SGOTM 11 - Team Newbie

So here are the interesting things that happened to me and by me:

- I changed the city governor to emphasise food everywhere apart from our peninsula.

- We still have the 9-worker gang on our iron source. I usually run this hooked over the interturn and disconnect then reconnect during the main turn. Any city which is currently set to build musket is one I would change to do a horse.

- One city is set to do explorer. I was thinking to build impi there, just to burn up a citizen, before starting a settler; the town gets better dom tile coverage by moving 1 tile south. Remember that if a town finishes reaches 30 shields on a settler and has no food surplus it gets the option to disband into a settler even if it is only size 1.

- We have a six-slave gang doing disconnect/reconnect on our saltpeter. In fact, our saltpeter is underneath Delhi, which we can't disband because it houses the Gardens. So we are unhooking the only road into town instead - again, it is best hooked during the interturn and unhooked during the main turn, not least becasue that way Delhi gets to enjoy our luxury resources, without which it would riot. At the moment we don't actually build anything
that uses saltpeter of course, but when we get Mil Trad, this will be the most important tile in our empire. :)

- At the start of the turnset, there was a Russian mace about to take Ngome from a horse. Rather than try to defend it, I gave it to India and bought them in against Russia. When an AI founds its capital it gets a load of free units. This is true even if it is refounding after a narrow escape from conquest, so I hoped that India (at the time a boat people) would get those units if I gave them a town to be their capital. Well, this turns out not be the case; the town fell to the single Russian mace.

- I attacked Russia mainly with the three armies that Bucephalus used to plough through the Ottomans. Without a saltpeter of their own, they didn't put up much of a fight. I got a leader in this campaign. Wardancer convinced me not to build Pentagon, so there is an empty army standing in Medina. Don't put anything into it until we get cavalries. Even then, just put one cav in so it gets to move quickly, and only fill it once it reaches Beta.

- There were three AI landing parties in our Oriental provinces; knight stacks from England and France, which kept me frantically rushing units around, and one very ineffectual longbow from America. Even with the ability to quickly rush units anywhere in our empire, we will have to leave some counterattackers stationed around Alpha - once the AI starts picking off towns, they can spread quickly through our tight town placement. They rushed spears very quickly too. It seemed like more than one per turn, although I suppose it is just that trick of the turn order that always seems to give the AI the edge on rushing defenders. Oh and they never autorazed any of our towns, even though a couple of their captures were pop:1 culture:0.

- Expelling the French invaders brought us war with the other Europeans. Otto had a 100g treasury which I forgot to buy from him before triggering the war. Doh.
Of course we had been at war with France for a long time, so I was relying on Joan to talk peace to save us from the berserks. She came to the table in 720ad (about 8 turns of war?) and wanted serious payment for peace. Our world map was of course very valuable, so I used that to buy her off. Since then I have happily traded w map for chump change with everybody. We are also selling luxuries to Joan for gpt.

- War with Egypt was a more painful affair than war with Russia, as they had cities on hills, and saltpeter coming out of their ears. I wanted to use ROP rape, but had rashly killed off their last pact buddy. So I gave Cleo peace and ROP (and got Navi too - Cleo charged us gpt at a fair rate!), and tied the deal to war with Korea, who we could kill at any time, to trigger the war without trashing our ROP rep.

- Ragnar spoiled this party by berserking the Koreans. He now has a town on Beta. :(
Luckily he is after Cleo in the turn order, so our units in Egyptian territory did not get attacked. Despite not being ready for the ROP rape, I pressed the attack and reduced Egypt to a single town with about 10 zulu knights sat outside. They also have a galley off our southwest coast. We have two caravels in striking range (one whipped at some expense during the interturn) with two more that can reach the turn after.

- And so to our current state. We are at war with India, England and America. Abe will talk peace, but there seems no immediate need to give it to him. We have two civs at our mercy; units are ready to finish off Egypt, and the last Indian is moored off Russian coast. We have two cannon nearby who redlined it, and a caravel further out to sea, fog-busting while we wait for the right moment to finish off Gandhi.

I strongly recommend that we finish off Cleo immediately, even if we can't get an interesting deal in the process. Egyptian towns have a high flip risk, and we are getting moderate war weariness from this conflict. Otto and Ragnar don't have Navigation, so perhaps we could use Cleo's death to sell Navi and luxuries to those guys at full price. Our empire maxes out at around 500gpt. Of course, with about 100 towns, switching everyone to tax is an extremely laborious process!

Then we leave Gandhi alive for the last great per-turn scam; war with India + gpt in exchange for Mil Trad. Helpfully, he doesn't seem inclined to shift that galley. Almost makes me wonder if that isn't the ship with the settler... but even if it isn't, we can still write off our debt by using an MPP trigger.
 
And another thing!
If we want to keep Gandhi for a Mil Trad deal, we may need to protect him from the other AIs. Without checking the game I'm not sure, but I would guess he is still at war with the Europens, so there is certainly a risk of 'losing' him the way we lost the Koreans. There is a small armada of caravels heading anticlockwise around Alpha, who could surround him for safety's sake.

So what does the next turnset hold, apart from finishing off Egypt, building a huge fleet of caravels, and waiting for Mil Trad? We can begin setting up the ROP rape of our first victim(s) perhaps. Now that we have a full world map, we can see the territory/resource distribution on Beta. France and England are the largest civs, and Germany the smallest. There are plenty of horses over there, but the other strategic resources don't seem numerous enough to go around everyone, which is very promising. We've never actually set foot on Beta, so we haven't seen what units they are fielding, but I wouldn't be surprised if some people (America) are still using pikes, or maybe even spears.

So...
France: will have defense 5 muskets. :aargh: Let's try not to fight them.
England: strong, but their only ally is a weed. A possible target.
America: a good target. Possibly the easiest to fight, but we'd have England on our flank. America is hard to reach from our core, and it may be slower to get a fleet assembled on our east coast.
Scandinavia: begging to be killed quickly so that we don't have to face berserks. The Vikings have no land border with the French or Germans, so we would be safer from their pact buddies' reprisals, especially if we bought England in to help us.
Germany: small and close to our core. Still a strong target so that we can defend against the risk of Nationalism entering the game. Also has only a relatively small, defensible border with France.

I still think Germany is a good place to start, but maybe we can even do Germany and Scandinavia at the same time? :eek: However, that would entail breaking a resource trade with Joan to use her as a trigger.

What units do we go in with? If Mil Trad doesn't appear in the next couple of turns, I guess we must think about shipping knights. So that might constrain our choice of victim; attack whoever does not have muskets.
But there is one more moment of opportunity: there is a free tile on Beta! iirc, it is where the borders of America, England and Scandinvia meet. Let's try to get a town built there and whip a barracks. This would allow us to start shipping knights now, but still benefit from the upgrade to Mil Trad if it arrives before we are ready to attack.
 
Masterful!

I know TaxPayer is pretty busy at the moment. Does he have time to play this turnset or can I play now?
 
Mm, not sure. He did say he prefers playing weeknights to weekends, but I would have hoped he would post a gotit if he downloaded the save, and I don't think he has internet access at home.
I might see if I can get in touch with him on the RealLifeOPhone. Now how do I work these things again? :confused:
 
Success! Apparently, I have to press these little numbered keys in the correct sequence, and then his voice comes out of the speaker. Technology eh? Who'd live without it? :crazyeye:

So the answer is: no Taxpayer hasn't got it, and won't have time to do a turnset between now and the weekend, so please go ahead and play this one.
 
Great :)

Just another 10 minutes staring at the territory graph and then I'll download :)
 
All hail PaperBeetle, and his all-powerful brain! How's progress Wardancer?
 
I think I might start writing a spoiler if that's OK with the rest of the team? But before I do I'd just like to get your views on how much of our strategy we should give away (personally I'm in favour of exposing the full extent of our ruthless cunning). Here's a few things I can think of off the top of my head:

1) The irrigated cow gambit
2) The choke-point wars
3) The pseudo ROP rapes
4) The gpt tech deals + war on an ally for immediate cancellation
5) The choice of Feudalism
6) Disconnect/reconnect of our iron
7) My ploy to put the settler pump out of kilter every time I play!

I suppose if anyone feels really strongly about revealing our plans we can hold-off posting the spoiler until we're finished and victory is ensured!

Also can someone explain to me how to insert thumbnail pictures into posts?
 
I would only expose number 7 ;-)

I'm fine with exposing all but I'd rather wait with posting (you can already start writing and we'll discuss it here). Exposing our tricks could help those teams that haven't thought of it before as they still can be applied in the late game to rush the game.
Only when we are sure not to help them enough to overtake us. Especially I'd like to see the way the 50AD teams go. If they went full research they might have Gunpowder pretty soon so they could still overtake us.
 
Yes, in the spirit of the GotM, we should be totally open about all our strategic choices, but in the spirit of trying for the laurels, there's no rush to post the spoiler. :)

The X-Nuts spoiler was relatively conservative. They didn't discuss any of the more complex implications of the MPPs, and it looks like they may not have used them to break gpt deals (as Bucephalus posited earlier). Is this because they didn't think of it? Or they felt it would be immoral? Or they expected an unwanted in-game consequence, i.e. an insurmountable rep hit?

They did also water the moo, I notice, and disbanded the aqueduct town once the irrigation was done. And of course, they agreed with our analysis that the Orientals were the more pressing first target.

Re: images...
I think the thumbnail image happens when you post using the "go advanced" option, and you add the image with "manage attachments". These thumbnails always go at the bottom of the post, after the text.
The in-line image is done using the "upload file" option from the menu bar at the bottom of each forum page, and can be positioned where you like in the post becasue you are using [img]http:/etc[/img] tags.
 
I think it is not important to spoil or not, each team has elite player who will think of this; of course belated is always better.
I guess all those team which territory is behind us maybe fall into these 3 class:
1.they are too honorable to constitute a more rigid rule than SGOTM rule by administrator.
2.their team has truly newbies to do substaintial damage on their progress.
3.they have bad luck.such as, AI on alpha trade madly, when their horseman or sword move out the chockpoint to see pikeman everyway, and when their knight arrived just to find musket.
 
Turns completed - territory graph no longer looking so good! Have you guys seen Team Shaka's latest save - ouch!

Here is my save.
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm11/Team_Newbie_SG011_AD0850_01.SAV

Brief summary
The turnset went ok but I am finding it sloooooow going. The highlights are

i) Mil trad was discovered by the Vikings on turn 2 of the turnset. We scammed it off them and sold it on to the English and Americans - both abusing the tech trick and trashing our rep in the process (see "detailed" write up for details). As well as Mil Trad we also got about 600 gold, 150 gpt and economics out of these deals.

ii) We did pretty hard core whipping, forest chopping and disconnecting resources to make a large cavalry army. We currently have approximately 110. Which I am currently shipping over. Note that the micro takes a long time at the moment if done properly.

iii) I have set temple builds going in all the Alpha continent towns that they are needed.

iv) I made a bit of a cock up at the start when I killed Egypt with out using the tech trick to sell Nav to those that didn't have it. I did mean to use it BUT I was worried that I might not be able to take the last town with the forces I had so I attacked with the first two Knights before buying in the allies. Unfortunately, both Knights won and the town only had two defenders. :(

Note
Despite all the deals that were broken most people will still sell things to us for GPT. Before we go to war we should buy all cash from our victim and his allies using GPT. We need all the cash we can get to upgrade horse to cav.


Detailed notes
750AD

Have a crack at Biblos........

10 Knights vs x Muskets

1 Knight kills musket
1 Knigjht kills musket

oops :(

Egypt dead........


770 AD

Peace called with America and UK for 3gpt`(to us).
Get embassy with UK
Sell 4 lux to UK for 20 gpt
4 Lux, 805 gpt, saltpeter +277gold to Ragnar for Mil trad
ROP + 15gpt from Bismark for ROP + furs
Pillage Saltpeter to end deal with Ragnar (rep hit)
ROP from Ragnar for 2 lux
321 gold plus alliance vs India from Liz for ivory plus 412 gpt.
Ally Abe against India for 300 gpt and iron
ROP + 66gpt from Abe for MT and 4 lux
Mil trad`+ 7 gold to Liz for 46 gpt
Buy in Bismark vs India for 50gpt
Sell Bismark 2 lux for 11 gpt.

Caravel attacks Indian Galley and sinks it - India dead (along with our rep)

Re-hook saltpeter
Buy economics and 693 gold from Ragnar for 943 gpt, saltpeter, ivory and wines.
Pillage saltpeter

Overall we end up with`MT, economics, 160gpt, 650 gold for our rep and a few lux.

780 AD
Sell ROP and ivory to UK for 12 gpt

800 AD
Peace rules the beta once more.

840 AD
The best country in the world learn physics and sell it to the French and Vikings for much GPT.
 
110 Cavs. Wow, that could already be enough to take the whole continent in ne turn, ok...that's a little bit overestimated.
But if we can get a ROP with our first victim we might kill him in one turn, even not the smallest one.
Looks good.. can next one prepare some settlers for gap filling? That would be fine.
 
The English have muskets and the French have musketeers, but the other three civs should be easy kills, and would give us enough land to hit dom, provided we found an extra 20 towns or so over there, to fill in the gaps. I am working on a dotmap proposal.
 
There are some settlers either built or in the pipeline but it will take a while to move them over.

We can also build settlers out of the towns we capture on the beta quite quickly either using whipping (after resistance is stopped) or by disbanding units.

As PaperBeetle indicates what I had in mind was ROP RAPE of Germany (pikes)and Scandinavia (pikes) and then America (spears) and the UK (muskets).
 
Btw, we already have ROPS with Germany, Scandinavia, America and England. I didn't get a ROP with France as I don't think we want to mess around with those Musketeers.

There is a certain amount of disagreement between myself and PaperBeetle in terms of how to ROP Rape the various civs. I prefer breaking ROP once we can substantially kill them in 1 turn and then spend the next 2-3 turns mopping up PaperBeetle prefers one shot kills.

Now there are obvious advantages to killing someone outright in one turn (fast crushing of resistance, no flip risk, no counter attacks e.t.c.). However, to my way of thinking it takes much longer to set up. Now I suppose it really comes down to how good you are at logistics as to how much longer this takes as to which is better.

This probably also explains why PaperBeetle and myself favour the different approaches!
 
Something that PaperBeetle has pointed out....

Team Shaka and Smurks' spurt is partially explainable by the fact that they have both recently acquired the TOA (according to the culture graph).

Their recent growth is still a little concerning but must be looked at in the context that they are getting free expansions. They will also only get these expansions on the Alpha.
 
I think that, coupled with filling in all the gaps on Alpha, we could dom like this:
Team_Newbie_SG011_Beta_850ad_dotmap.JPG


Black squares are towns that we capture, black dots are extra towns that we need to settle. There are also a couple of optional towns marked with small black dots, for which I didn't add the territory - they are towns which get less than 5 tiles, but might be worth founding if we have settlers to spare.
Basically, if we could whip 1 settler from each captured town, we would have enough to get these towns founded. Of course, we may be able to get these towns founded faster by bringing the settlers from Alpha - all depends on logistics.
 
Got save. Will start playing tonight. All I need now is an idiot's guide as to what I should be doing...
 
who do we start,viking, american or Germany?
or do we have enough cav to eliminate them at the same turn?
 
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