shyuhe
Deity
I'm doing the recalculations now, but slowing down 2-fish isn't a problem. It's worth the long-term payoff.
SGOTM 11 - One Short Straw
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Now I see it. These things are easy to miss when you try to skim 400+ posts. If we want to send a trieme as escort I assume that we will have to chop it in the rice city before the spy to get it quickly, and the galley being built in Oasis will replace it as our transport to the east/north, with the scout chariot being immediately finished in Bombay to avoid hammer loss?
I think we need to bare in mind that there could be a separate continent in addition to this one on which the furs are located.
The problem with this is that he risks being wiped out if he is not vassalised/ vassalised by another enemy of Japan. Also whilst we will most likely be the largest Civ ourselves, if something unexpected happens we may need to capture some foreign cities and Saladin would be the easiest place to get them if Japan does not get them first.
LowtherCastle
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@mdy: If you can quickly complete a trireme and spy (and chariot), then maybe they could join the western galley and immediately head west. I highly doubt the chariot will be able to scout the barb continent. It'll get ambushed and slaughtered. The spy can explore and survive forever. That's good because later he'll be able to tell us exactly what units we need to capture the furs. To me, the purpose fo the chariot is to lurk on Justy's western coast, warning our approaching trireme/galley about where the barb galleys are and if there are more than one clumped together.
I think we're safe assuming the furs are reachable by galley. Optics is not on the research path for a Cultural Victory.
I think we're safe assuming the furs are reachable by galley. Optics is not on the research path for a Cultural Victory.
LowtherCastle
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Yes. Silu has given us the mechanics.
Not a bad idea, but doesn't Toku have to be at Pleased?
I think there are many reasons to want to have good relations with Toku. Trading gems. COntrolling his rage. Etc.
If we don't hire scientists, by my reckoning we get a GP in the capital on T+16, if we went with the grow to happy cap before hiring great people in 2 fish by my reckoning we would get a GP on T+23. However it occurs to me that it would be more efficient to generate a GS before then to to enable us to bulb printing press, and to generate the merchant afterwards.
I think coverting Japan to buddishm would be a big mistake as he is could be our U.N. rival, and we don't want any of our friends voting for him instead. With the restraint of having only 3 missionaries at the same time we probably couldn't convert him in time anyway.
revised plan:
Slider to 0% until Oxford, then 100%. Tech Aesthetics, Literature, Machinery, Printing Press.
Revolt to Caste System/Pacifism once we have Oxford.
Give Justin 5 gold for his map
Delhi:
Worker chops 2 forests for Oxford, then builds more cottages.
Immediately hire an engineer
T+3 Oxford built, spread buddishm with missionary, continue market, work cottages instead of grass mines.
T+16 Generate GP with about 92% chance of an engineer. If we get an engineer fire the engineer and work cottages instead. If we get a scientist save it for printing press, and hire an engineer in 2 fish to maximise chances for a future engineer.
Ivory:
Immediately switch to working mine, finish Maori, then spam buddist missionaries. Convert our 2 GP farms, and then try to convert Zara.
2 Fish:
Worker 1S 1SW of Bombay goes to chop forests for 2 fish.
Build wealth until literature, then start National Epic. Estimated completion date T+16
Stop working 1F tile while building wealth, then goes back till working hammer tiles.
Grow to size 12 and then hire 7 scientists. Should get GS for printing press at T+19
Rice:
Send warrior SW of Delhi to act as garrison.
Worker farms floodplain, chops forest, farms grass tiles.
Build trieme, finish spy, build wealth.
Marble:
worker roads cows, then the mines near Bombay.
Build wealth
Grow to size 10 and hire merchants.
Oasis:
Finishes galley for east. Builds forge.
2 Sugar:
Worker chops jungle, then builds roads
Work mines as the city grows
build lighthouse-forge
Bombay:
worker builds more farms.
chariot for scouting west continent for galley-barracks-chariot for spying on Saladin- wealth
I think coverting Japan to buddishm would be a big mistake as he is could be our U.N. rival, and we don't want any of our friends voting for him instead. With the restraint of having only 3 missionaries at the same time we probably couldn't convert him in time anyway.
revised plan:
Slider to 0% until Oxford, then 100%. Tech Aesthetics, Literature, Machinery, Printing Press.
Revolt to Caste System/Pacifism once we have Oxford.
Give Justin 5 gold for his map
Delhi:
Worker chops 2 forests for Oxford, then builds more cottages.
Immediately hire an engineer
T+3 Oxford built, spread buddishm with missionary, continue market, work cottages instead of grass mines.
T+16 Generate GP with about 92% chance of an engineer. If we get an engineer fire the engineer and work cottages instead. If we get a scientist save it for printing press, and hire an engineer in 2 fish to maximise chances for a future engineer.
Ivory:
Immediately switch to working mine, finish Maori, then spam buddist missionaries. Convert our 2 GP farms, and then try to convert Zara.
2 Fish:
Worker 1S 1SW of Bombay goes to chop forests for 2 fish.
Build wealth until literature, then start National Epic. Estimated completion date T+16
Stop working 1F tile while building wealth, then goes back till working hammer tiles.
Grow to size 12 and then hire 7 scientists. Should get GS for printing press at T+19
Rice:
Send warrior SW of Delhi to act as garrison.
Worker farms floodplain, chops forest, farms grass tiles.
Build trieme, finish spy, build wealth.
Marble:
worker roads cows, then the mines near Bombay.
Build wealth
Grow to size 10 and hire merchants.
Oasis:
Finishes galley for east. Builds forge.
2 Sugar:
Worker chops jungle, then builds roads
Work mines as the city grows
build lighthouse-forge
Bombay:
worker builds more farms.
chariot for scouting west continent for galley-barracks-chariot for spying on Saladin- wealth
If we don't hire scientists, by my reckoning we get a GP in the capital on T+16, if we went with the grow to happy cap before hiring great people in 2 fish by my reckoning we would get a GP on T+23. However it occurs to me that it would be more efficient to generate a GS before then to to enable us to bulb printing press, and to generate the merchant afterwards.
I think coverting Japan to buddishm would be a big mistake as he is could be our U.N. rival, and we don't want any of our friends voting for him instead. With the restraint of having only 3 missionaries at the same time we probably couldn't convert him in time anyway.
edit: We could trade aesthetics to him once we have it for whatever gold he has to get another +2 for fair trade.
revised plan:
Slider to 0% until Oxford, then 100%. Tech Aesthetics, Literature, Machinery, Printing Press.
Revolt to Caste System/Pacifism once we have Oxford.
Give Justin 5 gold for his map
Delhi:
Worker chops 2 forests for Oxford, then builds more cottages.
Immediately hire an engineer
T+3 Oxford built, spread buddishm with missionary, continue market, work cottages instead of grass mines.
T+16 Generate GP with about 92% chance of an engineer. If we get an engineer fire the engineer and work cottages instead. If we get a scientist save it for printing press, and hire an engineer in 2 fish to maximise chances for a future engineer.
Ivory:
Immediately switch to working mine, finish Maori, then spam buddist missionaries. Convert our 2 GP farms, and then try to convert Zara.
2 Fish:
Worker 1S 1SW of Bombay goes to chop forests for 2 fish.
Build wealth until literature, then start National Epic. Estimated completion date T+16
Stop working 1F tile while building wealth, then goes back till working hammer tiles.
Grow to size 12 and then hire 7 merchants. Should get GM for TOA city on T+19
Rice:
Send warrior SW of Delhi to act as garrison.
Worker farms floodplain, chops forest, farms grass tiles.
Build trieme, finish spy, build wealth.
Marble:
worker roads cows, then the mines near Bombay.
Build wealth
Grow to size 10 and hire scientists.
Oasis:
Finishes galley for east. Builds forge.
2 Sugar:
Worker chops jungle, then builds roads
Work mines as the city grows
build lighthouse-forge
Bombay:
worker builds more farms.
chariot for scouting west continent-barracks-chariot for spying on Saladin- wealth
edit:
He is willing to be bribed into peace now, and he's at cautious with us.
I think coverting Japan to buddishm would be a big mistake as he is could be our U.N. rival, and we don't want any of our friends voting for him instead. With the restraint of having only 3 missionaries at the same time we probably couldn't convert him in time anyway.
edit: We could trade aesthetics to him once we have it for whatever gold he has to get another +2 for fair trade.
revised plan:
Slider to 0% until Oxford, then 100%. Tech Aesthetics, Literature, Machinery, Printing Press.
Revolt to Caste System/Pacifism once we have Oxford.
Give Justin 5 gold for his map
Delhi:
Worker chops 2 forests for Oxford, then builds more cottages.
Immediately hire an engineer
T+3 Oxford built, spread buddishm with missionary, continue market, work cottages instead of grass mines.
T+16 Generate GP with about 92% chance of an engineer. If we get an engineer fire the engineer and work cottages instead. If we get a scientist save it for printing press, and hire an engineer in 2 fish to maximise chances for a future engineer.
Ivory:
Immediately switch to working mine, finish Maori, then spam buddist missionaries. Convert our 2 GP farms, and then try to convert Zara.
2 Fish:
Worker 1S 1SW of Bombay goes to chop forests for 2 fish.
Build wealth until literature, then start National Epic. Estimated completion date T+16
Stop working 1F tile while building wealth, then goes back till working hammer tiles.
Grow to size 12 and then hire 7 merchants. Should get GM for TOA city on T+19
Rice:
Send warrior SW of Delhi to act as garrison.
Worker farms floodplain, chops forest, farms grass tiles.
Build trieme, finish spy, build wealth.
Marble:
worker roads cows, then the mines near Bombay.
Build wealth
Grow to size 10 and hire scientists.
Oasis:
Finishes galley for east. Builds forge.
2 Sugar:
Worker chops jungle, then builds roads
Work mines as the city grows
build lighthouse-forge
Bombay:
worker builds more farms.
chariot for scouting west continent-barracks-chariot for spying on Saladin- wealth
edit:
He is willing to be bribed into peace now, and he's at cautious with us.
shyuhe
Deity
GM for 100% slider should be worth more than a GS for PP. We don't have enough villages/towns for PP to outweigh the multipliers we'd benefit from running 100% slider through Oxford/bureau Delhi.
When did the AI's get aesthetics. I was hoping we could get it after Printing Press.
1 GM won't keep us at 100% till mass media. Would it make any difference if we delayed it by around 10T to get PP earlier? Unless we are planning on 2 GM's of course, but then we run the risk of having some waste gold left over at then end.
shyuhe
Deity
My point is that 10 turns of PP is probably worth less than the bpt differential between our break even point and 100% research over 10 turns.
LowtherCastle
Deity
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Looks good to my blind eyes, mdy. One note, the first chariot, after helping our trireme/galley pair get to the BarbZone, could then return and function as the Sal/Toku observer.
Zara got Aesthetic 3 turns ago I believe.
We can always use excess of gold for rush buying UN, especially if we will need to gift it, so that is not a big factor at all. In addition, our expenses will increase, with more cities and armies even just to take over barbarian continent, so I do not think using 2 GM's will lead to any money excess.
Justinian got Aesthetics first. It was 6-9t ago, can't figure it out exactly from my scattered notes.
Maybe Music's not in too much danger, but I wouldn't risk it. I guess we could tech other stuff after Lit, assuming we can beat anyone from the moment they get Lit? Or, should we put a turn into it first?
PP is nice, but not exactly game-breaking. I think it should be GM as per plan.
Maybe Music's not in too much danger, but I wouldn't risk it. I guess we could tech other stuff after Lit, assuming we can beat anyone from the moment they get Lit? Or, should we put a turn into it first?
PP is nice, but not exactly game-breaking. I think it should be GM as per plan.
LowtherCastle
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mdy, are you planning to cottage non-river tiles in Delhi? If so, is that instead of working specialists? Does that work with our GP spamming?
I don't feel safe trusting Justy to spam Buddhism. I think we need to make sure he has at least his capital in Buddhism and a couple more cities in Buddhism than in any other religion he might get, such as Judaism.
If Ivory is spamming 3 missionaries every 12t, and if one goes to Justy's continent, then that probably just about keeps Ivory producing non-stop. One more thing, I view Rice as a GP spammer, so it also needs BUddhism asap.
I agree with your decision to go for the GM in Two FIsh next. Earlier I calculated it yields about 10,000 beakers, so we could probably use a couple at least.
I don't feel safe trusting Justy to spam Buddhism. I think we need to make sure he has at least his capital in Buddhism and a couple more cities in Buddhism than in any other religion he might get, such as Judaism.
If Ivory is spamming 3 missionaries every 12t, and if one goes to Justy's continent, then that probably just about keeps Ivory producing non-stop. One more thing, I view Rice as a GP spammer, so it also needs BUddhism asap.
I agree with your decision to go for the GM in Two FIsh next. Earlier I calculated it yields about 10,000 beakers, so we could probably use a couple at least.
I think we were planning on just running an engineer there until we get a GP there on T+16. If it is a GE it can be fired in favour of cottages, otherwise continue running the engineer in case we want to try to get another GE there. I was planning on working non riverside cottages as the city grew, and only then hiring scientists once we had no more cottages to work. We should end up with the same number of scientists in the end and the extra commerce from the cottages should make up for the delay in hiring them.
Justin is going to adopt theocracy very soon. If he's still in buddism then he will stay in it so we don't need to worry about him. If he's in a different religion we won't be able to spread buddishm, and we can't realistically get a missionary there before then. The limit on 3 missionaries means that doesn't look like we could do it anyway
shyuhe
Deity
Looks good to me then mdy.
I still prefer Music after Lit, but I think we can decide on that later, as mdy suggested.
The plan sounds good to me.
The plan sounds good to me.
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