SGOTM 12 - klarius

[Wotan]

OK, got it. Will hopefully play later today if we are in agreement on what to do.

1. Are we still treating all science AI with silk gloves? If so all should be traded/given techs so they can help us research RP. Germans are probably the only one to give us any real money for the techs.
2. War is imminent vs. Inca. What is next? Mop up the north by removing Rome and Portugese?
3. Get IW in Constantinople.
4. Produce a group of Workers to help rail our lands.
5. Caravels to Galleons? Any reason we still have Caravels and have not upgraded them?
6. Industrialization.
7. America was high on the list of targets, I now see little activity towards adding them to the list of "former" tribes? The forces are barely there to take them on. Or is it the understanding they should fall using MI and The two "ancient" armies on hand? It is 12 turns until peace war can be restarted, I know. just consider this a point to discuss.

 

[Northern Pike]

2. The Portuguese, certainly. Disposing of them and the Incas will occupy us for a while. After that I suppose the Romans are the logical choice, although they'll have a lot of units after spending all history alone on an island. Getting rid of the Koreans and Spanish while we're operating on the Inca island is tempting--it depends on whether we're willing to eliminate even one scientific civ.

4. Paris and the capital are at size twelve with full food boxes, so that'll be two easy workers.

7. Washington is an unpleasant objective (a capital on a hill), and we should probably wait for more advanced units before renewing that war. I would definitely move units from the American island to strengthen our offensive in Incaland, including the armies, in galleons.

Otherwise, that sounds good.

 

[Wotan]

A bit silent I guess. So I will play with the comments from me and NP as a basis. Hopefully finish my turnset tonight.

 

[klarius]

Ok, a few thoughts:
We need to give out electricity (and nationalism) to several tribes now, if we want them to research RP for us. Everybody is stuck on 50 turns research as far as we can tell and we don't know who is even still on optional MA techs.

I would like to research sanitation first. Our best cities need hospitals, if we want to increase our research. factories are not that important.

Capturing some more cities will not do that much short term. These cities need to be developed then first and increase corruption in other cities (like Orleans). Still we want more cities in the end. But we shouldn't expect to take many cities fast. We still only have knights and everybody except England has at least lots of pikes.

 

[Wotan]

Have played until industrialization.

Turn log


0 – 610AD Preflight
Switch to Sanitation. Made sure everyone scientific has electricity. Lost my notes for the first few turns but we are in GA. War with Inca

1 - 620AD

2 – 630AD
Lost two knight taking Delhi.

3 – 640AD
4 – 650AD
Back to keeping track.
We have Sanitation, Industrialisation next.
A Rifleman finish in Constantinople and is rushed to Delhi. Will build a second to follow the first, lots of Inca units moving on Delhi.
Trade Banking for Printing press from Rome.
Killed two Pikes and a Spearman, no losses.

5 – 660AD
Inca is asking for peace, no-no-no.

6 – 670AD
Sunk an Incan Galley.

IBT: Celts and America sign a peace treaty.

7 – 680AD
Two Incans die.

8 – 690AD

9 – 700AD
Killed another Incan Pike.

I must have done a dozen Elite attacks during my turn set and not a single leader.

10 – 710AD
Nothing really exciting.

11 – 720AD
Industrialisation researched. Have set research to The Corporation but Communism might be an alternative??? So stop here for discussions.


After action report.

Time to start a new tech research.

Have reinforced Delhi so the next player should be able to start the offensive again. The river of Incan units have started to ebb now. Last turn a small stack with Knight/MI/Pike made it to the gates of Delhi. The steady stream of Incans made any offensive attempts a bit futile.

Workers railing our lands.

Hospitals built or being built but maybe we should let Factories finish first in cities with still not finished Hospitals?

EDIT: Noticed in my notes I have been pretty sloppy with notes on Incan losses. They attacked each turn with umpteen units... In the first few turns 5+ attacks each turn.

 

[Northern Pike]

I'm glad we've gotten started against the Incas, and thinned out their army. I think we have too much strength sitting around in the Bergen area when we aren't at war there, though. I'd still ship both armies to Incaland.

 

[klarius]

I think we need more workers now to merge to big cities. I would like Teotihuacan (switch to market at a loss of some shields now), Tatu and Bergen to build workers.

Short rush (explorer) in Delhi to get rid of an Incan. Switch Paris to factory.

Generally I think we should MM more towards commerce, where it's not important that the builds complete fast.

I'm not sure about wars. The Incan land doesn't get us much and is difficult to reach. Currently the next Portuguese city would be more useful.
I also think we should think about America again. We should still have war happiness with them.

When it's decided what wars to pursue for the next turns, we should again do alliances with gpt and sell techs, so we get the chance to get some more out of the AIs later. Note we can now sell contacts, so we can ally everybody if we want.

I think we should also give out nationalism to the sci AIs. There are only 2 with electricity and nationalism currently. I'm not sure that these are really doing RP now.

Communism is too late to give enough return IMO. Corporation is ok as well as sci method. Both isn't needed urgently so doesn't really matter what first.

 

[Northern Pike]

Mighty Dwaarf, are you there? According to the last roster posted, you're up.

 

[Mighty Dwaarf]

Guys

I'm pretty snowed under over the next few days so feel free to skip me on this rotation.

 

[Northern Pike]

OK, I've got it then.

I'll make sure all the scientific civs have Electricity and Nationalism.

It's true that the nearest Portuguese city would do us more good than anything the Incas have, but I'd hate to waste Wotan's work wearing the Incas down, and start from scratch with Portugal's flood of units. So I think I'll continue against the Incas, allying the Portuguese and the Ottomans against them, unless there's strong objection.

When it's decided what wars to pursue for the next turns, we should again do alliances with gpt and sell techs, so we get the chance to get some more out of the AIs later.

You seem to have something in mind here that hasn't been fully explained. Are you saying that it's better to go through the process of sending out gpt and then getting it back than just to give techs directly for alliances plus whatever pennies the other civ has?

 

[klarius]

OK, I've got it then.
You seem to have something in mind here that hasn't been fully explained. Are you saying that it's better to go through the process of sending out gpt and then getting it back than just to give techs directly for alliances plus whatever pennies the other civ has?

The idea is that AIs frequently break alliances, before the 20 turns are over. Especially if one does several alliances together for gpt, one does get frequently out of the alliance gpt payment, but still gets the gpt for the sold tech.

 

[Wotan]

All Science AI have Electricity. When starting to move from Delhi, there are a few Workers (Slaves) sitting there that could start roading/railing when the lands are safe again.

 

[klarius]

All Science AI have Electricity.

That doesn't help, if they don't have nationalism.
When they enter IA, they set the research to nationalism with a very high probability (if they aren't still on an optional MA tech). If they get nationalism as free tech or one gives it to them before giving electricity, they are likely to start an optional tech.
And they don't change the tech selection just by having other options. To "force" them to go to RP one has to give electricity and then have them complete a tech, either by themselves or by gifting them the tech they are researching. Self research is so low for the AI in this game that we cannot rely on that.

 

[Northern Pike]

The idea is that AIs frequently break alliances, before the 20 turns are over. Especially if one does several alliances together for gpt, one does get frequently out of the alliance gpt payment, but still gets the gpt for the sold tech.

Very crafty. I knew there'd be a devious and underhanded rationale.

I'm afraid that RL developments wiped out my opportunity to play on Saturday, so it'll be a day or two yet.

 

[Northern Pike]

820 AD, end of turn

 

[Northern Pike]

720 (0): We form alliances with eleven other civs, all against the Incas and the Celts combined, on Klarius's principle of sending out gpt and getting it back for techs. I stop the process when for some reason the Romans are only able to return 41 gpt of the 60 gpt we pay them, making me a bit uneasy about the scheme. In all we send out 650 gpt, and get about 90% of it back.

As part of this diplomatic offensive, we make sure all the scientific civs have Nationalism and Electricity. We'd previously overlooked Cathy in the distribution of Electricity.

An Inca knight redlines and retreats attacking Delhi.

Teotihuacan marketplace --> worker.


730 (1): We ship-chain our AC army to Delhi, after which we overwhelm the three Inca units (knight, swordsman, pikeman) in the area (3-0).

Ugh, the Incas have built a barricade on the peninsula we'll have to cross to reach their homeland. How often does the AI think of that?

The Celts land a horseman next to Orleans--and then our Korean allies land four units next to the horseman. Hmmm.

Teotihuacan, Ta-Tu, and Bergen are all producing workers.


740 (2): We approach the Inca barricade, trampling an MDI and a pikeman en route (5-0).

One of our frigates sinks attacking an Inca galley, even though I took the precaution of bombarding and yellowlining the galley last turn (5-1).

We cut down the Celtic horseman near Orleans (6-1).

Delhi harbour --> granary, Tenochtitlan hospital --> factory.

The Koreans land four more units in France, though they no longer have the excuse of the Celtic unit, so they’re clearly planning a stab.


750 (3): I cancel the now-dangerous RoP we have with the Koreans, but I’m still not allowed to give them a boot order.

Our MDI army storms the Inca barricade, fortunately held only by a pikeman (7-1).

Somebody’s frigate sinks one of our privateers (7-2). Why did we build ships anyone can attack?

The Koreans execute their predictable stab, and three of their MDI fall at the gates of Orleans (10-2).

One of our galleons repels the attack of a Korean galleon (11-2)

Paris factory --> bank, Karakorum university --> marketplace, Hattusas hospital --> factory, Constantinople IRON WORKS --> hospital, Osaka marketplace --> hospital


760 (4): We dispose of the remaining five Korean units in France—two LB, two spearmen, and a pikeman (16-2).

We ride down a barb warrior on Bergen’s peninsula (17-2).

We pillage the Incas’ barricade down to a fortress and move our armies next to Copan.

The Ottomans soften Copan up for us with units landed by sea.

Scientific Method --> Corporation.


770 (5): We seize Copan, held by two pikemen (19-2). We capture three workers.

Paris bank --> coal plant, Constantinople hospital --> factory.


780 (6): We barely manage to take the Inca capital of Cuzco, held only by three pikemen, but we lose our AC army in the assault (22-3). The army had fifteen HP and Cuzco isn’t a hill city, despite appearances, so the attack seemed reasonable. We capture two workers and a trebuchet.

The Babylonians take Tiwanaku and eliminate the Incas. All our alliances end, and we’re left about 600 gpt to the good for the next thirteen turns, in conformity with Klarius’s plan.

Kyoto hospital --> factory, Tarsus hospital --> factory.


790 (7): Paris coal plant --> rifleman.


800 (8): Delhi walls --> granary, Constantinople factory --> rifleman, Orleans factory --> coal plant.


810 (9): Our GA ends.

Thebes marketplace --> hospital, Cuzco library --> courthouse.


820 (10): We merged eight workers into Constantinople this round, five into Tenochtitlan, and three into Orleans. Paris didn’t receive any because it grows every two turns on its own.

Six elite victories this round, one of them defensive, didn’t generate a Great Leader.

 

[Northern Pike]

Since the end of the Inca war I’ve been moving units back to the Delhi area on the assumption that we’ll attack the Portuguese next, after making peace with the Koreans (they’ll talk) and combining that with an anti-Portuguese alliance. I think this is the right course, but we won’t have an easy campaign attacking mostly with knights, particularly since the Inca war didn’t last long enough after we brought the Portuguese into it for their forces to be drawn away from their homeland. I saw as many as twenty Portuguese units in the open at one time—ten pikemen, four knights, three MDI, two LB, and a musketman. We might want to begin the campaign by letting them batter against Delhi (which has walls), which would require more riflemen than the one we have there now.

We’re still at war with the Celts, so we can include them in all the anti-Portuguese alliances we make. Since the Portuguese war won’t be quick, we should probably wait a while before making alliances strictly for profit with civs other than Korea; that way the payoff period lasts longer, as we’ve seen in the Inca war.

Teotihuacan, Ta-Tu, and Bergen are all running as two-turn worker pumps now, but they have to be watched. Most or all of the new workers should be used for merges. We have enough workers on each of our major islands to rail one clear tile a turn, which is sufficient given that merging is more important at the moment.

Theory of Evolution will complete in Paris in six turns, after which I assume we’ll take Atomic Theory and Electronics as per orthodoxy. Among other factors, we need tanks as quickly as possible, since we don’t want to research MilTrad ourselves and we don’t know when the AI will produce it. But if there’s some arcane reason why we don’t want ToE yet, the build has just begun.

The galleons between Delhi and Copan are moving units back to the Delhi area, since the Portuguese are blocking the land route.

There’s a Celtic galley around Bergen which will probably land something.

We can build Battlefield Medicine whenever we want.

We’ll discover Corporation this interturn. Obviously, we don’t want to choose Replaceable Parts as long as we’re hoping the AI will research it for us.

 

[Northern Pike]

Inca roads:

 

[klarius]

But if there’s some arcane reason why we don’t want ToE yet, the build has just begun.

I cannot look into the save currently, but I doubt we can research a required tech within 5 turns (more like 7 or 8).
The ToE build should coincide with a tech researched, so we have to build something else first.

Looking at the roster :
klarius
TimBentley
Wotan
Mighty Dwaarf skipped
Ronald skipped
Northern Pike just played

Ronald or Mighty Dwaarf do any of you want to take the next set, or should I?

 

[Ronald]

klarius,

I can play the end of the week, so if you take this turn, I could take the next.

Ronald