shyuhe
Deity
That's my take on their position too. Unless you have a size 20+ city like the Ducks, building the UN actually takes some time.
SGOTM 11 - One Short Straw
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Actually, are they saying that they're founding a new city for the build?! Then the GE-hammer estimate is just wrong - they'll still be 350-400h short after chopping all the forests.
shyuhe
Deity
Reading it back over, it looks like they'll be short 225 + approximately 42 hammers. If it's in a newly founded city, it's going to take them forever to complete the UN since that's about 4000 gold to rush buy.
Well, I'm getting 388h - 30*(extra pop). That's 4650g - they could lose 20t on the build pretty easily. I hope they figure out the real numbers involved before committing to a plan. It would seriously suck to lose a sure bronze like this.
Guys, guys... we're just done playing and now you're so bored you're calculating the other team's UN builds shyuhe
Deity
We have to keep the thread spam up to maintain the illusion that we suffered a devastating catastrophe and are thinking of a way to fix it!
On a more serious note, I've been thinking of some more entertaining SG ideas. One that comes to mind is us in a world full of Monty's on deity. We will, of course, play as Sitting Bull to give ourselves a small chance at victory.
On a more serious note, I've been thinking of some more entertaining SG ideas. One that comes to mind is us in a world full of Monty's on deity. We will, of course, play as Sitting Bull to give ourselves a small chance at victory.
ofc, it really doesn't matter whether we spam or not. We already have silver, and the only way we're winning gold is if kossin forgets to gift back a non-Hindu city or something. 
World full of Montezumas on Deity sounds impossible to me, but I know you guys are capable... Sure, I guess.
We could also try HOF Challenge II-01 on deity? Though, one player already managed it.
Other: I've been wanting to do a deep beeline game - like, select a late tech in F6 immediately. Tired of tech-path discussions... Maybe Communism?
shyuhe
Deity
The Al Gore challenge is always a good one (straight to internet).
Hehe good idea to keep the post count up by discussing next SG 
Well I of course really like the monties-on-deity thing but we'd need some really good map/capital (though no resource with SB). Beeline would be ok too though.
Well I of course really like the monties-on-deity thing but we'd need some really good map/capital (though no resource with SB). Beeline would be ok too though.
Either one works. We could just as well go for... "Full Monte" 
I don't think I've actually ever played Churchill or Gilgamesh, but I guess SB is the only choice here.
I don't think I've actually ever played Churchill or Gilgamesh, but I guess SB is the only choice here.
Xteam's figured out their miscalc.
Ducks have Mass Media on schedule...
Ducks have Mass Media on schedule...
Ok, we can just roll one up then. Sounds like it's just shyuhe, mysty and myself this time? Maybe we can pick up a couple of players (I'm sure kossin, obs or Rusten are up for it) in the SG forum.
Currently it's looking like:
1. Plastic Ducks 930 AD - Turn 238 (finished)
2. One Short Straw 1030 AD - Turn 248 (finished)
Xteam ca. 1200-1250 AD (limit factor: they are estimating their last GP to pop in 1190 AD)
Barley Demons ca. 1250 AD (assuming they pop a GE for UN)
Unusual Suspects maybe 1250 AD (have Radio and a GE at 1010 AD, but no clear way of getting votes)
Smurkz ca. 1300 AD
Gypsy Kings ca. 1300 AD (unclear on some issues, though)
There could be quite a dogfight for bronze.
Plastic Ducks Notes
Settled on PH, as well. Their settling pattern was very different from ours. Bombay went 2S of stone instead, and they settled Vija NWW of stone (!) before 2000 BC - this was their GLH city. Pata (Two Fish equivalent) went SW of pig, giving up one of the fish (?!) They lost the Oasis site to Zara and didn't go for Ivory. Instead they planted the two gold cities next to Saladin relatively early.
Oracle (COL) was built in 1975 BC in Delhi, and they got a touch lucky with their first two GS popping at 70-80% odds. Delhi built Pyramids next, then ToA, while Vija got GLH. They went for Lit before Philo/Paper/Educ, and built TGL in the BC's. Seemed to be slightly ahead of us in research circa 1 AD, our early Oxford and direct beeline pushed ahead in the 1-500 AD period, but they crushed us in the end, riding the wonders, extra GP's and continuous golden age.
Not sure the extra expansion mattered so much. The gpp RNG is substantial, as they popped everything they needed without really trying very hard, whereas we over-dedicated at every juncture and failed (not only the GE obsession - remember also the 5 pages of discussion about the academy GS and all the mess around the second GM). The Delhi gems make a difference, too. All in all, I think gems, better luck and taking out Zara might collectively amount to a closer margin (more like 4-5t instead of 10-11t), but their base strategy (primarily Delhi usage and wonder-spam) seems to be superior.
I guess if the research phase was shorter - we'd win, and that if it was longer - we'd get absolutely massacred. The break-even point is somewhere around Physics/Electricity?
They'll finish tonight, it seems. I'm really curious to hear what they have to say about the game...
Currently it's looking like:
1. Plastic Ducks 930 AD - Turn 238 (finished)
2. One Short Straw 1030 AD - Turn 248 (finished)
Xteam ca. 1200-1250 AD (limit factor: they are estimating their last GP to pop in 1190 AD)
Barley Demons ca. 1250 AD (assuming they pop a GE for UN)
Unusual Suspects maybe 1250 AD (have Radio and a GE at 1010 AD, but no clear way of getting votes)
Smurkz ca. 1300 AD
Gypsy Kings ca. 1300 AD (unclear on some issues, though)
There could be quite a dogfight for bronze.
Plastic Ducks Notes
Settled on PH, as well. Their settling pattern was very different from ours. Bombay went 2S of stone instead, and they settled Vija NWW of stone (!) before 2000 BC - this was their GLH city. Pata (Two Fish equivalent) went SW of pig, giving up one of the fish (?!) They lost the Oasis site to Zara and didn't go for Ivory. Instead they planted the two gold cities next to Saladin relatively early.
Oracle (COL) was built in 1975 BC in Delhi, and they got a touch lucky with their first two GS popping at 70-80% odds. Delhi built Pyramids next, then ToA, while Vija got GLH. They went for Lit before Philo/Paper/Educ, and built TGL in the BC's. Seemed to be slightly ahead of us in research circa 1 AD, our early Oxford and direct beeline pushed ahead in the 1-500 AD period, but they crushed us in the end, riding the wonders, extra GP's and continuous golden age.
Not sure the extra expansion mattered so much. The gpp RNG is substantial, as they popped everything they needed without really trying very hard, whereas we over-dedicated at every juncture and failed (not only the GE obsession - remember also the 5 pages of discussion about the academy GS and all the mess around the second GM). The Delhi gems make a difference, too. All in all, I think gems, better luck and taking out Zara might collectively amount to a closer margin (more like 4-5t instead of 10-11t), but their base strategy (primarily Delhi usage and wonder-spam) seems to be superior.
I guess if the research phase was shorter - we'd win, and that if it was longer - we'd get absolutely massacred. The break-even point is somewhere around Physics/Electricity?
They'll finish tonight, it seems. I'm really curious to hear what they have to say about the game...
I don't think I'd join properly though.shyuhe
Deity
I'm not so sure wonder spamming the capital was a major advantage for the Ducks, even with the wonders 2 fish is still a better GP farm ( and we had much better control over the GP's that were generated, even if the RNG screwed us), and working more production tiles inevitably means commerce suffered. Most of the extra wonders they built did not yield massive benefits. The one exception to this is the Great Lighthouse, building this was probably the single biggest advantage the Ducks had over us. A rough estimate suggests that if we had built it at the expense of slowing down the pyramids we would have been very close to getting the gold.
shyuhe
Deity
Agreed, the map layout meant that GLH was worth lots of commerce since all trade routes except for Zara were intercontinental.
GLH is awesome, yes. So is TGL, if built early enough. We didn't have a coastal city nearly in time for GLH and we were a touch slower in 1000 BC - 1 AD research (no Lit). Their Vija was seemingly a great move - it was the best early coastal production site.
Their Delhi and Two Fish aren't mutually exclusive, ofc. Their Delhi is generating more gpp than our Two Fish, though, and by a significant margin, while working as many villages/towns as ours was. Not sure it's necessarily the way to go - I don't really like the mongrel GP strategy. I was just saying that we sacrificed research in Delhi and probably 1-2 GP in exchange for the GE. No matter how I work the numbers, I can't come close to shaving 10t without changing our Delhi strategy.
Their Delhi and Two Fish aren't mutually exclusive, ofc. Their Delhi is generating more gpp than our Two Fish, though, and by a significant margin, while working as many villages/towns as ours was. Not sure it's necessarily the way to go - I don't really like the mongrel GP strategy. I was just saying that we sacrificed research in Delhi and probably 1-2 GP in exchange for the GE. No matter how I work the numbers, I can't come close to shaving 10t without changing our Delhi strategy.
Update:
Ducks are finished now, in 930 AD, as expected. Not surprisingly, they more than doubled our score - 303k vs. 130k.
Ducks are finished now, in 930 AD, as expected. Not surprisingly, they more than doubled our score - 303k vs. 130k.
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