SGOTM 12 - One Short Straw

Mitchum · Dec 1, 2010

babybluepants said:
It would be nice to keep it up, I think. I know it's getting quite painful to update, but I think I'd rather have a bunch of secondary cities off in hammers than not have a test at all. What do you think?

Agreed. I'm not overly concerned with hammers, food, exact worker actions and such. The test game will be very valuable in testing war plans, verifying espionage missions costs, understanding impacts of spreading corporations to all cities or just key ones, etc. IIRC, the Ducks had a very accurate test game in the last SGOTM all the way to the end. We did on Fifth Element as well.

LowtherCastle · Dec 1, 2010

babybluepants said:
It would be nice to keep it up, I think. I know it's getting quite painful to update, but I think I'd rather have a bunch of secondary cities off in hammers than not have a test at all. What do you think?

All rightee then...

Mitchum · Dec 1, 2010

LowtherCastle said:
I was thinking eventually we'll send a caravel or post-Astro workboat to see if he nukes it out of the water...

I was thinking the same thing. That would be a fairly "cheap" way to get him to expend all of his missiles!

BTW, I didn't think work boats could ever traverse ocean tiles not in our city's culture...

bcool · Dec 1, 2010

Another probably not useful idea that would mess up all of LC's plans

Move the capital maybe to Rheims (or some other city) (so the city chain for Rosey is shorter) We can settle a different Trojan city or St Nick city.

Yes we lose out on some benefits of Bureaucracy, but honestly Nationhood is almost as good since our Oxford city isn't that amazing. And we are going to want a lot of espionage in the next 20 plus turns.

We could even move the capital back or build the FP in Moscow.

Another idea LC can polish up and make something good perhaps

LowtherCastle · Dec 1, 2010

What are we going to attach our GG to? We want a super medic III, right? We could put it on the vhariot and upgrade to a knight and beyond. Faster moving that way. Or the 1/2XP axe and give it Woodsman III, then medic I, or what?

LowtherCastle · Dec 1, 2010

bcool said:
Another probably not useful idea that would mess up all of LC's plans

Move the capital maybe to Rheims (or some other city) (so the city chain for Rosey is shorter) We can settle a different Trojan city or St Nick city.

Yes we lose out on some benefits of Bureaucracy, but honestly Nationhood is almost as good since our Oxford city isn't that amazing. And we are going to want a lot of espionage in the next 20 plus turns.

We could even more the capital back or build the FP in Moscow.

Another idea LC can polish up and make something good perhaps

Well, if you look at my Palace/FP/Versailles dotmaps that I posted a few pages back, they had the capital in GP Farm.

babybluepants · Dec 1, 2010

Medic III, for sure.

Edit: xpost

bcool · Dec 1, 2010

Or the 1/2XP axe and give it Woodsman III, then medic I, or what?

If we go with a Woodsman III you need a unit with 6 xp already to get Woodsman III, CI and Medic I

So the axe wouldn't work. I'm fine either with the chariot medic III or upgrading the existing Medic mace to Woodsman III if he has 6 xp already.

bcool · Dec 1, 2010

Well, if you look at my Palace/FP/Versailles dotmaps that I posted a few pages back, they had the capital in GP Farm.

bah! a few pages! I had to go back to 108!

Beijing would make a nice capital perhaps eventually (espionage multiplier is nice, academy) Or Foreign Palace location instead of Hastings. (We would be able to build faster probably)

mdy · Dec 1, 2010

What are we going to attach our GG to? We want a super medic III, right? We could put it on the vhariot and upgrade to a knight and beyond. Faster moving that way. Or the 1/2XP axe and give it Woodsman III, then medic I, or what?

Don't we already have a medic 1 we can upgrade to a medic 3?

We could move the Place to Shanghai, we could build it there before we could build it in Beijing. With 2 forests to chop we could get the place built there fairly quickly if we tarted it now.

BTW, mdy, can you take the next turnset? LC will presumably finish first thing tmr.

Unfortunately I am likely to be away from Friday till Monday, so I can't.

babybluepants · Dec 1, 2010

mdy said:
Unfortunately I am likely to be away from Friday till Monday, so I can't.

Ok, that means I'm up again. :crazyeye:

LowtherCastle · Dec 1, 2010

Turnset finished. Save uploaded.

T175
Capture Beijing
Draft musket in Rheims for Lyons

IT
Roosy captures Xian!!!
Mao revolts to Buddhism!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

T176
We bulb SciMeth
We can now see into all of Mao's cities, except Xian for some odd reason... :mischief:

T177
Finish LIberalism and take Biology for free
Trade Gandhi Education for Optics + cash + maps

IT
CHurchill's SoD crosses border to Lyons

T178
Moscow pops a Prophet; Pigs next turn
Mao will talk
Turnset over

---------------

@bbp
1. There is a musket/axe pair you can send to Lyons. Churchill's SoD just crossed the border.
2. We have 1274 EPs on Mao now. More than enough, since he's out of COnfu. Just need to capture Guangzhou. Enjoy!

-----------

Here is your Session Turn Log from 1150 AD to 1180 AD:

Spoiler :

Mitchum · Dec 1, 2010

Nice work, LC!! It's good so see Roosevelt having some success as well.

Per this thread, our expected cost for Communism can be updated to:

Beakers * 1.5 * stationary spy * state religion * trade route * culture * distance * epp differential

Communism: 4368*1.50*0.5*0.6 (now that Mao has switched to Buddhism) *1.0*0.50*1.04*1.08 (current level) = 1,104 :espionage:

We currently have 1274 :espionage:

on him, so we have more than enough even if Mao puts more epp on us, moving the 108% slightly higher. Don't forget to swith epp to Roosevelt when you start your turnset, bbp.

Other random thoughts as I look at the save:

Be careful with the GPro. We don't want to accidentally trigger a GA and use up our coveted GE...
Roosevelt has 340 gold. Should we give him Philosophy for it?
Biology makes farms kick butt. Cities that aren't going to run a bunch specialists should start converting some farms to workshops so that we can build wealth and keep our slider up. Workshops will get even better once we steal Guilds from Roosy too. It looks like LC has made some progress on this front.
Once Globe Theater is done in GPFarm, we will want to turn some of those workshops back to farms... That will enable us to draft almost non-stop while continually growing our population back. Nice work on theaters and getting GT going so quickly, LC.
I was wondering when Cuba would get a hammer tile to work... Good job again, LC.
In Rheims we're workshopping over one farm in the south while farming a grassland tile in the north...
Thanks for labeling the ice ball locations. We only need 5 though, right? Wait, you've only labeled 5 but you skipped number 2. Never mind.
I don't know that we want to settle the 3 fur + marble city. If not, we could put one iceball over there.
Your Iceball #6 with culture expansion will make it difficult for our warrior pump to get its warriors out... Better may be to put an iceball 1N of the marble by the furs rather than at #6. Although, I presume that we'll have plenty of extra military police after our warring phase to eliminate the need to build warrior MPs.
Iceball #4 could move 2N from its current location.
If we ever do settle Silver City (a long time ago it was giong to be our third city ), should we move it to the tundra tile 1E of the silver? That would allow us to build a grassland farm so that the city can grow and still work the silver mine.
Are the additional galleys for the Roosevelt campaign?
Should BCool Island build a fishing boat (3 turns) for Crabbes western crab? Or is the carvel for circumnavigation more important now? We should be able to get it by buying maps, right?
We could get two muskets to Lyons using a galley. I think we want to raze Lyons, right? That will allow us to set up the northern city-gift chain including Chengdu, Hangzhou, 3S of Kamchatka and Trojan City for Churchill...
Northern Trojan City is 9 tiles from Moscow. Galley City is 5 tiles from Moscow and has a 1.06 distance factor. St Nicks is 3.5 tiles and has a 1.04 distance factor. A assume the northern Trojan City would have a distance factor of 1.12 or so. We should test this before we actually make it happen. I'd like to do it soon. We may actually be able to steal Guilds and Banking and win the Economics race...
If we're going to draft an army and steal a lot of techs, I assume that we'll stay in Nationalism, right? Not being in Bureacracy is costing us 20 base and 28 base while saving us 31 in civics costs. Nationalism is also giving us the 25% bonus and 2 from the barracks.
Are we giong make a quick dip into Slavery/OR or stay in CS/Pacifism? We could finish the Taj in 7 or 8 turns, so we could have a short whipping cycle if needed.
I assume our plan is to get Mao down to 3 cities and steal Communism ASAP, right? Then we go down on Churchill?
BTW, we are working exactly 31 water tiles right now. So the Colossus is not giving us the bajillion commerce/turn that LC promised...

EDIT: How is the test game coming along.

babybluepants · Dec 1, 2010

Got it!

LowtherCastle said:
Roosy captures Xian!!!

Way to go, Roos! So, we managed to get Mao down to 4, but not 3 cities on schedule. That kinda sucks. Perhaps we should just try CF-ing and gifting - maybe it miraculously works.

Edit: xpost w Mitchum

babybluepants · Dec 1, 2010

Mitchum said:
Be careful with the GPro. We don't want to accidentally trigger a GA and use up our coveted GE...

Mitchum said:
Roosevelt has 340 gold. Should we give him Philosophy for it?

Philo or Optics? Don't really care which.

Mitchum said:
In Rheims we're workshopping over one farm in the south while farming a grassland tile in the north...

Kinda makes sense for chain irrigation north.

Mitchum said:
If we're going to draft an army and steal a lot of techs, I assume that we'll stay in Nationalism, right? Not being in Bureacracy is costing us 20 base and 28 base while saving us 31 in civics costs. Nationalism is also giving us the 25% bonus and 2 from the barracks.

Are we giong make a quick dip into Slavery/OR or stay in CS/Pacifism? We could finish the Taj in 7 or 8 turns, so we could have a short whipping cycle if needed.

I wanna think about potentially running Theo and/or Police State for a while. I think we definitely wanna stay in Caste now, for spec slots and workshops. No? Nationhood for a while (end of next golden age, I would think).

babybluepants · Dec 1, 2010

Ok, this is quite complex now. I'll need some time (a day) for a PPP. You guys throw around ideas...

Mitchum · Dec 1, 2010

In a nutshell, I think our short-to-mid-term plan should be:

Get Mao down to three cities and steal Communism -> Revolt to State Property when convenient -> Iceball the poor bastard
Set up Trojan City to steal techs from Roosy. We may need to take from Mao and give to Roosy to make this happen quickly. We should be able to steal a lot of techs this way, so we shouldn't delay this.
Use the espionage slider rather than the science slider while in Nationhood to rack up on Roosy while we're getting the 25% bonus.
Tech Steel for cannons.
Set up GPFarm as a drafting machine and draft an army of muskets (plus cannons) for our next war. Churchill would be logistically easier but Roosy's land is more desirable??? BTW, I typically perfer to take down the leading civ first when possible like you.

I'm sure that I missed something, but that's all I've got right now...

If you can get all of this done, then my turnset should be quite easy. :cool:

babybluepants · Dec 1, 2010

Edit; nvm.

bcool · Dec 1, 2010

If we're going to draft an army and steal a lot of techs, I assume that we'll stay in Nationalism, right? Not being in Bureacracy is costing us 20 base and 28 base while saving us 31 in civics costs. Nationalism is also giving us the 25% bonus and 2 from the barracks.

Nationhood saves us 31 :gold:

* inflation = 40 :gold:

and the hammers are not base :hammers:

But yes bureaucracy is a bit better at research. We might want a dip into bureaucracy to finish Steel and before the Globe Theater drafting begins.

Philo or Optics? Don't really care which.

I think Philo makes a little more sense, makes a naval grab of Washington for the GLH a small possibility for a bit longer. Prevents Washington from colonizing any island a bit longer?

We may actually be able to steal Guilds and Banking and win the Economics race...

rosey just got a great merchant I assume that was economics

BTW, we are working exactly 31 water tiles right now. So the Colossus is not giving us the bajillion commerce/turn that LC promised...

We still have 30+ turns of massive expansion without any need to research astronomy...

babybluepants · Dec 1, 2010

Random initial thoughts:

Do we need more theaters? Are we intending to run culture slider?
Harbors? Cuba could probably use one more than a theater, for instance.
More barracks? Are we only using Moscow, Fish & GP? We could certainly draft a unit per city kinda thing.
How does the worker force feel, LC? Should we up the number anytime soon?
Caravel: Bermuda could be a turn ahead of Bcool Island, I think.
National Park? Ironworks? Kremlin? Intelligence Agencies?
Rice to Churchill for 1gpt
Philosophy to Roosevelt for 340g
When do we wanna finish Taj? I think we should go all out until it's 1t away, then think about the timing.
Lyons: Churchill might be able to take it before we steal, but I'll try with the musket and axe. DOW this turn and move to hill with Churchill's stack.
China: capture Guangzhou @ T+3? Then CF, gift St Nick and steal. We should try to steal Changdu if possible - it's a good city.
GP Farm: farm a sugar? Re-farm some tiles. We should be almost able to regrow in 1t at any pop as long as we're working the food reso + grass farms with all citizens.
Pac: 43gpt * 1.29 = 55gpt - this will increase quickly. Should we run some Theo here? It will cost us 25gpt * 1.29 = 32gpt, so immediate savings of 23gpt + more soon. And we get two-promo drafted units.
Police State? Could be useful for a bit, but not so much if we're not spamming from many cities. I wouldn't...

SGOTM 12 - One Short Straw

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