SGOTM 11 - ChokoMisfits

Plans for my turnset:

I'm planning to just get us to the GS.
Plan is to get Library asap, and run two scientists for a GS. If my calculations are correct, I won't be able to whip for another 3 turns. Even with two forest chops.
135 hammers for the library = 3 turns at 5 hammers + 30h * 2 forests + 30h * 2 pop.
At that time I can have another forest ready to chop, saving us 1 for the whip.
I'd like comments on that, do we want a two pop whip, or a one pop whip, costing us another forest, but lets us grow faster when building the GS.
I would go for the one pop whip, so we get the Granary completed faster. And get more income, as we will be able to work the silver or cottage faster.
After Granary completes I'd build warriors until the cap is reached, and then start another worker.

Another approach is to sacrifice growth, and work two forested plains one turn, and one for another turn, this lets us whip in two turns with two chops. Comments please.

In WheatCowIncense, I'll whip the Monument as soon as it grows, and then switch to Granary, as this city will also end up using the whip a lot.

I'll get open borders with Zara, and send a warrior over to check his lands out.

Workers will split up, and start prechopping. Unless someone has a good idea for the fresh water plains at WheatCowIncense.

I'll ignore research in this turnset, and keep the slider on 0%

I'll promote Sunil Gravaskar to Combat1, unless someone don't agree, and try to keep as many of the warriors alive.

I'll rename the new warriors, but not with Indian cricketeers, as I don't know any.
I'll try to keep the warriors alive

Anything I've forgotten, or need to remember? And is my math all wrong?
 
McArine,

One change for your library plan: the whip will produce 45 H per pop, rather than 30, as we are on Epic speed. This is 30 more hammers for a 2 pop whip, or one entire forest (pre-Math).

I think we will need a 2-pop whip to get the hammers for the library quickly, even though that means more time regrowing before we can work 2 scientists and our best tiles.

I am unsure about building more warriors. We are already at/near our free unit cap, and we do not want to pay maintenance. We have more than the 4 we will eventually need, and can always build more later if required (up until Gunpowder, at the latest). I would like to finish the capital's granary, and maybe put some hammers into a barracks, rather than build more warriors.

The rest of the plan looks good to me.

One additional item: when will the capital get another border pop? T77? (Really end of T76, but effectively T77?) This should extend our culture to the copper tile. What are our plans to get it hooked up? A couple axes would be good to have in case tougher barbs start appearing. And it will be a strong tile to start off city #3 near the stone, once we get a settler for it.
 
I agree with a 2 pop whip for the library. Most of our forests should be chopped for the Mids although using 1 chop for the lib would speed that build up.

I don't mind more warriors as we can use them for fogbusting and they are cheap. Remember a barb cannot spawn within a 2 tile radius so we should be able to fogbust most of the land quite cheaply.

Once we have the lib/acad in Delhi it will have to go back to building workers/settlers. One of the reasons I'm keen on AH as Wheat City with a cow tile could take part of that over.

Looking ahead.

I assume we are still going to try for the Oracle? In which case we need poly/med (prefer poly)/priest. Then we have to decide is it worth the risk of going for CoL/CS sling (assuming it hasn't been built) or take that from the Oracle.
 
I'm not sure whether the following plan is reasonable:

Complete Granary while growing to Pop 6; Whip 3 Pop to complete the Library in 2t.

How many turns would that take before we have a Library and 2 Scientists?

We should compare this to the alternatives and pick the one that gets the GS as early as reasonably possible.

Although I originally suggested building 1-2 Warriors, it may be better to save our remaining free units for 2 more Workers after this turn set.

The Oracle:

We could go after The Oracle, but that would be easier after Masonry and connecting Marble. The Pyramids should be our primary Great Wonder target though.

Sun Tzu Wu
 
Marble?

I can't see us settling the marble site before city 5 so would probably be a bit late for the Oracle. Certainly good for the GLib though.

City 4 has to be our GP farm. That city will be able to produce quick workers/settlers whilst our capital and wheat city concentrate a bit on wonders.

At work atm so unable to go to deep into the figures and I'm out tonight and certainly won't be fit for looking at the save then. :)
 
Sorry for going awol there, I had a couple of suddenly very hectic days. Thankfully they're done now.
I'm not sure what I should go for. I don't feel we've agreed on the plan to go for.
Should I redo the numbers, to take into account that it's 45 hammers per whip. And should I do the numbers for Sun Tzu Wu's suggestion.

Or should I just go ahead with the plan?
 
McArine said:
I'm not sure what I should go for. I don't feel we've agreed on the plan to go for.
Should I redo the numbers, to take into account that it's 45 hammers per whip. And should I do the numbers for Sun Tzu Wu's suggestion.

Or should I just go ahead with the plan?
Click to expand...

I think it is worth the time to redo the numbers with 45 hammers per pop whipped, and also to check Sun Tzu Wu's suggestion of a 3-pop whip. I suspect a 2-pop whip with a chop will turn out to be fastest overall, but running the numbers for the various options to be sure would be a good thing.
 
McArine said:
Sorry for going awol there, I had a couple of suddenly very hectic days. Thankfully they're done now.
I'm not sure what I should go for. I don't feel we've agreed on the plan to go for.
Should I redo the numbers, to take into account that it's 45 hammers per whip. And should I do the numbers for Sun Tzu Wu's suggestion.

Or should I just go ahead with the plan?
Click to expand...

We should try weighting the alternatives, before committing to one.

Personally, I think we have rushed the early Game too much. The early Game sets the course for what follows. The early Game is what gains the most from micro-management. If we neglect the early Game too much, there will be no Laurels for us. To get the Laurels, one generally has to work hard and intelligently with all aspects of the Game. To neglect one, can spell disaster.

Sorry, McArine. It just happens that we have a few alternative tactical paths we could follow in your turn set. The most important one is how to generate a Great Scientist the fastest. A secondary one is how to complete the Monument being built in WheatCowIncense, solely via Slavery or via a Forest Chop plus normal Hammers.

The two main alternatives to generating a Great Scientist can be evaluated by either:
1) Calculate each turn by hand, which can be error prone, but usually provides the correct answers to within a 1-2 turns.
2) World Editor on the test Game and run a test Game for each alternative.

I don't care which method or who does, but it should be done.

Honestly, I would be willing to do these calculations, but I'm in the middle of competing in two (a Major and a Minor) HOF Gauntlets which are comsuning most of my Civ4 Game time at the moment.

Sun Tzu Wu
 
haphazard1 said:
I think it is worth the time to redo the numbers with 45 hammers per pop whipped, and also to check Sun Tzu Wu's suggestion of a 3-pop whip. I suspect a 2-pop whip with a chop will turn out to be fastest overall, but running the numbers for the various options to be sure would be a good thing.
Click to expand...

However we whip the Library, please work the Cottage -> Hamlet as much as possible:

The nice part about growing to Pop 6 and whipping 3 Pop is the Cottage can always be worked (it is now only 7-8 turns from becoming a Hamlet). When forced to work either the Cottage or the Silver Mine, I'd prefer the Cottage for two reasons:

1) We keep the Cottage on track to become a Town (eventually).
2) Growth rate is +2 Fpt more with the Cottage versus the Silver Mine and it only costs us -4 Commerce per turn (When the Cottage becomes a Hamlet that difference will drop -3 Commerce per turn).

After whipping the Library, we will want to hire 1 Scientist for 1t and thereafter hire two Scientists as haphazard1 previously pointed out is still optimal versus hiring two Scientists immediately.

After whipping the Library, at Population 3 we will be working 1 Scientist for 1t or more as required:

1) Still growing fast (+8 Fpt): 2 Corn Farms, 1 Scientist

At Population 4 we will be working 2 Scientists until Pop 5 or the GS pops:

1) Still growing fast (+6 Fpt): 2 Corn Farms, 2 Scientists

At Population 5 we will be working 1st Cottage/Hamlet and 2 Scientists until Pop 6 or the GS pops:

1) Still growing fast (+6 Fpt): 2 Corn Farms, 1 Cottage/Hamlet, 2 Scientists

After the first Cottage is covered, we need to prioritize the second Cottage, so at Population 6 until the GS pops we will be working either:

1) Still growing fast (+6 Fpt): 2 Corn Farms, 1 Cottage/Hamlet, 1 Cottage, 2 Scientists
2) No growth: 1 Corn Farm, 1 Cottage/Hamlet, 1 Cottage, 1 Silver Mine, 2 Scientists

Sun Tzu Wu
 
Sorry for not putting up a new plan, but my civ pc has broke down, and I've been trying to get it running again.

I haven't had any luck with it, so it means you have to skip me this turnset, as I'll be busy the next couple of days.
So JerichoHill, go ahead.

I'll let you know when I'm ready again.
 
Sorry to hear about your PC troubles, McArine. :(

We don't want to lose a member of the team this early! Too many SGOTMs have ended up with just two or three players left trying to finish the game. I hope you are able to get everything fixed and will be back in the rotation soon.

JerichoHill, I hope your exams and such went well, and you are now enjoying some freedom. :) I think the major parts of McArine's previously posted plan were pretty good -- we just need some numbers run for the various options on chopping, whipping, etc. for the capital's library and scientists and the second city's monument.
 
I'm back on board again now. I would have updated the Page 1 posts last night but there was some important news story or other here in the UK :mischief: so I was pre-occupied with that, and I'll update Page 1 this evening instead.
 
Okay, here is my 24 hour "Got It"

Taking McArine's plan (very sorry to hear your computer is busted dude) and Sun Tzu's suggestion
My Turnset Plan

Note: From Sun Tzu Wu

However we whip the Library, please work the Cottage -> Hamlet as much as possible:

The nice part about growing to Pop 6 and whipping 3 Pop is the Cottage can always be worked (it is now only 7-8 turns from becoming a Hamlet). When forced to work either the Cottage or the Silver Mine, I'd prefer the Cottage for two reasons:

1) We keep the Cottage on track to become a Town (eventually).
2) Growth rate is +2 Fpt more with the Cottage versus the Silver Mine and it only costs us -4 Commerce per turn (When the Cottage becomes a Hamlet that difference will drop -3 Commerce per turn).

After whipping the Library, we will want to hire 1 Scientist for 1t and thereafter hire two Scientists as haphazard1 previously pointed out is still optimal versus hiring two Scientists immediately.

After whipping the Library, at Population 3 we will be working 1 Scientist for 1t or more as required:

1) Still growing fast (+8 Fpt): 2 Corn Farms, 1 Scientist

At Population 4 we will be working 2 Scientists until Pop 5 or the GS pops:

1) Still growing fast (+6 Fpt): 2 Corn Farms, 2 Scientists

At Population 5 we will be working 1st Cottage/Hamlet and 2 Scientists until Pop 6 or the GS pops:

1) Still growing fast (+6 Fpt): 2 Corn Farms, 1 Cottage/Hamlet, 2 Scientists

After the first Cottage is covered, we need to prioritize the second Cottage, so at Population 6 until the GS pops we will be working either:

1) Still growing fast (+6 Fpt): 2 Corn Farms, 1 Cottage/Hamlet, 1 Cottage, 2 Scientists
2) No growth: 1 Corn Farm, 1 Cottage/Hamlet, 1 Cottage, 1 Silver Mine, 2 Scientists
---

So that's my main city plan. I suppose I'll start a granary after the whip. Then Warriors.

In WheatCowIncense, I'll whip the Monument as soon as it grows, and then switch to Granary, as this city will also end up using the whip a lot.

I'll get open borders with Zara, and send a warrior over to check his lands out.

Workers will split up, and start prechopping. Unless someone has a good idea for the fresh water plains at WheatCowIncense.

I'll ignore research in this turnset, and keep the slider on 0%

I'll promote Sunil Gravaskar to Combat1, unless someone don't agree, and try to keep as many of the warriors alive.

I'll rename the new warriors, but not with Indian cricketeers, as I don't know any.
I'll try to keep the warriors alive

I'm not seeing much else. Thoughts?
 
Welcome back, ianw1610! I hope your trip went well.

JerichoHill,

A few comments on the plan:

- In the capital, we may have some hammers into a granary already. Agree we should finish this ASAP after the library is completed.

- After the granary, maybe we should build a barracks in the capital rather than more warriors? We are near (or at) our support cap already. Investing in quality rather than quantity will pay off later.

- Check when the capital's borders will pop again -- we should be prepared to get the copper hooked up as soon as possible. Zara is not a threat as he is pleased (I think), but tougher barbs will be appearing fairly soon.

- Our second city can produce the monument either by hammers (work the plains hill forest, 9T) or by whip (work oasis, whip at size 2, 11T). Hammers is a bit faster but the oasis and whip plan produces more commerce and will give us some nice overflow hammers to start our granary. I like the oasis/whip plan as I think we can use the extra 2C each turn, but maybe the saved turns is better?

Good luck with the turnset!
 
JerichoHill said:
Okay, here is my 24 hour "Got It"

... <JerichoHill's Plan: See above.> ...

I'm not seeing much else. Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Excellent plan ;)

Like haphazard1, mentioned, please resume Granary after Library.

I prefer working the Oasis in WheatCowIncense and whipping the Monument in 11t, again like haphazard1 suggested.

Go for it!

Sun Tzu Wu
 
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