LowtherCastle
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Chruchill has gone WHEOOHRN and has no cash to bribe. His SoD is next to Marseilles and he could DoW us at any time. This is worrisome. Can you check to see when he turned, bbp?
SGOTM 12 - One Short Straw
- Thread starter AlanH
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Great new on taking Chengdu. I agree that we can leave Huangxhou to Rooservelt, but we might want to ask him to attack it every turn, just in case he goes after Nanjing instead. This would also allow us to move our main stack closer to Churchill's stack just in case he attacks us, though as France is his worst enemy he will probably be going for him instead.
It's possible Churchill may have settled the GM in Marseilles instead of using it for a trade mission. As we are so far behind in tech/esponage do we want to reconsider building an intelligence agency in Moscow? We could delay the Kremlin in Bermuda to build another intelligence agency there. In other cities I think we should delay other non-critical infastructure in favour of intelligence agencies. I think we can do this in Bahamas/Bananas/GP farm/fish(if market finished before grocer becomes available)/Rheims/Siberia (as we are somewhat behind in espionage we could afford to slightly delay the cities we are going to gift to Rooservelt)
We still have several cities without courthouses, after intelligence agencies these are probably the most useful buildings we can build in most of our cities that don't already have one.
If we are going to build the Forbidden Palace in Beijing/Shanghai perhaps we should start it fairly soon. Given our maintenance costs this will probably help us more than anything else those cities can build in the long term.
I agree that we can delay the attack on Lyons for 2T.
It's possible Churchill may have settled the GM in Marseilles instead of using it for a trade mission. As we are so far behind in tech/esponage do we want to reconsider building an intelligence agency in Moscow? We could delay the Kremlin in Bermuda to build another intelligence agency there. In other cities I think we should delay other non-critical infastructure in favour of intelligence agencies. I think we can do this in Bahamas/Bananas/GP farm/fish(if market finished before grocer becomes available)/Rheims/Siberia (as we are somewhat behind in espionage we could afford to slightly delay the cities we are going to gift to Rooservelt)
We still have several cities without courthouses, after intelligence agencies these are probably the most useful buildings we can build in most of our cities that don't already have one.
If we are going to build the Forbidden Palace in Beijing/Shanghai perhaps we should start it fairly soon. Given our maintenance costs this will probably help us more than anything else those cities can build in the long term.
I agree that we can delay the attack on Lyons for 2T.
Missed that, damn. T-2 (1230AD). Edit: too many red fists...
His stack was in neutral territory between Orleans, Rheims and Nanjing that turn. Odd move towards Marseilles. This is very worrisome...
Could we possibly cancel the 5gpt banana deal and then ask for 1gpt? Would that immediately give him reso-trade money?
If he was after us - Rheims would be the most likely target, right?
LowtherCastle
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That's one possibility. I was just thinking of gifting him 1g, then demanding it back. I think it would show up as available. Whatver works, but better to cancel the pigs for 1gpt, right?
Actually, I think you should go ahead and do a mini-action as soon as you can do it, today some time. This has a major impact on our planning. I think we need to
1) Get a 10t DoP with Churchill, and
2) Revolt to State Property
That will make it much easier to plan the upcoming turns. The +10% hammers per city makes the math different from what we're used to. For example, 23 base hammers is optimal rather than 24, etc.
LowtherCastle
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I simply have no idea what the mechanics on that are. Part of his choice of DoW-target is resource tiles that he wants, but I have no idea what city he targets. Rheims surely would seem to be most logical, but in that Deity BOTM where we were on the landmass with England, they sent a SoD that went marching past one city direct to the one city to the south that had all sorts of resources.
Anyway, if he DoWs us, it pretty much game over, so that just can't happen.
Save uploaded. I gave him 1gpt, canceled pigs and canceled banana in succession - didn't work. Maybe next turn? Though I'm pretty sure Gandhi had it immediately, earlier in the set when I canceled his deal.
Why would it be game over? We'll lose a city maybe and we have quite a few of those.
LowtherCastle
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Okay. I have never experienced this. My hunch is that this means he's in financial difficulties. That's really bad because that's the major X-factor in causing AIs to DoW. They DoW to get out of financial trouble.
But again, I have no idea about the details of the mechanics. My guess is that we'd jsut waste our money gifting him more cash.
But again, I have no idea about the details of the mechanics. My guess is that we'd jsut waste our money gifting him more cash.
I don't think it's that bad, we were planning to DOW him shortly anyway. If he attacks Rheims we let him take it and then annihilate his stack with our CR maces/trebs from the China front. It may be inconvenient but losing a city like that for a few turns but is not a major problem.
If that stack was going to attack us immediately it would have done so as soon as it reached the border, which suggests to me that he is either sending it up to attack the northern french city, or he is sending it to a rally point in his main territory before starting a war, in either case I think that the chances are that we won't have to face an immediate war with Churchill, and if we do I think we can deal with it with relatively modest losees.
The only thing he could do which would really hurt us would be too attack pigs-but this is exceptionally unlikely and as we can draft a musket from GP farm(I think we should have more farms than workshops there to allow it to regrow every turn-We can afford to delay the National Park), and have emergency draft capabilities in other cities I think we could destroy his stack before he could take it.
LowtherCastle
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I assume the cities he'd accept are the same he consider attacking. THere are nine of them...
Shanghai: 6 resources
Orleans: 5 res, incl. iron
Rheims: 5 res, incl. stone
GP Farm: 5 res
Paris: 5 res
Pigs: 4 res
Beijing 4 res
Bananas: 3 res
Guangzhou: 2 res
I suppose most likely are Orleans or Rheims. Orleans has his iron, Rheims is closer to his capital.
1. Both are within two turns of each other so we can jump back and forth.
2. Both can build walls in 2t, then castles in 3-4t.
I guess we might be able to hold them.
I think we should:
1. spy at Nanjing thoroughly investigate Nanjing city and south to locate any possible horse archers.
2. If none, the musket and treb at Shanghai can immediately move to halfway between Orleans and Rheims.
3. Get two galleys moved to the GP Farm-Marseilles area for transporting muskets from GP to Marseilles 1 per turn. If he DoWs, they'll teleport somewhere close.
4. Let's put that musket that just left GP within two tiles of Marseilles, but not next to it.
5. We have two workers with available turns now that can immediately road Marseilles-1SW. IF they don't get eaten, road Marseilles 2S next.
6. Attack Mao's catapult with our catapult, then kill it off with el Cid (assuming 99+% odds), then move all our units toward Nanjing. They'll heal when then get a chance, in some city along the way, if they get a chance.
7. If CHurchill makes a demand IT, cave.
8. Anything else you can think of.
LowtherCastle
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My thought exactly. We were gonna deal with the stack somehow in about 5t anyway (not that I'm too sure about how on that timeline). It would be nice to know where (I would typically be certain of Rheims, except that Marseilles makes the map situation strange), so that we can at least fortify a bit and have him suicide some units.The movement's been weird. He was parked in Orleans, then moved south in our territory on T182, then SW out of our territory on T183 (going into WHEOOHRN), then straight east towards Marseilles. I can't interpret that. He could just be parking his stack in Marseilles for some turns, because he's not ready to go yet?
bcool
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How do you ask a civilization to target a specific city?
It is often easier to kill a stack when it is on the move, so Churchill attacking us probably will be easier to deal with then a massive fortified stack in Marseilles. I see that is could be very bad if he declares soon but that doesn't seem likely as others have pointed out. (since His stack left Marseilles)
Do we want to build a few 5 xp muskets in Moscow/Fish/Paris to help with stack busting?
It is often easier to kill a stack when it is on the move, so Churchill attacking us probably will be easier to deal with then a massive fortified stack in Marseilles. I see that is could be very bad if he declares soon but that doesn't seem likely as others have pointed out. (since His stack left Marseilles)
Do we want to build a few 5 xp muskets in Moscow/Fish/Paris to help with stack busting?
1. There shouldn't be any HA's. I killed the one built in Nanjing on T180-1. It was 3-4t from building another when I captured Guangzhou, disconnecting his horses. The spy has been peaking in for movement north out of Nanjing, but I didn't wanna leave it in Chinese territory at end of turn, since I'm pretty sure he has nothing but a few LB's there.
7. Why? If he's in war prep already, what do we gain by this?
LowtherCastle
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I found this from klarius, SG10:
If I counted correctly
We ARE a land target of CHurchill. THis is not EPIC, but NORMAL. So I interpret this to mean that Churchill would not DoW us for a minimum of 3 turns. In other words, 3 turns after WHEOOHRN, when his SoD is at our border, he will DoW. That would explain why he didn't last time it was at our border. That would explain why he WOULD DoW us in the upcoming IT or the one thereafter if the code forces him to be at our borders for 1t.
bcool
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If we are about to be at war with Churchill, Steel as soon as possible at any reasonable cost should be a priority right? With a cannon or 2 any stack can be destroyed pretty easily.
Can we demand gold from Gandhi or is it too soon since the last time? Maybe even trading for it?
Build wealth in a number of cities so we can go 100% science? (Just until we get Steel)
Can we demand gold from Gandhi or is it too soon since the last time? Maybe even trading for it?
Build wealth in a number of cities so we can go 100% science? (Just until we get Steel)
LowtherCastle
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You're right. This is part of the code prior to WHEOOHRN.
Churchill can DoW us next turn and move his stack to Orleans-SE.
Merry Christmas. What's your plan, Santy Claus?
RRRaskolnikov
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I am proud of you bbp
@LC: if u had joined OSS a few games earlier (well you wouldn't have won as many medals but I digress), you wouldn't fear this situation so badly ... once you have lost a city to monarch barbies in a SGOTM, you can accept everything. Very good mental training.
Though,
I hope you won't loose anything, as I trust you guys to bring this baby home! Good luck as always. (and I hope you won't get any pb with the ctd)
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