SGOTM 12 - One Short Straw

[LowtherCastle]

Hmm...well, I've never done the demand before, but people have talked about it, including DanF and ZPV. But...I just tried it in your 325BC test save and it didn't work...dG refused to cough up the 1g. That means our only choice is pre-emptive DoW and worker capture.

Well, under THOSE circumstances, maybe you should play till Calendar or a favorable worker steall opportunity, whichever comes first. Right now, dG has a worker in the forest roading to the SW of Orleans. I suppose that worker is roading to Lyons. Something to keep in mind. Maybe our warrior could safely nab him about halfway there. You could look for a nice hill to plan the attack from...

 

[babybluepants]

Our diplo with DG is just awful and the demand success is dependent on it, I think. Doubt it would work.

 

[Mitchum]

I'll watch that worker as you suggest and stop if/when we have an opportunity to nab him.

 

[Mitchum]

OK, by bribe for 1g you meant to either demand or ask for 1g. Since we are not on good terms, it would be a demand and De Gaulle would never accept this when his power is quite a bit bigger than ours.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Evidently. No probs. I think we'll very soon have an opportunity for two workers. The Rheims worker has completed the road to Rheims and should come back to finish where you pillaged. The Lyons worker will move SW in 3t and will be a sitting duck.

 

[LowtherCastle]

I'm still a little slow... Are you saying that AIWarSuccess = 1 + War_Success where War_Success comes from EmperorFool's table?

Right. Each player has his own success which is summed and added to 1.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Guesses: AI builds

Paris
T94 sword
T96 warrior
T97 warrior

Orleans
T95 worker
T97 metal unit (partial)

Rheims/Lyons
T97 unit (partial)

Shanghai
T97 wonder 63h (partial)

 

[bcool]

Is it possible De Gaulle is drafting swords?

 

[LowtherCastle]

Is it possible De Gaulle is drafting swords?

Good point. We need to watch his city population. Although, I think he's been doing quite a bit of poprushing, so he's going to have some already.

 

[Mitchum]

OK I played. I will post a proper turn report shortly.

There is a chance to steal two separate workers right now with no archers in sight near them (but some will be in Rheims). De Gaulle does have an archer exploring east of GP Farm. We have one chariot in the area and another due out of Moscow next turn.

I finally got the missionary past Churchill (took a risk that an archer in a city would not capture him. All for not, really since he just learned Writing this turn. We should move that missionary west before we sign a DoP so that we can explore west.

Save will be uploaded in 2 minutes. Over and out. bcool is up!

Spoiler :

Here is your Session Turn Log from 450 BC to 375 BC:


Turn 98, 425 BC: Moscow will grow to size 6 on the next turn.
Turn 98, 425 BC: Churchill has founded Hastings in a distant land.

Turn 99, 400 BC: Moscow has grown to size 6.
Turn 99, 400 BC: Fish has become healthy.
Turn 99, 400 BC: The borders of Pigs are about to expand.
Turn 99, 400 BC: Siberia will grow to size 2 on the next turn.
Turn 99, 400 BC: Pigs will grow to size 2 on the next turn.
Turn 99, 400 BC: You have discovered Calendar!
Turn 99, 400 BC: The borders of Pigs have expanded!
Turn 99, 400 BC: Roosevelt has founded Atlanta in a distant land.
Turn 99, 400 BC: Mao Zedong converts to Confucianism!

Turn 100, 375 BC: Moscow can hurry Chariot for 1? with 20? overflow, 21? added to the treasury, and +1? for 10 turns.
Turn 100, 375 BC: Siberia has grown to size 2.
Turn 100, 375 BC: Pigs has grown to size 2.
Turn 100, 375 BC: Pigs can hurry Work Boat for 1? with 7? overflow and +1? for 10 turns.
Turn 100, 375 BC: Gandhi will trade Polytheism

Things to do: update test save (priority) and finish my turn report (secondary if I have time, otherwise later tonight).

 

[LowtherCastle]

Excellent play, Mitchum!!! Looking very good.

 

[Mitchum]

Here is the updated test save advanced to T100 (I have only made map changes within our BFCs, so everything else is as it was when I inherited the test save). I typically like to compare the food/hammers in every city to make sure that everything is just right. I have not had a chance to do that yet, but I've played through this turnset so many times with our test save that I could do it with one hand tied behind my back... as long as it wasn't my mouse hand...

 

[LowtherCastle]

On this map, the Colossus is just about as good as the Great LH. Especially since all non-Stalin AIs are within reach (no need for early Astro) and not overseas (trade routes not so good). Awesome!

 

[Mitchum]

I forgot to mention that Churchill went WHEOOHRN on T97. Full report later tonight. (from my phone, which is why I'm being so brief)

 

[bcool]

Got the save, will come up with a PPP plan by tomorrow morning in less than 16 hours.

Interesting that Mao picked up Confu.

Thanks for updating the test game Mitchum and nice work!

 

[Mitchum]

Highlights:

• Churchill actually went WHEOOHRN on T97, which I failed to notice, but it is there in the privious uploaded save and was not there on T96.
• Churchill finally learned Writing.
• We can now explore west with our missionary. Move him before signing DoP with Chuchill, which just became available. This will buy us 10 turns of peace.
• Now that Gandhi is one turn away from Theology, he will finally trade Polytheism.
• If we can avoid losing any units, we can steal 2 workers on the next turn and should be able to get a DoP with De Gaulle in 2 turns.
• Mao is Confused...

Details:

Spoiler :

T98
Mao -6
Church +6

T99
Churchill founds Hastings
Churchill learns Agriculture
Mao +6
Roos +6
DeG +8
Church +17

T100
Mao converts to Confucianism
Roosevelt founded Atlanta
Churchill learns Writing
De Gaulle learns Polytheism
Roosevelt learns Mediation
Mao learns Polytheism
Roos +28
Mao +6
DeG +8
Church +12

Sabotage:

Spoiler :

PARIS

      Building       Production
T97	393		  -
T98	393		 47
T99	393		 78
T100	393		  -

ORLEANS

      Building       Production
T97	414		132
T98	414		  -
T99	414		 66
T100	414		 99

RHEIMS

      Building       Production
T97	  -		110
T98	  -		136
T99	  -		161
T100	  -		187

TOURS

      Building       Production
T97	  -		 54
T98	  -		 72
T99	  -		 90
T100	  -		108

SHANGHI (MAO)

      Building       Production
T97	456		574
T98	459		  -
T99	459		100
T100	459		100

Relationship/Attitude Changes:

Spoiler :

T97: Mao meets Churchill: +1 Cautious
T97: Churchill meets Mao: +1 Cautious
T99: De Gaulle meets Churchill: +0 Annoyed
T99: Church meets De Gaulle: -1 (Annoyed)
T100: Roosevelt goes from Cautious to Annoyed toward De Gaulle, but the value is still +1??? I didn’t think that the attitude wouldn’t change if the value didn’t change.
T100: Mao goes from +2 to +3 toward Gandhi (Annoyed to Cautious)
T100: De Gaulle goes from +1 to +0 toward Mao (Pleased to Cautious)
T100: Gandhi goes from +3 to +4 toward Mao (still Cautious)

EDIT: When I advanced the test game, I wrote over the autosaves from the real game... I took decent notes and several screen shots each turn. Let me know if you need more information and I hope I have it... At least I have the autosaves from my previous turnset (T92 to T97).

 

[Mitchum]

On this map, the Colossus is just about as good as the Great LH. Especially since all non-Stalin AIs are within reach (no need for early Astro) and not overseas (trade routes not so good). Awesome!

I rarely build the Colossus because the only water tiles I work early in the game typically have a resource on them (e.g. lake, fish, crabs or clams). If I want commerce, I would rather mature a grass river cottage (2F, 2C) than work a coast tile (2F, 3C). Currently, two of our four cities have no water tiles and neither will GP Farm. The only way this will pay for itself is if we grow our cities really big, work a lot of coastal tiles and don't research Astronomy for a long time (which we can do for a short while, but not too long in this game). I don't see the big benefit in this game... but I didn't see the benefit of the GLH and trade routes until about 6 months ago either.

With that said, this will be a cheap wonder to build since we have copper. But I think of the opportunity cost of what else we could be building (e.g. workers, settlers, etc.).

 

[mdy]

If De Gaulle is preparing to attack us I agree that it it would be a good idea to launch a preemptive strike to capture his workers before making peace.

In the longer term I still favour the machinery beeline over the literature beeline as I think capturing De Gauules cities earlier will be more useful than an earlier Great Library.

With the requirement to build a forge before the Collosus I can't see how we can build it in the near future without sacrificing other more important requirements.

 

[LowtherCastle]

A Moment of Strategy

What's our basic strategy? Beeline SP? Then Mining+Sushi? If we're planning to conquer a lot of cities, it'll drain our economy. Either we have SP or chs everywhere, plus Versailles and FP. Paris doesn't appear to be a commerce powerhouse by any means. Orleans also not. We don't have a single cottage built. What's the plan?

I think now's the time to decide. Gandhi is likely to beeline Lit/GL next. He's got Bureau. He'll build it in a flash.

 

[bcool]

Basic Strategy
Beeline SP, then Mining&Sushi

Courthouses as soon as reasonably possible given war demands and development
value of the GL...
The GL has a big value ~4000 over 70 turns for 350 You don't get many builds that have that pay back. This assumes we are building the NE in Moscow and we are using the great people to bulb techs. It also assumes we are not getting a ton of great people from some other city.

Details in the spoiler.

Spoiler :

The Great Library costs 350 to build and gives us two great scientists.

It produces 6 raw from the great scientists and it produces 8 from the scientists and itself.

The 6 raw * some multiplier

* 1.75 (library, academy) for 20 turns let's estimate Then *2 (library, academy, university) for 50 turns until scientific method is researched

(6 raw * 1.75 * 20) + (6 raw * 2 * 50) = 810
8 raw * 2 /400 (assuming an average costs in per great person in Moscow is 400) *1200? for bulbing with great scientist = 48 equivalent per turn for ~70 turns 3360

total of 810 + :3360: science from bulbing with great scientists

Benefits
so a total of about 4170 from the Great Library
Costs
for a cost of 350 (really 140 raw hammers)
Other costs
slows down military production (same hammers could be 6 axe)
slows down expansion? (same hammers could almost be 3 settlers or 3.5 workers)
limits our ability to get a great engineer for Mining Inc.

This assumes we get great scientists and not prophets, engineers, etc. from Moscow.

Doesn't count the value of the 2 it produces after we research scientific method or the value of the culture produced.