missing? Why is Chemistry relevant here?

 

[leif erikson]

What am I missing? Why is Chemistry relevant here?

+1 hammer for a workshop.

Gifting Iron would mean no more Knights as well.

 

[Cactus Pete]

I think that Fred has the right idea and we should move the Settler from St. Pete's to the tile between the Iron and Cow north of Delhi across India's territory covered by the Knight. I recall that SCT was against this and be nice to have his input, but he seems to be MIA -- perhaps he's dancing with the pig virus.

Been having a look at the save and have a few questions.

How many cities do we want to build. At this point, here i smy list:

1. North of Delhi between the Iron and Cow tiles.

If we make peace with G, then: Why do we have to have peace to settle these?
2. Northwest of St. Pete on the Grass Hill tile2-tiles north of the Crab.

3. The Ice Island SE of the Iron

4. The Tundra tile 2-west of the northern Fur, south of Bombay.
I was thinking that we may need this city to maintain open routes to our two western cities? Although, we could do without this city? Didn't think we'd concluded that two cities south of Bombay was out, and wouldn't even one of them be better done while still at war?

As soon as GE pops in Moscow, we can change to Pacifism. Do wait on the change to Caste so we can continue to pop Settlers and Workers? There's a big plus to Slavery while we are popping settlers, and we may actually want to explore the possibility of settling other islands.

We can build National Epic in ST. Pete while the pop grows back, depending upon whether we change to Caste or not.

We can run two scientists here now without Caste.