SGOTM 11 - Shaka, not stirred

[Andronicus]

Problem with leaving Cathy alone is that our troops will be badly out of position when it comes time to get back to her. I had a lot of this kind of problem during my turns because our troops were in eastern Egypt and the homelands while the action was in Turkey. I don't think she'll be all that hard anyway. We do have two armies in the area and the trebs are finally catching up with them.

As for the Jap iron, use the impis to take it out. There are 3 or 4 exploring the area right now.

I dont anticipate Cathy being any problem, rather I suspect we may be slowed fighting JICK by ouselves compared to fighting allied to Cathy. This will especially be the case if India has WEs and Japan samuris - the longer we delay getting to them the more likely they will have chivalry, and disposing of Cathy first would take extra time.

I agree the logistics of getting troops from Ottoman area to Indian area may be a problem, however some will need to remain to repell and advance on Chinese whilst I would envisage new troops going directly to India (shortest route to war for them).

Whatever we decide we will have an awkward front to defend with the string of towns along the eastern side of the inland sea (? the mediterranean)

No problem for impis to take out Jap iron, but then we would need to be fighting in Japan otherwise the impis wont survive and iron will be reconnected - leaving a MDI army there ensures no iron for Jap during the war and we can pummel Indians first who are closer and dont require iron for their UU.

 

[Abegweit]

Using an MDI army in Japan is simply not practical. It would take a dozen turns to get it there (check it). Besides the armies have better things to do. We have impis in the area and they will have to do the job. If we pillage the roads to the mountain, followed by the mountain and then sat on it, it would take him 15-20 turns to get it back.

Using the MDI army in France is a good idea though. It was always my intention but the situation around Leipzig made it impossible. The army was the only cover for the knights. Now that we have a second army and a city of our own, things are different. I'm really in favour of abandoning Leipzig, either this turn or next.

What about allying with Arabs against JICK instead? This will give them a nice easy target to play whack-a-mole against. The AI likes easy targets and the main point is to soak up their units. It is easily accessable from our homeland as well, when the time comes.

After thinking about it for a while, I'm against stealing the Indian iron. With all the mountains, the town would be hard to defend. Hangchow makes a good killing zone for MDIs and bows. Just pillage it. They don't need it much anyway, what with WEs.

Edit: we could gift El-Amarna to the Arabs.

Edit2: to next player. The two slaves se of New Ulundi will complete the irrigation to their north. The granary in Thebes has just completed. Getting new towns around the city to take advantage of the food is needed. We're starting to get a fair amount of gpt. A moderate amount of cash-rushing is helpful. Especially good is to rush a 6spt town to 40 shields (MDI). Another choice is to rush a 10 spt town to almost anything.

 

[Abegweit]

I think it's time to backstab. My proposition.

Joan will give us peace + Invention for 50 gpt. This will solve the situation at Leipzig. As I said, we only need one turn. Get the Viking gold at the same time. Next turn, we can demand that Otto leave (or anyone else who might be on our land - there are French and Viking troops in the area too). If he won't, just declare if we have to.

The Americans will give us peace and their money for Republic. I assume we could next get an alliance for another tech. Monotheism, obviously.

As for the Korean gold, we could just buy it. Even if we continued paying until the alliances expire, it would be well worth it. BTW, the pile has been growing all through my turns. It might also be a good idea to wait a bit. Wang doesn't know anyone on the other continent and isn't likely to either. I don't know how this works. The only connection between JICK and the other continent is Toko-Ragnar. Can Wang find out about us backstabbing a country he's never heard of?

 

[Andronicus]

Home continent

Much though tactically I would like to have Russia aiding our fight against JICK, I agree logistically it isnt practicle.
Looking carefully at the map and it is apparent that the stronger JICK members (China, India and Japan have 20 productive towns in the SE) would find us the closer target and direct troops at us anyway.
So, going back to previous plan of wiping out AERO first, there appears to be 2 naturally defendable fronts which we could get to after taking over AERO.
Eliminating Russia leaves us with only a few Korean towns to capture in the first JICK attack and we have the blue front secure. The pink front would be even narrower and requires only a sneak attack on Tsingtao.
From this position our veterans of the AERO war would simply progress the blue front whilst new units would hold then advance the pink front,
This approach makes best use of logistics.
To this aim I suggest bringing all trebs to Hangchow now so they can be of assistance when war breaks out there (thinking particuarly of taking hp's off vet samuris and WEs).

 

[Andronicus]

I think it's time to backstab. My proposition.

Joan will give us peace + Invention for 50 gpt. This will solve the situation at Leipzig. As I said, we only need one turn. Get the Viking gold at the same time. Next turn, we can demand that Otto leave (or anyone else who might be on our land - there are French and Viking troops in the area too). If he won't, just declare if we have to.


The Americans will give us peace and their money for Republic. I assume we could next get an alliance for another tech. Monotheism, obviously.

As for the Korean gold, we could just buy it. Even if we continued paying until the alliances expire, it would be well worth it. BTW, the pile has been growing all through my turns. It might also be a good idea to wait a bit. Wang doesn't know anyone on the other continent and isn't likely to either. I don't know how this works. The only connection between JICK and the other continent is Toko-Ragnar. Can Wang find out about us backstabbing a country he's never heard of?

Word gets around

I think peace with France for invetion giving gpt, then peace with America, then dow Germany (breaking our rep for peace treaty) amd MA America v Germany via mono.
Then attack Berlin cancelling our gpt payments (perhaps after a turn to give time for units to heal and French units to move away)

 

[Andronicus]

whats up? we're at the bottom of list for the second time!

I've some time if you want a swap Paul (and have just got a new computer I want to try out ) although if you are playing soon I'm happy to wait

 

[Paul#42]

Sorry guys, I had miscalculated the Cotm submission deadline so I played Cotm 29 yesterday evening till my first (and last) 100k attempt was in the box finally... :suicide:

I did not play yet. If you want, we can swap and you take your turns today. Sorry, I should have offered earlier.

 

[Andronicus]

I played Cotm 29 yesterday evening till my first (and last) 100k attempt was in the box finally... :suicide:

You're a braver man than I

I did not play yet. If you want, we can swap and you take your turns today. Sorry, I should have offered earlier.

Ok then I'll take it, ta.

 

[Andronicus]

Quick update - still on pre turn

Did this deal

Then peace wth America paying them 40g

France and Scandinavia both have gunpowder, so do Russia, Japan, Ottomen, Chinese and Korea (only Indians lack on our continent)

Vikings will sell guns for 61gpt (Russia 42gpt if include peace - not on the agenda)
China will give 6gpt +37g for ivory
Korea will give 390g for iron
- any reason not to do these
Plan would be to dow Germany next turn stopping gpt payments to France and Scandinavia, ally America getting their gold and giving mono (or rep?)

Will play on in morning

Another question - settler from abandoned desert gaots - whats the plan?. I can see 1SW gives stronger position but 1NW increases number of tiles for domnation purposes. Or do we settler somewhere different (and allow AI to land there).

 

[Paul#42]

Did this deal

fine.

Vikings will sell guns for 61gpt

fine, do it. We need to know where the salt is.

China will give 6gpt +37g for ivory
Korea will give 390g for iron

Traderoutes are save? I think so, so do it. Korea with three towns is not a thread in the long run.
Only downside is we are bound for another 20 turns compared to the current 8.
But I think we want to go for the other continent after finishing AERO anyway. So do it.
We can also sell another (unexploited) source - what do the others offer?

Plan would be to dow Germany next turn stopping gpt payments to France and Scandinavia, ally America getting their gold and giving mono (or rep?)

Rather Rep.

Another question - settler from abandoned desert gaots - whats the plan?. I can see 1SW gives stronger position but 1NW increases number of tiles for domnation purposes. Or do we settler somewhere different (and allow AI to land there).

I don't like AI settling in the heart of our land. However the land is ugly. I'm torn - 60% settling NW (RCP 8, lowers corruption for Hlobane and Tugela) and 40% moving to Egypt.

 

[Abegweit]

Do all the deals. We can break them if we want. Get the Viking money in the process.

Settle sw. Since we have the ToA. it's the same for dom and better location.

What about getting our hands on Korean cash?

 

[Paul#42]

Settle sw. Since we have the ToA. it's the same for dom and better location.

I see no advantage of sw, I'd rather settle nw with small but noticable effect on corruption in two towns.

What about getting our hands on Korean cash?

With what? As they already know gunpowder (as you realized ) we have little to offer. gpt does not make too much sense - unless we desperately need money quickly or plan to fight JICK soon (or expect them to dow us).

 

[Abegweit]

After looking at more closely, I would say that Egypt is the better option. There are no good locations in the Zulu country. Once we get close to the dom limit, we can fill in the peninsula.

As for the cash, certainly pay gpt. There is no way that the deal will last 20 turns. Do the French, Chinese Viking deals this turn. Then Korean gpt for cash next and American alliance next.

 

[Paul#42]

After looking at more closely, I would say that Egypt is the better option. There are no good locations in the Zulu country. Once we get close to the dom limit, we can fill in the peninsula.

okay for me.

As for the cash, certainly pay gpt. There is no way that the deal will last 20 turns. Do the French, Chinese Viking deals this turn. Then Korean gpt for cash next and American alliance next.

Do you think we attack or get attacked?
Maybe chemistry is around already
We should check before signing the Korea-deal.

 

[Abegweit]

Do you think we attack or get attacked?

I expect that Andro should pretty much finish off the AERO group - and I don't expect to get attacked before the Japan deal is finished.

Maybe chemistry is around already
We should check before signing the Korea-deal.

I was surprised to find that guns were out there, but the AI places high priority on it. It doesn't like chemistry at all.

 

[Abegweit]

Do you think we attack or get attacked?

I expect that Andro should pretty much finish off the AERO group - and I don't expect to get attacked before the Japan deal is finished.

Maybe chemistry is around already
We should check before signing the Korea-deal.

I was surprised to find that guns were out there, but the AI places high priority on it. It doesn't like chemistry at all. But we should certainly check.

 

[Paul#42]

@Abegweit: you are trembling?

 

[Andronicus]

OK, sending settler to Egypt and get slaves from any landings
Will do deals to get guns and as much gold as poss, breaking rep when dow Germany following turn - this will therefore be our last chance to trade gpt for cash.
Will do the trades iron to Korea and ivory to China - will not be for many turns so get what we can whilst they still willing to trade - will not leave Korea hoading lots of cash

 

[Andronicus]

Pre turn
@ Damascus vKn d A spear (4/4), vAC d A spear promotes(3/6) [2-0]
Near Leipzig 4/13Kn army d G archer (4/13) [3-0]
Peace with France plus Invention for 50gpt
France, Vikings, Russia, Japan, Ottomen, China, India, Korea have guns
Peace with America paying 40g
Trade Scandinavia 197g + gunpowder for 74gpt
Trade China 6gpt + 37g for ivory
Trade India 44g for 3gpt
Trade Korea 807g for iron + 27gpt (would accept iron, salt + 16gpt, but I dont want to give them muskets and gpt payments wont last too long)
Settler from desert goats send to Germany (have lots of settlers coming in Egypt and ToA will help fill in gaps, but other continent going to require setters)
Apart from America we have almost all the world's gold
Zimbabwe -> duct, shortrush via knight for 2 turns
Ulundi - sell granary (keep it size 6 producing knights from here on in)
Shortrush knights in Ulundi and Bapedi

IT
Samuri appear ( no WE yet, but Gandhi has Chivalry)
FGS troops withdraw from Leipzig
Build knights in Ulundi, Bapedi and Hlobane
Build settlers in Intombe and Isipezi
Vikes bulding Sistine

Turn 1) 460AD
@ Damascus
eMDI d A archer -> capture [4-0]
@ Mecca
MDI l 5/5sp (2/5),MDI d 3/3spear (3/4),at least 3 units remain - wait [5-1]
Vikes now have American money, buy 58g from France for 4gpt, 159g from Vikes for 11gpt, 121g from Korea for 8gpt, 15g from China for 1gpt.
Note Ottomen prepared to give us Pusan for peace - may be worthwhile getting false peace to obtain immed prior to eliminating them - downside is ends our MA with JICK
Dow Germany (breaking peace treaty - there goes our rep)
83g gets embassy with America

2/4kn d G archer -> triggers French and Viking MPP cancelling over 100gpt in payments
America will only MA v one of FGS block for either tech -> MA v Vikings for Republic

Shortrush knight in Ngome

IT
Ottomen and Arabs dow Chinese
3/5kn d G horse [6-1]
Undefended treb captured by French and move adj Berlin.
England dow Vikings, Germans dow English, French dow English
Thebes -> settler (now on 4 turn SF)
Zimbabwe duct -> knight
Knight builds in Mpondo, Ngome, Ibab
Korea has 166g again ???

Turn 2 470AD
@ Antalya
trebs and cat remove 1hp from 3 spears - still 3/3 on top
ekn d spear(3/5), ekn d 2/3sp (3/5), kn d 2/3sp (4/4) [9-1]
@ Izmit
MD d sp (1/4), *kn d spear (4/5), ehorse d archer (4/5) -> capture with cat [12-1]
@ Iznik
eMDI d spear (4/5), kn retreats spear (2/3), kn d spear (promotes 3/5), ehorse d 2/3sp (1/5) - archer remains [15-1]
Near Leipzig
ekn retreats v V spear (2/3), ekn d V 2/3sp, ekn d F archer, recapture treb [17-1]
Trade Korea 166g for 11gpt
Shortrush knights at Ulundi and Bapedi

IT
Japanese sneak attack

- capture Alexandria (8g), also unescorted settler and worker stack 4 slaves
Japs attack our stack next to Mecca; MDI d J MDI (1/4), MD d J sword (1/4) [19-1]
Near Leipzig eknight d G horse (5/5) [20-1]

Turn 3 480AD
@ Antalya
2 trebs and cat go 0/3, knight d spear (3/4), knight retreats spear (2/3), 3/5knight d 2/3spear -> capture + treb [22-1]
@ Najran
3 trebs hit, MDI d 2/3 spear (2/4), MDI d 1/3 spear (promotes 5/5) -> capture [24-1]
@ Iznik
Treb misses, ekn d spear, archer remains [25-1]

I save here

Thoughts anyone?
We will suffer further losses (Giza to Chinese).
We could get Pusan in peace deal with Ottomen and gift to say Americans.
We could then get rop with Arabs allowing our units to get to Japanese units.
Also option of MA Russians v JICK.
Other option to get Pusan then immed redeclare (had been my plan till this happened) eliminating Ottomen and hence flip risk.
Ottomen have only 1 archer and the units in Pusan remaining.

We need to clear out units from south and west of Arab lands and hold Hangchow region.
I plan on rushing reg LBs in towns near Hangchow meawhile sending new knights to Hangchow.
Pillaging Japanese iron will occur straight away.

German front holding well since French and Viking forces withdrew - Berlin and Konisberg should both fall soon giving us the peninsula.

The Save - to be continued after discussion

edit - thinking about it further I feel it would be best to capture Iznik (probably this turn using 3/5 knight), and immed take peace with AERO for best avail deal, then allying them v JICK. This risks Ottomen cities flipping back, but we would retake once the stuation with JICK has stabalised. Arabs and Russians would be slight buffer to JICK and rop would allow us to get our main forces there sooner. A small force would remain in ex Egypt-Otto lands to cope with landings and quickly deal with flips once we war AERO agin (including slow moving trebs and MDI). All new knights need to go to fight in Hangchow region, hopefully doing some damage to JICK there. I'll give you all a little while yet to comment.

 

[markh]

I have no access to the file now (at work), but from the pic above I see that the Ottomans have 3 or 4 towns left ?. Just judging by that I would favor the peace deal with AERO allying them against JICK until situation at China stabilizes.