LowtherCastle
Deity
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Not sure I understand. Which part don't you like? Are you suggesting to build a settler in Ivory instead of the worker?
SGOTM 11 - One Short Straw
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Haven't had chance to really think about it, much less test. I'm thinking something like: galley / WB (maybe) / settler. Delhi worker still goes there as per plan. New Bombay worker chops one into settler, then goes to cottage Delhi. Bombay does Sugar settler, then either granary or another worker.
LowtherCastle
Deity
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There's no doubt more settlers sacrifices something in exchange. The real question, which is Mutineer's concern, is whether those city sites will be available later on. I also have the opposite concern with the dyes: I'd hate to see us make sacrifices only to be be a few turns late to the dyes and we end up with nothing.
We may get Currency in 2t. I've revolted to Castes and hired the artist in Ivory, moving the slider to 2t. It all depends on the 90% next turn. We'll see. Anyway, I'm only playing to T133, so we'll see if I need to stop in between. I'll be patient...
But first we have to decide about the builds...LowtherCastle
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Problem is, the galley simply takes forever in Ivory. It's not done in time for squat. Probably better to just bring the other one back and if we decide we want another galley poprush it in the west somewhere.
I was thinking the Bombay worker would chop 2 settlers. If it's only going to be one, then I'd rather go back to my original plan: chop worker-settler. It slows the settler down 3t, but gets an extra worker into the mix. Otherwise, there's no extra worker to farm and mine Bombay as it develops later on.
Maybe let's go with original plan for now then? It's a short set, so it's not like we're very committed in Ivory either way.
I've been playing with settler first in Bombay. It's only a 3t delay with worker first? I'd prefer to do as much as possible to avoid closing borders with Zara, but I guess 3t should be ok.
I've been playing with settler first in Bombay. It's only a 3t delay with worker first? I'd prefer to do as much as possible to avoid closing borders with Zara, but I guess 3t should be ok.
LowtherCastle
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Zara's not building a settler now. He needs 7t to build one or 4t if he 2pops it, which he's likely to do. He needs 8t to settle Sugar. So he won't settle it in less than 12t. We should settle it in 14t.
Okay, I'll play.
Turnset report
Finished playing. Things moving along. Nothing unexpected. I think the dyes are long gone. Izzy is REXing, judging from her sabotage production figures.
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Okay, I'll play.
Turnset report
Finished playing. Things moving along. Nothing unexpected. I think the dyes are long gone. Izzy is REXing, judging from her sabotage production figures.
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shyuhe
Deity
Wow what a posting frenzy 
Between gold and dye, I'd definitely settle dye over gold. It's highly likely we'll be able to trade for gold and it's less important than dye. Of course there's the whole risk of not being able to settle dye at all, but I think that's a pretty small chance given the land layout over there. But again, that's something for the future.
Between gold and dye, I'd definitely settle dye over gold. It's highly likely we'll be able to trade for gold and it's less important than dye. Of course there's the whole risk of not being able to settle dye at all, but I think that's a pretty small chance given the land layout over there. But again, that's something for the future.shyuhe
Deity
Looks like it all went according to plan. I guess I'm up? I'll start forming a plan then and see what I come up with 
mushroomshirt
King
Great set LC! I love the slope of our score graph.
I'd hate to see 5th element's thread. I can't imagine more posts than here!
I like that we have focused on GPP for 2fish and cottage spamming and wonder construction for Delhi.
Personally, I like sugar city then dye city w/ granary instead of galley in ivory city. Later we can check to see if gold city spot is still available.
I also like the idea of expanding as much as possible now while there is still open land available. In a normal game we could always DOW to get more lebensraum (so to speak) but here we are more limited so if we don't settle now we may miss out completely.
I'd hate to see 5th element's thread. I can't imagine more posts than here!
I like that we have focused on GPP for 2fish and cottage spamming and wonder construction for Delhi.
Personally, I like sugar city then dye city w/ granary instead of galley in ivory city. Later we can check to see if gold city spot is still available.
I also like the idea of expanding as much as possible now while there is still open land available. In a normal game we could always DOW to get more lebensraum (so to speak) but here we are more limited so if we don't settle now we may miss out completely.
Excellent, LC! 
Everything's moving along nicely.
Where in the world is Justinian? How did he find us so quickly? We really don't have galley turns to spare, but we do still have the missionary and he's still religion-less. (I do know we need that missionary in Two Fish)
Dye does look like a goner at first glance. The warrior may find more dyes inland, though. Or, we can just spy on her development. The unfortunate thing is we can't really do anything we that settler if we miss dye.
The second gold site is better than the first... We'll have a really hard time getting there before Saladin, though.
Are we absolutely set on MC? I'd still like to think the Aesthetics line is a topic of discussion...
Everything's moving along nicely.Where in the world is Justinian? How did he find us so quickly? We really don't have galley turns to spare, but we do still have the missionary and he's still religion-less. (I do know we need that missionary in Two Fish
)Dye does look like a goner at first glance. The warrior may find more dyes inland, though. Or, we can just spy on her development. The unfortunate thing is we can't really do anything we that settler if we miss dye.
The second gold site is better than the first... We'll have a really hard time getting there before Saladin, though.
Are we absolutely set on MC? I'd still like to think the Aesthetics line is a topic of discussion...
shyuhe
Deity
OK, took a look at the save. The undebatable things:
1. WBs continue to explore
2. OB with Mehmed. We can cancel after 10 turns if he ends up going a religion that we don't want but for the time being, I don't think there's anything to lose from it and we may get some nice trade routes soon.
3. Continue growing Delhi (how is up for debate though)
4. Continue farming GPP in 2fish
5. Continue improving tiles (how discussed below)
6. Trade for monarchy with Saladin. He is no one's worst enemy right now (although he hates Toku). The two possible options are: monarchy for alphabet + 185 gold (ew), alphabet + sailing + 125 gold (still ew), math + alphabet (he won't take math + sailing + gold) - maybe, and code of laws + sailling + 45 gold. The only reason why I'd hesitate to give code of laws is that it opens up the philosophy bulb (as it has for Toku).
Big picture pressing questions (at least for me):
1. I think we should build more farms than cottages outside of Delhi and maybe Rice. We have representation so we might as well take advantage of it (and the whip of course). With oversea trade routes and a good bureau capital, Delhi should be able to pay for most of our bills.
2. Do we bulb philosophy? Toku can bulb it if he gets a scientist (slightly dangerous) whereas 2fish will crankout out another scientist in approximately 15-20 turns (haven't done the exact math yet). I think we had generally agreed to a yes but I wanted to confirm this point before I start making plans.
3. Do we want to consider adopting OR once our WBs make it past Toku's borders? This may imperil our Izzy relations though, so I'm not sure.
4. Tile improvement choices (outside of Delhi) - I think we should use more farms than cottages for the remaining cities. Dlehi + trade routes should take care of most of our bills, and we want to maximize our use of representation and the whip. Rice can get some cottages on the flood plains but I think every other non-special tile should get a farm from here on out.
5. Overall diplo - theocracy will win us lots of votes but it will kick us out of pacifism. I think this emphasizes the need for the NE in 2fish eventually, as we will want to stay in theocracy towards the end of the game to cultivate the necessary votes (I think). This isn't really a pressing issue but it's more something to keep in mind for now.
6. Dyes - I think they're gone. If Barcelona whipped a settler, then it's almost certainly heading to go settle the dyes. We should try to have some resources we can trade with Izzy in anticipation of when she gets calendar. Fish may actually work
7. Worker distribution. I count the following workers right now: Delhi 1, Bombay 2, Oasis 1, Marble 2, Ivory 1. The ivory, marble (at least one), and oasis workers are pretty much locked into their respective areas. 2fish doesn't need a worker for a long time, so that just leaves the question of dividing the workers between Bombay and Delhi. Once Bombay chops its settler, it can borrow the corn from Delhi so Delhi will slow down its growth a bit (it can work a scientist for the few turns it doesn't have a cottage available, or maybe it should whip?). So I think Delhi 1, Bombay 2 will be fine for now. But this segways into...
8. Other cities. I am assuming that the Bombay settler is going to settle sugar. And I think we all agreed that we're going to need a worker for sugar. Which worker are we going to send? The two candidates are the extra Bombay worker, the marble worker, or have Delhi build another worker (ew). Also, what if any other cities are we considering in the short term? The more I look at the gold, the less inclined I am to settle it. It'll put us in close contact with Saladin, possibly provoking a war (against a protective leader no less). While we may be able to grab cities from him, I'm not sure it's optimal. Also, the crab/gold site just doesn't look like a very good spot. I'd rather go settle the three northern gold to take the fish and just sell the resources for money instead, and settle the crab via the mainland.
Also, I have one additional slightly crazy thought - what about a filler city 3W of Delhi so that it can work some of Delhi's cottages? That will allow Delhi to focus more on production when necessary.
9. Giving in to demands. Who are we going to give in to demands from? Tentatively, I'd like to put Toku up as our competition for the UN as it looks like he'll be big, backwards, and disliked. So that would mean we should give in to demands from Izzy (I want your dyes!), Zara (hopefully peace vassal), and Mehmed (?). I don't know what we should do if we get demands from Justinian. Also, what will our philosophy be on giving away monopoly techs from a demand? We won't be able to consult with the team when these situations come up so I think we should set a general policy on them in line with our overall diplo goal (butter up everyone but Toku?). Also, unless Izzy sends a WB west, she won't make contact with the western continent which is really good for us since it simplifies her diplo demands.
I think that's all the questions I have for now... Sorry if this ends up going back over some of our previous posts I may have missed some things here or there...
Also, in case people are wondering, we can top 150 bpt if we crank 100% science
1. WBs continue to explore
2. OB with Mehmed. We can cancel after 10 turns if he ends up going a religion that we don't want but for the time being, I don't think there's anything to lose from it and we may get some nice trade routes soon.
3. Continue growing Delhi (how is up for debate though)
4. Continue farming GPP in 2fish
5. Continue improving tiles (how discussed below)
6. Trade for monarchy with Saladin. He is no one's worst enemy right now (although he hates Toku). The two possible options are: monarchy for alphabet + 185 gold (ew), alphabet + sailing + 125 gold (still ew), math + alphabet (he won't take math + sailing + gold) - maybe, and code of laws + sailling + 45 gold. The only reason why I'd hesitate to give code of laws is that it opens up the philosophy bulb (as it has for Toku).
Big picture pressing questions (at least for me):
1. I think we should build more farms than cottages outside of Delhi and maybe Rice. We have representation so we might as well take advantage of it (and the whip of course). With oversea trade routes and a good bureau capital, Delhi should be able to pay for most of our bills.
2. Do we bulb philosophy? Toku can bulb it if he gets a scientist (slightly dangerous) whereas 2fish will crankout out another scientist in approximately 15-20 turns (haven't done the exact math yet). I think we had generally agreed to a yes but I wanted to confirm this point before I start making plans.
3. Do we want to consider adopting OR once our WBs make it past Toku's borders? This may imperil our Izzy relations though, so I'm not sure.
4. Tile improvement choices (outside of Delhi) - I think we should use more farms than cottages for the remaining cities. Dlehi + trade routes should take care of most of our bills, and we want to maximize our use of representation and the whip. Rice can get some cottages on the flood plains but I think every other non-special tile should get a farm from here on out.
5. Overall diplo - theocracy will win us lots of votes but it will kick us out of pacifism. I think this emphasizes the need for the NE in 2fish eventually, as we will want to stay in theocracy towards the end of the game to cultivate the necessary votes (I think). This isn't really a pressing issue but it's more something to keep in mind for now.
6. Dyes - I think they're gone. If Barcelona whipped a settler, then it's almost certainly heading to go settle the dyes. We should try to have some resources we can trade with Izzy in anticipation of when she gets calendar. Fish may actually work
7. Worker distribution. I count the following workers right now: Delhi 1, Bombay 2, Oasis 1, Marble 2, Ivory 1. The ivory, marble (at least one), and oasis workers are pretty much locked into their respective areas. 2fish doesn't need a worker for a long time, so that just leaves the question of dividing the workers between Bombay and Delhi. Once Bombay chops its settler, it can borrow the corn from Delhi so Delhi will slow down its growth a bit (it can work a scientist for the few turns it doesn't have a cottage available, or maybe it should whip?). So I think Delhi 1, Bombay 2 will be fine for now. But this segways into...
8. Other cities. I am assuming that the Bombay settler is going to settle sugar. And I think we all agreed that we're going to need a worker for sugar. Which worker are we going to send? The two candidates are the extra Bombay worker, the marble worker, or have Delhi build another worker (ew). Also, what if any other cities are we considering in the short term? The more I look at the gold, the less inclined I am to settle it. It'll put us in close contact with Saladin, possibly provoking a war (against a protective leader no less). While we may be able to grab cities from him, I'm not sure it's optimal. Also, the crab/gold site just doesn't look like a very good spot. I'd rather go settle the three northern gold to take the fish and just sell the resources for money instead, and settle the crab via the mainland.
Also, I have one additional slightly crazy thought - what about a filler city 3W of Delhi so that it can work some of Delhi's cottages? That will allow Delhi to focus more on production when necessary.
9. Giving in to demands. Who are we going to give in to demands from? Tentatively, I'd like to put Toku up as our competition for the UN as it looks like he'll be big, backwards, and disliked. So that would mean we should give in to demands from Izzy (I want your dyes!), Zara (hopefully peace vassal), and Mehmed (?). I don't know what we should do if we get demands from Justinian. Also, what will our philosophy be on giving away monopoly techs from a demand? We won't be able to consult with the team when these situations come up so I think we should set a general policy on them in line with our overall diplo goal (butter up everyone but Toku?). Also, unless Izzy sends a WB west, she won't make contact with the western continent which is really good for us since it simplifies her diplo demands.
I think that's all the questions I have for now... Sorry if this ends up going back over some of our previous posts
I may have missed some things here or there...Also, in case people are wondering, we can top 150 bpt if we crank 100% science
Sorry, shyuhe, no time to reply to that right now. Maybe later tonight...
I would just add a point: we still need three WB's (Marble, Sugar and Ivory). Ivory can take care of itself in due time, and we have one more chop in Oasis. There are some hammers into a WB in Rice, but it doesn't have much in the way of hammers.
Also, it would be nice to get an extra galley somehow.
Maybe later tonight...I would just add a point: we still need three WB's (Marble, Sugar and Ivory). Ivory can take care of itself in due time, and we have one more chop in Oasis. There are some hammers into a WB in Rice, but it doesn't have much in the way of hammers.
Also, it would be nice to get an extra galley somehow.
mushroomshirt
King
My 2 cents:
definitely!
I think yes, although let's re-evaluate once we're past Toku. We're past Izzy so I don't think we care about short-term relations with her.
I think we should settle gold (or preferentially dyes) if available. We're going to want to go to war at some point & Sal is as good as anyone (I'm not sure we should worry so much about protective if we have good siege support). Plus he has the Hindu holy city so he's not likely to change to our religion whether its conf. or Buddhism.
definitely!
I think yes, although let's re-evaluate once we're past Toku. We're past Izzy so I don't think we care about short-term relations with her.
I think we should settle gold (or preferentially dyes) if available. We're going to want to go to war at some point & Sal is as good as anyone (I'm not sure we should worry so much about protective if we have good siege support). Plus he has the Hindu holy city so he's not likely to change to our religion whether its conf. or Buddhism.
Good job LTC 
so much for the 99.44%
Firstly some comments on my own, then I'll comment shyuhe's Wall Of Text
EPs are still 3-1 on zara-just. Some 20 pages back we decided to focus on zara only I thought... OTOH I see we're only 50 EPs away from seeing just's research...
I think we should revolt to slavery and whip library/LH in 2fish. Building it like that takes forever. If we wait too long with whipping it becomes less and less effective.
Great job timing the cottage build in delhi I must say now, if the next improvement came too late for the pop growth we should have bombay borrow the corn for 1t, maybe switching in the granary, it can really use the food. It's not really good to have our second city STILL stuck at pop 2... 
We should retreat our "fogbusting" warriors, we don't need them anyway and they just cost us money, we are currently losing 1gpt to unit supply.
Cancel corn to justy and trade it for sally's 2gpt.
We could bribe toku vs sally or just for the cost of currency+mono. We could probably also bribe mehmed vs izzy but he's so horribly backwards that we have no "big" techs we could give him just yet, we would have to gift him writing first. Whaddya think, too early to stir up some trouble?
Muahaha izzy settling in the deepest jungle... without IW... another demonstration of AI self-crippling...
Now, regarding the religious situation... we could also spread confucianism to mehmed, in this case he and izzy are likely to hate eachother forever and occasionally have some small wars... This would mean we'd most likely have to DOW her ourselves unless we boost mehmed so that he gets 2 sources of dyes at least... that's very risky though. An alternative would be to ship the missionary to the eastern cape of sally's continent and use the missionary as a scout until he finds justinian; we could do this after we brought the settler to sugarisland. I think this would be quite nice to keep toku busy, locked in between 2 religious nuts, all with different religions
Any particular reason we don't have OBs with mehmed?
Now, regarding teching, the other big decision. IMO we have 3 possible next techs: MC, aest, paper. Aest before edu is not popular and I don't see the use of MC just yet as we have no city that has the production to spare to build forges, we're not industrious so they're quite costly. I personally like paper best to trade maps as long as we can (as long as we don't piss off any AI) and make some gold in the process... Often there is quite some gold to be gained by selling maps to everyone, especially here as there are many AIs who didn't meet eachother (and thus know very little of the land). Drawback is that it's a rather expensive tech and will take quite some time to finish, otoh it's directly on the path to oxford, our next big goal.
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But you say that we'll be in theo in the endgame... by that time we'll have NE built anyway.
The question really is, are we going to adopt confucianism or buddhism? If we take buddh we're going to butter up izzy if we don't we might get zara as voluntary vassal and whoever we spread conf to... I really don't know what's best here...
LTC said:
so much for the 99.44% Firstly some comments on my own, then I'll comment shyuhe's Wall Of Text
EPs are still 3-1 on zara-just. Some 20 pages back we decided to focus on zara only I thought... OTOH I see we're only 50 EPs away from seeing just's research...
I think we should revolt to slavery and whip library/LH in 2fish. Building it like that takes forever. If we wait too long with whipping it becomes less and less effective.
Great job timing the cottage build in delhi
I must say now, if the next improvement came too late for the pop growth we should have bombay borrow the corn for 1t, maybe switching in the granary, it can really use the food. It's not really good to have our second city STILL stuck at pop 2... We should retreat our "fogbusting" warriors, we don't need them anyway and they just cost us money, we are currently losing 1gpt to unit supply.
Cancel corn to justy and trade it for sally's 2gpt.
We could bribe toku vs sally or just for the cost of currency+mono. We could probably also bribe mehmed vs izzy but he's so horribly backwards that we have no "big" techs we could give him just yet, we would have to gift him writing first. Whaddya think, too early to stir up some trouble?
Muahaha izzy settling in the deepest jungle... without IW... another demonstration of AI self-crippling...
Now, regarding the religious situation... we could also spread confucianism to mehmed, in this case he and izzy are likely to hate eachother forever and occasionally have some small wars... This would mean we'd most likely have to DOW her ourselves unless we boost mehmed so that he gets 2 sources of dyes at least... that's very risky though. An alternative would be to ship the missionary to the eastern cape of sally's continent and use the missionary as a scout until he finds justinian; we could do this after we brought the settler to sugarisland. I think this would be quite nice to keep toku busy, locked in between 2 religious nuts, all with different religions
Any particular reason we don't have OBs with mehmed?
Now, regarding teching, the other big decision. IMO we have 3 possible next techs: MC, aest, paper. Aest before edu is not popular and I don't see the use of MC just yet as we have no city that has the production to spare to build forges, we're not industrious so they're quite costly. I personally like paper best to trade maps as long as we can (as long as we don't piss off any AI) and make some gold in the process... Often there is quite some gold to be gained by selling maps to everyone, especially here as there are many AIs who didn't meet eachother (and thus know very little of the land). Drawback is that it's a rather expensive tech and will take quite some time to finish, otoh it's directly on the path to oxford, our next big goal.
---
I agree. No cottages whatsoever outside of delhi and rice... well, rice... Might farm those FPs too, that's what I'd have done with rep and philo and caste... and we'll want the pop later anyway when the UN votes come up.shyuhe said:
I'd rather remain in NSR and adopt a religion once pacifism becomes available.
But you say that we'll be in theo in the endgame... by that time we'll have NE built anyway.6. Dyes - I think they're gone. If Barcelona whipped a settler, then it's almost certainly heading to go settle the dyes. We should try to have some resources we can trade with Izzy in anticipation of when she gets calendar. Fish may actually work
Thought about that as well. Having zara and izzy as buddies might be slightly difficult as you may imagine... Since izzy has the dyes we shouldn't piss her off... In this case all we can do is hope that buddhism spreads to mehmed and us... and use our conf miss on justinian... Not really sure we want that though. Problem with making such plans now is the location of the fur. What if it's in the middle of tokus land? Remember, all cities must have access to it so either by air (lol, teching till flight...) or we might have to capture quite a lot of cities, suddently turning our biggest ally into our opponent... it would be great if we could have just mehmed izzy and zara as buddies but I guess that's not possible.
The question really is, are we going to adopt confucianism or buddhism? If we take buddh we're going to butter up izzy if we don't we might get zara as voluntary vassal and whoever we spread conf to... I really don't know what's best here...
Oh, something else, I'll be away from civ from 7th of June till 25th, fulfilling my duty in the completely pointless swiss army goodjob: lol). No access to civ at all but I might be able to read the forum, not yet sure about that, but just on my iphone so don't expect real comments. I'd like to get some shiny pics though
goodjob: lol). No access to civ at all but I might be able to read the forum, not yet sure about that, but just on my iphone so don't expect real comments. I'd like to get some shiny pics though shyuhe
Deity
I'll switch to Zara only.
I don't think we want to whip either for the time being. It's the only city currently in need of a whip, and it doesn't need either building desperately. I think it's more important that we farm the philosophy GS sooner. Once we get that, we can revolt to whip.
Good point, but Delhi may still end up having to work an unimproved tile for a turn or two - I think a scientist is a reasonable solution.Great job timing the cottage build in delhi
We can't move the southern warrior - we don't want any barb galleys popping up down there wrecking our fish nets in 2fish. I think 1gpt is a small price to pay to make sure we keep those nets alive.
Will do.
I'm not so sure on this one. I am willing to reconsider it once we sail past Toku's borders, so that we can potentially dogpile for diplo. Otherwise, what's the point? The AI are already teching too slow to be of any use to us anyways...We could bribe toku vs sally or just for the cost of currency+mono. We could probably also bribe mehmed vs izzy but he's so horribly backwards that we have no "big" techs we could give him just yet, we would have to gift him writing first. Whaddya think, too early to stir up some trouble?
I would not spread anything to Mehmed. We want him to get Buddhism (and us too). Heck, we may even have to found a city over on that continent to get Izzy to spread Buddhism to us...Now, regarding the religious situation... we could also spread confucianism to mehmed, in this case he and izzy are likely to hate eachother forever and occasionally have some small wars... This would mean we'd most likely have to DOW her ourselves unless we boost mehmed so that he gets 2 sources of dyes at least... that's very risky though. An alternative would be to ship the missionary to the eastern cape of sally's continent and use the missionary as a scout until he finds justinian; we could do this after we brought the settler to sugarisland. I think this would be quite nice to keep toku busy, locked in between 2 religious nuts, all with different religions
I think we just met him.
Aesthetics is appealing but not necessary right now since we don't have the hammers for any of its wonders. I like metalcasting mainly so that we can get a forge up in Delhi. We want to increase our odds of that GE before Oxford gets built, to maximize our chances. I'd rather get the GE now, so that we can run more scientists etc. in Delhi later (or build other polluting wonders there like the GL). In a similar vein, paper is appealing but not necessary I think. We'll get it soon enough going up the education tree.
Yeah, well bribing is indeed not a good option, but the worst reason to bribe would be to be able to dogpileshyuhe said:
I was merely having the usual turn trough the advisors and noticed that we'd be able to make some bribes...If we are building HG in delhi we will most likely not have the hammers for a forge. Good point about the GE odds, that's imo the main benefit since we already have +50% on production and it is far from a production powerhouse.
I still prefer paper before MC. I imagine we might be able to tech paper > MC before HG finishes in delhi and we'd get a lot of information sooner, crucial information that will allow us to make appropriate mid- and longterm plans.
We can't bulb Philo with Paper first (opens up Education). I wonder if we could part-tech MC and then do Paper to finish just after the bulb.
I wouldn't run scientists in Delhi for now. We might still be able to get a 100% GE in the early AD's? Obviously it would really hurt not running any there in the long term. Not exactly sure on the timing...
I wouldn't run scientists in Delhi for now. We might still be able to get a 100% GE in the early AD's? Obviously it would really hurt not running any there in the long term. Not exactly sure on the timing...
I'd rather trade our remaining Fish away than shuffle trades. We want to supply every AI (WE considerations aside) with resources for the +2 diplo, and better to start fast. We might end up having to get voted as NSR purely with Theo bonuses, every point of diplo counts.
For reference, the mechanics behind resource trade diplo:
If there are trades to someone, a counter goes up by the number of trades each turn.
If there are no trades, the counter goes down by (OUR_CITIES/4) + 1 each turn until it reaches zero.
The bonus diplo is this counter divided by 50, to a maximum of 2.
As for giving into demands, IMO give into EVERY demand that doesn't result in negative diplo from someone else. Mostly the same reasons. Why would we sit on monopolies? Giving it to 1 AI usually doesn't make him start brokering it, and we will blast away in tech in this game for sure.
About Paper, IMO the bigger benefit than selling maps is actually getting maps in return. We still have two resources in the wind, including the elusive Fur. Knowing what hoops we have to jump through to get the Fur is imperative for our long-term plans. Still I agree MC is a strong choice for now and MC->Paper looks enticing.
If there's a non-jungle spot somewhere near Spain, Bella will almost definitely settle it. Before IW jungle is considered a "bad tile" and AIs will never settle a spot with over 50% "bad tiles" unless there's a 1) new resource 2) food resource in the BFC.
For reference, the mechanics behind resource trade diplo:
If there are trades to someone, a counter goes up by the number of trades each turn.
If there are no trades, the counter goes down by (OUR_CITIES/4) + 1 each turn until it reaches zero.
The bonus diplo is this counter divided by 50, to a maximum of 2.
As for giving into demands, IMO give into EVERY demand that doesn't result in negative diplo from someone else. Mostly the same reasons. Why would we sit on monopolies? Giving it to 1 AI usually doesn't make him start brokering it, and we will blast away in tech in this game for sure.
About Paper, IMO the bigger benefit than selling maps is actually getting maps in return. We still have two resources in the wind, including the elusive Fur. Knowing what hoops we have to jump through to get the Fur is imperative for our long-term plans. Still I agree MC is a strong choice for now and MC->Paper looks enticing.
If there's a non-jungle spot somewhere near Spain, Bella will almost definitely settle it. Before IW jungle is considered a "bad tile" and AIs will never settle a spot with over 50% "bad tiles" unless there's a 1) new resource 2) food resource in the BFC.
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