I agree if we can get Alpha for Math would be a big plus. I'm thinking I need to check the cost difference between the 2 but it might be worth putting a couple/few of turns of alpha before Aesth or during so we can trade as soon as he gets it. Otherwise there is a good chance math will be his next tech choice.
SGOTM 11 - ChokoMisfits
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
I agree if we can get Alpha for Math would be a big plus. I'm thinking I need to check the cost difference between the 2 but it might be worth putting a couple/few of turns of alpha before Aesth or during so we can trade as soon as he gets it. Otherwise there is a good chance math will be his next tech choice.
ianw1610
King
Also don't forget to gift Corn to Zara right away... I just cancelled that deal on the current turn, as we no longer needed the Cow from him.
Another word about the dot mapping - obviously our city placement decisions may change, as and when we locate Iron, within our territory...
Another word about the dot mapping - obviously our city placement decisions may change, as and when we locate Iron, within our territory...
haphazard1
Dancing Bear
Plan outline looks pretty good, Sleepless.
Sending the initial WB to make contact...well, I guess we need it. But I hate slowing the growth of PigFish by not whipping a monument first. It is going to take 15 turns after the monument to pop borders and get the stronger tiles as it is, unless we get lucky and religion spreads on its own. But we need the contact with more AIs.
On Alpha with Zara, definitely we should check the difference between Math and Alpha and maybe put some turns in ahead of time. We don't know who Zara knows, and if we are not ready he might get Math from someone else. Or start researching it himself, as already noted.
For OW, why start another settler without regrowing from the whip? If we have a useful tile to work, getting that pop back should not delay the second settler much (if at all). Just something to consider.
We do want to the road to PigFish, but after the pasture. Let's get the city working the improved tile, then get our road link in place.
Monuments or wait for religion...meh.
We have not gotten lucky on religious spread so far. I was really hoping we would get at least one city Buddhist by now.
Sending the initial WB to make contact...well, I guess we need it. But I hate slowing the growth of PigFish by not whipping a monument first. It is going to take 15 turns after the monument to pop borders and get the stronger tiles as it is, unless we get lucky and religion spreads on its own. But we need the contact with more AIs.
On Alpha with Zara, definitely we should check the difference between Math and Alpha and maybe put some turns in ahead of time. We don't know who Zara knows, and if we are not ready he might get Math from someone else. Or start researching it himself, as already noted.
For OW, why start another settler without regrowing from the whip? If we have a useful tile to work, getting that pop back should not delay the second settler much (if at all). Just something to consider.
We do want to the road to PigFish, but after the pasture. Let's get the city working the improved tile, then get our road link in place.
Monuments or wait for religion...meh.
We have not gotten lucky on religious spread so far. I was really hoping we would get at least one city Buddhist by now.
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I'll assume we will work the Cottage that will be finished in 4 turns, thus Aqueduct will get 5 Hpt from Capital center (2H) + Silver Mine (3H), when the Capital grows to 7 Pop.
There are three places into the Aqueduct build where this can be done:
1) Wait till last turn where a 3 Pop whip is possible (just over 2 * 44 Hammers left):
Right now, we need 117H to complete the Aqueduct. After 5 turns at 5 Hpt, there will be 92H left to complete the Aqueduct. A 3 Pop whip is executed which provides 3 Pop * 44 H/Pop = 132H. Only 92H of this whip is required to complete, thus the remaining 40H will overflow into the next build (The Hanging Gardens). This will drop the Capital's Population from 7 down to 4, but it will recover fast to 7 (1+ Unhappiness should decay by time the Capital recovers to Pop 7).
2) Wait till last turn where a 2 Pop whip is possible (just over 1 * 44 Hammers left):
We would likely work a GH Mine at Pop 8 (assuming 1 Unhappiness decays by then), so this point in time will likely happen sooner than computed. The time to whip can be micro managed by adjusting the Population's work orders. Whip when Hammers left is just over 44.
Right now, we need 117H to complete the Aqueduct. After 14 turns at 5 Hpt, there will be 47H left to complete the Aqueduct. A 2 Pop whip is executed which provides 2 Pop * 44 H/Pop = 88H. Only 47H of this whip is required to complete, thus the remaining 41H will overflow into the next build (The Hanging Gardens). This will drop the Capital's Population from 7-8 down to 5-6, but it will recover fast to 7-8 (2+ Unhappiness should decay by time the Capital recovers to Pop 7-8).
3) Wait till last turn where a 1 Pop whip is possible (just over 0 * 44 Hammers left):
This option is academic. In reality we would be building at 8 Hpt (+1 GH Manie) or even 11 Hpt (+2 GH Mines). There would be no reason to still build at only 5 Hpt.
Right now, we need 117H to complete the Aqueduct. After 23 turns at 5 Hpt, there will be 2H left to complete the Aqueduct. A 1 Pop whip is executed which provides 1 Pop * 44 H/Pop = 44H. Only 2H of this whip is required to complete, thus the remaining 42H will overflow into the next build (The Hanging Gardens). This will drop the Capital's Population from 8-9 down to 7-8, but it will recover fast to 8 (2+ Unhappiness should decay by time the Capital recovers to Pop 8; Recovery to 9 will occur in 15t, the normal whipping Unhappiness decay length for Epic speed).
I prefer option 1, but option 2 would be OK, especially if it allows working 4 Cottages and a GH Mine for a while.
Completing Hanging Gardens: We definitely want to be working the Silver Mine, and at least 2 GH Mines for 11 Hpt, so when the Worker finishes the Cottage, he should hop onto the GH 1-E and immediately build a GH Mine.
Sun Tzu Wu
There are three places into the Aqueduct build where this can be done:
1) Wait till last turn where a 3 Pop whip is possible (just over 2 * 44 Hammers left):
Right now, we need 117H to complete the Aqueduct. After 5 turns at 5 Hpt, there will be 92H left to complete the Aqueduct. A 3 Pop whip is executed which provides 3 Pop * 44 H/Pop = 132H. Only 92H of this whip is required to complete, thus the remaining 40H will overflow into the next build (The Hanging Gardens). This will drop the Capital's Population from 7 down to 4, but it will recover fast to 7 (1+ Unhappiness should decay by time the Capital recovers to Pop 7).
2) Wait till last turn where a 2 Pop whip is possible (just over 1 * 44 Hammers left):
We would likely work a GH Mine at Pop 8 (assuming 1 Unhappiness decays by then), so this point in time will likely happen sooner than computed. The time to whip can be micro managed by adjusting the Population's work orders. Whip when Hammers left is just over 44.
Right now, we need 117H to complete the Aqueduct. After 14 turns at 5 Hpt, there will be 47H left to complete the Aqueduct. A 2 Pop whip is executed which provides 2 Pop * 44 H/Pop = 88H. Only 47H of this whip is required to complete, thus the remaining 41H will overflow into the next build (The Hanging Gardens). This will drop the Capital's Population from 7-8 down to 5-6, but it will recover fast to 7-8 (2+ Unhappiness should decay by time the Capital recovers to Pop 7-8).
3) Wait till last turn where a 1 Pop whip is possible (just over 0 * 44 Hammers left):
This option is academic. In reality we would be building at 8 Hpt (+1 GH Manie) or even 11 Hpt (+2 GH Mines). There would be no reason to still build at only 5 Hpt.
Right now, we need 117H to complete the Aqueduct. After 23 turns at 5 Hpt, there will be 2H left to complete the Aqueduct. A 1 Pop whip is executed which provides 1 Pop * 44 H/Pop = 44H. Only 2H of this whip is required to complete, thus the remaining 42H will overflow into the next build (The Hanging Gardens). This will drop the Capital's Population from 8-9 down to 7-8, but it will recover fast to 8 (2+ Unhappiness should decay by time the Capital recovers to Pop 8; Recovery to 9 will occur in 15t, the normal whipping Unhappiness decay length for Epic speed).
I prefer option 1, but option 2 would be OK, especially if it allows working 4 Cottages and a GH Mine for a while.
Completing Hanging Gardens: We definitely want to be working the Silver Mine, and at least 2 GH Mines for 11 Hpt, so when the Worker finishes the Cottage, he should hop onto the GH 1-E and immediately build a GH Mine.
Sun Tzu Wu
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Trading Mathematics to Zara Yaqob for Alphabet:
I just want to point out the obvious that in addition to Mathematics, we might have another Technology to trade like Masonry that Zara probably doesn't have and may allow us to get Alphabet without even a single turn of Researching it.
RiceMarble build order or location:
The Marble Tile is in Ring 2 of the proposed location of RiceMarble. While it is desirable to have RiceMarble both on the coast (Port) and adjacent to a River (+2 Health), we need to consider how soon we need Marble.
1) The City probably should be the next City we build, so there is sufficient Time to pop Borders to Ring 2.
2) The City could also be settled on the Desert Tile 1-NE of its current location. This would change would still allow working 4 Floodplains, Rice and Marble. None of these Floodplains would be shared with CrabFish. A Cow in Ring 2 becomes shareable with Threeclams. The downside is no +2 Health for fresh water and no Port City builds like Harbor, Galleys, and Work Boats.
I don't feel strongly for either RiceMarble's current location or the one I just proposed. I think it depends on how soon we need Marble and whether this RiceMarble becomes our next City or not.
I do think that option 1 should be strongly considered where RiceMarble is built next, since it could help build Work Boats for ThreeClams, if RiceMarble is built 1-S of Rice as currently planned.
Sun Tzu Wu
I just want to point out the obvious that in addition to Mathematics, we might have another Technology to trade like Masonry that Zara probably doesn't have and may allow us to get Alphabet without even a single turn of Researching it.
RiceMarble build order or location:
The Marble Tile is in Ring 2 of the proposed location of RiceMarble. While it is desirable to have RiceMarble both on the coast (Port) and adjacent to a River (+2 Health), we need to consider how soon we need Marble.
1) The City probably should be the next City we build, so there is sufficient Time to pop Borders to Ring 2.
2) The City could also be settled on the Desert Tile 1-NE of its current location. This would change would still allow working 4 Floodplains, Rice and Marble. None of these Floodplains would be shared with CrabFish. A Cow in Ring 2 becomes shareable with Threeclams. The downside is no +2 Health for fresh water and no Port City builds like Harbor, Galleys, and Work Boats.
I don't feel strongly for either RiceMarble's current location or the one I just proposed. I think it depends on how soon we need Marble and whether this RiceMarble becomes our next City or not.
I do think that option 1 should be strongly considered where RiceMarble is built next, since it could help build Work Boats for ThreeClams, if RiceMarble is built 1-S of Rice as currently planned.
Sun Tzu Wu
The capital is at +2 unhappiness at the moment so I'll have to load the save and look at the aquaduct build a bit more but I favour option 1. Especially if we are going to put the GLib in there. Although I don't think we will have the marble hooked up by then.
Pig/Fish it is possible we can slow build the wb and whip the monument at 2 pop. Another one I would have to look at more closely. I do think it is more important to find the other AI if we are going to have Alpha in 10 turns. Means we can trade it before possibly before Zara.
OW. The plan was to go for a 1 pop whip. If we go for 2 and then another one it means losing a few turns on either an improved tile or the Oasis. Possibly do 2 with max carry over to the second settler.
Pig/Fish it is possible we can slow build the wb and whip the monument at 2 pop. Another one I would have to look at more closely. I do think it is more important to find the other AI if we are going to have Alpha in 10 turns. Means we can trade it before possibly before Zara.
OW. The plan was to go for a 1 pop whip. If we go for 2 and then another one it means losing a few turns on either an improved tile or the Oasis. Possibly do 2 with max carry over to the second settler.
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Capital:
Needing Marble for The Great Library and also for National Epic are both good reasons to be concerned when we can get Marble connected.
PigFish:
I agree that PigFish should continue building a Work Boat. Once the Cow is completed (2-3t), the Work Boat will build much faster and PigFish will grow a little faster. At 4 Hpt in 2-3t, the Work Boat should complete in 12-13t. Hopefully, the Work Boat can contact another AI leader in maybe another 10t?
OasisWheat:
I would go with a Pop 2 with maximum overflow into the next build. Maybe catch the overflow by starting a Settler or Worker for 1t, but we need to build something else immediately afterwards to regain Population and grow to max Cap (or close to it). Maybe we should build a Library in OasisWheat (overflow into Settler/Worker first); we will eventually need to decide which six Cities will build Universities and they must ideally have their Libraries completed before we complete Education for then we will be using Slavery to build Universities ASAP. After Aesthetics, we should build Schwendagon Paya in OasisWheat as Sleepless suggested.
Growing to Happiness Cap:
We should be using Slavery to build Settlers and Workers as much as possible, since most of our Cities are well below Happiness Cap (due partially to Representation). Use Great Wonders, Library, Granary, and even some Barracks builds to allow our Cities to grow to Happiness Cap.
Sun Tzu Wu
Needing Marble for The Great Library and also for National Epic are both good reasons to be concerned when we can get Marble connected.
PigFish:
Pig/Fish it is possible we can slow build the wb and whip the monument at 2 pop. Another one I would have to look at more closely. I do think it is more important to find the other AI if we are going to have Alpha in 10 turns. Means we can trade it before possibly before Zara.
I agree that PigFish should continue building a Work Boat. Once the Cow is completed (2-3t), the Work Boat will build much faster and PigFish will grow a little faster. At 4 Hpt in 2-3t, the Work Boat should complete in 12-13t. Hopefully, the Work Boat can contact another AI leader in maybe another 10t?
OasisWheat:
I would go with a Pop 2 with maximum overflow into the next build. Maybe catch the overflow by starting a Settler or Worker for 1t, but we need to build something else immediately afterwards to regain Population and grow to max Cap (or close to it). Maybe we should build a Library in OasisWheat (overflow into Settler/Worker first); we will eventually need to decide which six Cities will build Universities and they must ideally have their Libraries completed before we complete Education for then we will be using Slavery to build Universities ASAP. After Aesthetics, we should build Schwendagon Paya in OasisWheat as Sleepless suggested.
Growing to Happiness Cap:
We should be using Slavery to build Settlers and Workers as much as possible, since most of our Cities are well below Happiness Cap (due partially to Representation). Use Great Wonders, Library, Granary, and even some Barracks builds to allow our Cities to grow to Happiness Cap.
Sun Tzu Wu
haphazard1
Dancing Bear
I like option 1 (the 3-pop whip) for the aquaduct. We can overflow to the HG and regrow while working on the wonder. We get the bonus for having stone while building HG, but not while building the aquaduct. So I think we want to whip sooner rather than later, while still allowing for max overflow.
I agree with Sun Tzu Wu that we should found RiceMarble next and work to get its borders popped so we can hook up marble. We may not be able to get it online before starting the Great Library, but maybe we can get it for at least part of the build. I like the river-side location for coast and fresh water health bonus, but if we move the site I think coastal is more valuable than fresh water. We need more coastal cities for future ship building.
I agree with Sun Tzu Wu that we should found RiceMarble next and work to get its borders popped so we can hook up marble. We may not be able to get it online before starting the Great Library, but maybe we can get it for at least part of the build. I like the river-side location for coast and fresh water health bonus, but if we move the site I think coastal is more valuable than fresh water. We need more coastal cities for future ship building.
Had another look at the save. look to 2 pop whip the settler in OW. Small overflow into Lib then change back to settler at size 4. I still fancy 3 clams as our 5th city. It will take a border pop to get the marble but there is now way we will lose the GLib at this level and we still need to build the HG so plenty of time.
Sun Tzu Wu is probably right about the trade as Zara doesn't have Masonry, hasn't built any walls anyway, so that plus math would prob be enough for Alpha so will stick to Aesth.
Capital. If no objections will 3 pop whip the Aqua in 5 turns. Overflow to HG. Note it does grow an extra pop in 4 turns so will be pop 8/5 when whipped.
Worker from Horse/Bronze will head to 3 clams to build pasture/roads.
Looking at playing tomorrow in about 38 hrs from now so all suggestions welcomed.
As for libraries I would go for them in our first 6 cites so we have the pop for immediate whipping of unis when we get Edu. Plus if nec we can stagnate growth with GS's.
Sun Tzu Wu is probably right about the trade as Zara doesn't have Masonry, hasn't built any walls anyway, so that plus math would prob be enough for Alpha so will stick to Aesth.
Capital. If no objections will 3 pop whip the Aqua in 5 turns. Overflow to HG. Note it does grow an extra pop in 4 turns so will be pop 8/5 when whipped.
Worker from Horse/Bronze will head to 3 clams to build pasture/roads.
Looking at playing tomorrow in about 38 hrs from now so all suggestions welcomed.
As for libraries I would go for them in our first 6 cites so we have the pop for immediate whipping of unis when we get Edu. Plus if nec we can stagnate growth with GS's.
Mighty Dwaarf
Ginger Beast
Ok guys,
If we need marble hooked up sooner rather than whipping out a monument at size two could we not chop the forest next to the original rice/marble sight??
Other than that I think the plan for next turnset is good!!
If we need marble hooked up sooner rather than whipping out a monument at size two could we not chop the forest next to the original rice/marble sight??
Other than that I think the plan for next turnset is good!!
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Excellent idea Mighty Dwaarf!
We should get a Worker on the Forests adjacent to the Site to preChop it ASAP!
Sun Tzu Wu
If we go for rice/marble as the next city I assume it is the forest to the SE we need to chop? The reason I'm not so keen on that is the lack of hammers the city has. Admittedly 3Clam has the same problem but at least it has the cow there so could chop 1S of that city.
So as I will settle one or the other this turnset what is the main concensus. Looking to play in about 13/14 hours time.
So as I will settle one or the other this turnset what is the main concensus. Looking to play in about 13/14 hours time.
JerichoHill
Bedrock of Knowledge
We can prechop without penalty and debate to chop later...some wasted worker turns if we don't, but...
everything else looks very solid, and agreed on the lib plan, we'll need universities quickly to help our research stay ahead of the AI
everything else looks very solid, and agreed on the lib plan, we'll need universities quickly to help our research stay ahead of the AI
Here is your Session Turn Log from 1075 BC to 775 BC:
Turn 123, 925 BC: RiceMarble has been founded.
Turn 127, 825 BC: OasisWheat can hurry Settler for 2? with 19? overflow and +1? for 21 turns.
Turn 127, 825 BC: PigFish will grow to size 2 on the next turn.
Turn 128, 800 BC: PigFish has grown to size 2.
Turn 128, 800 BC: PigFish can hurry Work Boat for 1? with 45? overflow, 1? added to the treasury, and +1? for 15 turns.
Turn 128, 800 BC: St. Peter (Great Prophet) has been born in a far away land!
Turn 129, 775 BC: Zara Yaqob will trade Alphabet, Hunting, Iron Working, Meditation
Well as you can see from the turnset log very little happened. I did have my computer shut down on turn 120 due to too much dust in the fan/overheating then had to save and start again in 950BC although no crash this time but comp was making a weird noise. Managed to sort that out though. AlanH informed by pm about the need to reload from the autosave/crash.
I played until Zara had alpha. Due to settling rice marble we are still 2 turns from Aesth and are only up Math on Zara. Lets hope he doesn't go for that next.
Started by trading corn for clam with Zara. I whipped the OW settler for 2 pop with a small overflow into a library then when back to size 4 started a settler again. I would let the settler finish (perhaps go back to lib and finishthe settler before decay sets in) although I think we need to delay any more cities till we can run some rep scientists as our tech rate has fallen badly.
3 pop whipped the aquaduct in Capital with a big overflow into the HG. Currently starving the capital as we need the commerce. There is an unmoved worker and I recommend we put a chop into the HG. Especially if we trade Math. Just have to decide where.
Horse/Bronze. I slow finished the worker currently farming a fp for it. Went to build a barracks but changed to a Lib as it gives us the possibility of running a couple of scientists there.
Pig/Fish. Slow built the wb and when it got to 2 pop whipped it with enough overflow for a monument which will build next turn.
Rice marble. Chopped the monument and currently building a granary. Built a farm on the rice only because we need it to road towards the marble. About 11 turns till the border pop.
I moved a couple of the warriors to fogbust some of the coast hoping to avoid barb galleys spawning. The wb from PFish is currently heading East to see if we can find some more AI. Although it still has a long way to go. Note there is sugar on the little island to the North as well.
Save is uploaded.
Getting a bit late for me so will come up with some thoughts tomorrow.
Turn 123, 925 BC: RiceMarble has been founded.
Turn 127, 825 BC: OasisWheat can hurry Settler for 2? with 19? overflow and +1? for 21 turns.
Turn 127, 825 BC: PigFish will grow to size 2 on the next turn.
Turn 128, 800 BC: PigFish has grown to size 2.
Turn 128, 800 BC: PigFish can hurry Work Boat for 1? with 45? overflow, 1? added to the treasury, and +1? for 15 turns.
Turn 128, 800 BC: St. Peter (Great Prophet) has been born in a far away land!
Turn 129, 775 BC: Zara Yaqob will trade Alphabet, Hunting, Iron Working, Meditation
Well as you can see from the turnset log very little happened. I did have my computer shut down on turn 120 due to too much dust in the fan/overheating then had to save and start again in 950BC although no crash this time but comp was making a weird noise. Managed to sort that out though. AlanH informed by pm about the need to reload from the autosave/crash.
I played until Zara had alpha. Due to settling rice marble we are still 2 turns from Aesth and are only up Math on Zara. Lets hope he doesn't go for that next.
Started by trading corn for clam with Zara. I whipped the OW settler for 2 pop with a small overflow into a library then when back to size 4 started a settler again. I would let the settler finish (perhaps go back to lib and finishthe settler before decay sets in) although I think we need to delay any more cities till we can run some rep scientists as our tech rate has fallen badly.
3 pop whipped the aquaduct in Capital with a big overflow into the HG. Currently starving the capital as we need the commerce. There is an unmoved worker and I recommend we put a chop into the HG. Especially if we trade Math. Just have to decide where.
Horse/Bronze. I slow finished the worker currently farming a fp for it. Went to build a barracks but changed to a Lib as it gives us the possibility of running a couple of scientists there.
Pig/Fish. Slow built the wb and when it got to 2 pop whipped it with enough overflow for a monument which will build next turn.
Rice marble. Chopped the monument and currently building a granary. Built a farm on the rice only because we need it to road towards the marble. About 11 turns till the border pop.
I moved a couple of the warriors to fogbust some of the coast hoping to avoid barb galleys spawning. The wb from PFish is currently heading East to see if we can find some more AI. Although it still has a long way to go.
Note there is sugar on the little island to the North as well.Save is uploaded.
Getting a bit late for me so will come up with some thoughts tomorrow.
haphazard1
Dancing Bear
Sounds like a solid turnset, Sleepless. 
Sugar to the north? Very nice. We will definitely want a city there. Food, happiness, tiny bit of commerce -- what's not to like?
Our tech rate is falling but that is not unexpected as we push expansion hard. This will pay off later as we will have enough established cities to immediately build/whip universities and start Oxford when Education comes in.
About the expected list of techs from Zara; Archery hidden behind Hunting for sure, maybe more? He is certainly teching strongly with all those cottaged flood plains at his capital. What do we trade for? Alpha, even though we have no immediate use for it? Iron Working certainly has value as well, for the knowledge of iron if nothing else. How far away is our exploring WB from possible contact?
I agree we need to get some libraries in place so we can hire some Rep-boosted scientists. Just takes some time to get the infrastructure in place.
More comments later after I get home from work and can check the save.
Sugar to the north? Very nice.
We will definitely want a city there. Food, happiness, tiny bit of commerce -- what's not to like?Our tech rate is falling but that is not unexpected as we push expansion hard. This will pay off later as we will have enough established cities to immediately build/whip universities and start Oxford when Education comes in.
About the expected list of techs from Zara; Archery hidden behind Hunting for sure, maybe more? He is certainly teching strongly with all those cottaged flood plains at his capital. What do we trade for? Alpha, even though we have no immediate use for it? Iron Working certainly has value as well, for the knowledge of iron if nothing else. How far away is our exploring WB from possible contact?
I agree we need to get some libraries in place so we can hire some Rep-boosted scientists. Just takes some time to get the infrastructure in place.
More comments later after I get home from work and can check the save.
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Good solid turn set Sleepless!
Everything went according to plan.
Nothing more needs to be said.
Acknowledge I'm up now:
I'll have Turn Set Plan out later tonight.
How long do we want turn sets to be? I suspect my last (first) turn set was a little short at 10t.
Sun Tzu Wu
Everything went according to plan.
Nothing more needs to be said.
Acknowledge I'm up now:
I'll have Turn Set Plan out later tonight.
How long do we want turn sets to be? I suspect my last (first) turn set was a little short at 10t.
Sun Tzu Wu
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General Plans:
Maximize Growth to Happiness Cap in all Cities, via building Granary, Library, Monument (Hammer weak Cities only) and Great Wonders when appropriate. Also, build Barracks in Military/Hammer Cities. Increasing our Population will allow many more Tiles to be worked plus Scientists hired and it will increase our free unit level (we are paying 3 Wpt for 3 extra units). Complete one more Settler (making 6 Cities total for Oxford University). Build one more Fast Worker (6 total); 1-2 more as needed (3 max = 8 total).
Use Binary Research to avoid losing any Commerce to truncation in calculating fractional Research and fractional Wealth (paying off National Debt as we go).
Research path: Aesthetics (2t) -> Polytheism (est. 4-6t) -> Literature (est. 9-13t)
Alternate path: Aesthetics (2t) -> Meditation (trade) -> Priesthood (est. 2-3t) -> Code of Laws (16-24t)
Alternate path: Aesthetics (2t) -> Alphabet (until Zara Yaqob will trade for Mathematics); then continue either of the two paths above.
City Plans:
Capital:
Food: Two smallest Cottages -> 2 Corn Farms -> 6 Fpt -> Pop 7 (29/51) + 2F3C in 6t -> 6 Fpt -> Pop 8 (29/54) + 2F2C in 6t (1 Unhappiness should wear off) -> 2 Corn Farms -> 2 new Cottages (2F2C) & -2 Fpt or 1 new Cottage (2F2C) & 2 Fpt.
Hammers: Complete Hanging Gardens in 11t; no Forest Chops. Consider Parthenon as Marble may be connected by now.
Worker: move to ThreeClams' Cow to PreChop Forest and build Pasture.
When possible build Cottage on RS G 2F1C 1S+2W;
OasisWheat:
Food/Hammers: Continue building Settler for 2t, 1 Pop whip the turn before Aesthetics completes, generating 19H overflow; start Schwendagon Paya (675H): 2 *19H OF & 6 Fpt; 4t * 2 * 6 Hpt = 48H; Total 86H = 38H + 48H; Back to 4 Pop in 4t (t135) -> 2 * 10 Hpt -> maximum of 30t more; building 2 Desert Hill Mines will reduce this drastically -- Pop 6 in 12t more (Pop 5 working 2F1H); t147 -> Total 326H = 86H + 12 * 20; 349H left -> 2 * 16 Hpt for 11t; Schwendagon Paya completed on t158 without Forest Chops (27t total). Can complete much faster with 44H Forests, providing 88H each via Gold multiplier; 3 Forests in BFC; chopping all 3 will generate 3 * 28 * 44H = 264H; 264H / 32 Hpt = 8+ turns = Schwendagon Paya 8t sooner (t150).
Workers: build two Desert Hill Mines.
HorseCopper:
Food: Complete Pop 3 (18/39) in 5t; work Floodplains Farm -> 4 Fpt -> Pop 4 (23/42) in 5t more & work Sci-6B (t139); 2 Fpt -> Pop 5 (22/45) in 10t more & work 2nd Sci-6B (t149).
Hammers: Complete Library in 10t, just in time for first Sci-3B above (t139); start Barracks & complete in 10t more (t149); start Fast Worker if needed.
Workers: complete Floodplains Farm; PreChop Forests, and go to PigFish's Pig to build Pasture ASAP.
PigFish:
Food: 3 Fpt -> Pop 2 (1/36) in 10t; continue growing, whipping a Granary and later a Library as detailed below; otherwise grow as large as possible.
Hammers: After Monument completes; start a Work Boat that completes in 11t more (t141); start a Granary and whip ASAP; start a Work Boat and complete without whipping; start Library.
Worker: Start Pig Pasture ASAP with 1 Fast Worker from HorseCopper.
RiceMarble:
Food: 4 Fpt -> Pop 2 (2/36) in 4t -> whip Work Boat -> 4 Fpt -> Pop 2 (2/36) in 9t more; keep Growing, whipping Granary ASAP and Library as needed
Hammers: start Work Boat for Three Clams and whip in 4t; resume Granary; whip Granary ASAP; start Library; whip Library if needed to run Scientists.
Worker: continue Road to Rice; build several Floodplains Farms.
ThreeClams:
Build in 7t (t136)
Hammers: start Monument complete with preChopped Forest 1-S; start Granary and whip ASAP; build two Work Boats and whip if needed (probably not).
Worker: Fast Worker from Capital will start PreChop; then Cow Pasture; then Marble Quarry if Culture permits or RiceMarble's Floodplains Farms.
Work Boat Explorer:
Move clockwise around our continent, exploring new continents when possible.
Sun Tzu Wu
Maximize Growth to Happiness Cap in all Cities, via building Granary, Library, Monument (Hammer weak Cities only) and Great Wonders when appropriate. Also, build Barracks in Military/Hammer Cities. Increasing our Population will allow many more Tiles to be worked plus Scientists hired and it will increase our free unit level (we are paying 3 Wpt for 3 extra units). Complete one more Settler (making 6 Cities total for Oxford University). Build one more Fast Worker (6 total); 1-2 more as needed (3 max = 8 total).
Use Binary Research to avoid losing any Commerce to truncation in calculating fractional Research and fractional Wealth (paying off National Debt as we go).
Research path: Aesthetics (2t) -> Polytheism (est. 4-6t) -> Literature (est. 9-13t)
Alternate path: Aesthetics (2t) -> Meditation (trade) -> Priesthood (est. 2-3t) -> Code of Laws (16-24t)
Alternate path: Aesthetics (2t) -> Alphabet (until Zara Yaqob will trade for Mathematics); then continue either of the two paths above.
City Plans:
Capital:
Food: Two smallest Cottages -> 2 Corn Farms -> 6 Fpt -> Pop 7 (29/51) + 2F3C in 6t -> 6 Fpt -> Pop 8 (29/54) + 2F2C in 6t (1 Unhappiness should wear off) -> 2 Corn Farms -> 2 new Cottages (2F2C) & -2 Fpt or 1 new Cottage (2F2C) & 2 Fpt.
Hammers: Complete Hanging Gardens in 11t; no Forest Chops. Consider Parthenon as Marble may be connected by now.
Worker: move to ThreeClams' Cow to PreChop Forest and build Pasture.
When possible build Cottage on RS G 2F1C 1S+2W;
OasisWheat:
Food/Hammers: Continue building Settler for 2t, 1 Pop whip the turn before Aesthetics completes, generating 19H overflow; start Schwendagon Paya (675H): 2 *19H OF & 6 Fpt; 4t * 2 * 6 Hpt = 48H; Total 86H = 38H + 48H; Back to 4 Pop in 4t (t135) -> 2 * 10 Hpt -> maximum of 30t more; building 2 Desert Hill Mines will reduce this drastically -- Pop 6 in 12t more (Pop 5 working 2F1H); t147 -> Total 326H = 86H + 12 * 20; 349H left -> 2 * 16 Hpt for 11t; Schwendagon Paya completed on t158 without Forest Chops (27t total). Can complete much faster with 44H Forests, providing 88H each via Gold multiplier; 3 Forests in BFC; chopping all 3 will generate 3 * 28 * 44H = 264H; 264H / 32 Hpt = 8+ turns = Schwendagon Paya 8t sooner (t150).
Workers: build two Desert Hill Mines.
HorseCopper:
Food: Complete Pop 3 (18/39) in 5t; work Floodplains Farm -> 4 Fpt -> Pop 4 (23/42) in 5t more & work Sci-6B (t139); 2 Fpt -> Pop 5 (22/45) in 10t more & work 2nd Sci-6B (t149).
Hammers: Complete Library in 10t, just in time for first Sci-3B above (t139); start Barracks & complete in 10t more (t149); start Fast Worker if needed.
Workers: complete Floodplains Farm; PreChop Forests, and go to PigFish's Pig to build Pasture ASAP.
PigFish:
Food: 3 Fpt -> Pop 2 (1/36) in 10t; continue growing, whipping a Granary and later a Library as detailed below; otherwise grow as large as possible.
Hammers: After Monument completes; start a Work Boat that completes in 11t more (t141); start a Granary and whip ASAP; start a Work Boat and complete without whipping; start Library.
Worker: Start Pig Pasture ASAP with 1 Fast Worker from HorseCopper.
RiceMarble:
Food: 4 Fpt -> Pop 2 (2/36) in 4t -> whip Work Boat -> 4 Fpt -> Pop 2 (2/36) in 9t more; keep Growing, whipping Granary ASAP and Library as needed
Hammers: start Work Boat for Three Clams and whip in 4t; resume Granary; whip Granary ASAP; start Library; whip Library if needed to run Scientists.
Worker: continue Road to Rice; build several Floodplains Farms.
ThreeClams:
Build in 7t (t136)
Hammers: start Monument complete with preChopped Forest 1-S; start Granary and whip ASAP; build two Work Boats and whip if needed (probably not).
Worker: Fast Worker from Capital will start PreChop; then Cow Pasture; then Marble Quarry if Culture permits or RiceMarble's Floodplains Farms.
Work Boat Explorer:
Move clockwise around our continent, exploring new continents when possible.
Sun Tzu Wu
Some quick thoughts from my turnset.
Tech Path.
Atm we need Poly for Lit, Med for SPaya/Parth and obviously finish Aesth. Hopefully Zara will go for priest/monarchy but I would be very surprised to not see him go for Math. If he does do we trade Math for IW? After that Curr - CoL - CS etc. See what we can get in trade along the way.
Agree with getting our 6 cities up. Once we have libs in all cities they all have the ability to run 2 scientists giving us a total of 72 bulb points per turn (before commerce/multipliers etc) so not to worried about lack of tech speed atm. Once we have Col/Cur and can run caste that will help a lot although we will have to change back to slavery every now and then for whipping purposes.
Might be worth chopping the forest for the 3clams site so we can have a few more hammers in rice/marble.
Not really a lot else to add atm.
Tech Path.
Atm we need Poly for Lit, Med for SPaya/Parth and obviously finish Aesth. Hopefully Zara will go for priest/monarchy but I would be very surprised to not see him go for Math. If he does do we trade Math for IW? After that Curr - CoL - CS etc. See what we can get in trade along the way.
Agree with getting our 6 cities up. Once we have libs in all cities they all have the ability to run 2 scientists giving us a total of 72 bulb points per turn (before commerce/multipliers etc) so not to worried about lack of tech speed atm. Once we have Col/Cur and can run caste that will help a lot although we will have to change back to slavery every now and then for whipping purposes.
Might be worth chopping the forest for the 3clams site so we can have a few more hammers in rice/marble.
Not really a lot else to add atm.
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2007
- Messages
- 7,920
Thanks, I missed the fact that we need Meditation to build Schwendagon Paya. We also need Polytheism (not Meditation) to build The Parthenon. Polytheism is also required to Research Literature.
To build Schwendagon Paya in OasisWheat soon, we need Meditation ASAP.
We could Research Meditation immediately in 3-5t after completing Aesthetics, but I really don't like Researching Technologies that the AI is willing to trade.
Another idea is Researching Polytheism immediately and trading Mathematics and Polytheism to Zara Yaqob for Alphabet, but that doesn't get us Meditation at all.
Perhaps, we should trade Mathematics for Meditation and Iron Working? Worry about getting Alphabet later. This would allow us to start building Schwendagon Paya in 2t as planned.
Sun Tzu Wu
ianw1610
King
I'm in the office at the moment so won't have access to the save until I get home this evening, but a couple of generic questions...
- Are we still comfortable that we should be pursuing the UN Diplomatic Victory condition, and not the Cultural Victory condition?
- Are we confident that we will have a sufficiently strong military infrastructure to capture the Furs city (presumably from Barbarians) as well as hopefully vassalizing 2 opponents?
And a specific question for McArine - will you be able to take your place in this rota, or is your computer still out of commission??
- Are we still comfortable that we should be pursuing the UN Diplomatic Victory condition, and not the Cultural Victory condition?
- Are we confident that we will have a sufficiently strong military infrastructure to capture the Furs city (presumably from Barbarians) as well as hopefully vassalizing 2 opponents?
And a specific question for McArine - will you be able to take your place in this rota, or is your computer still out of commission??
